I like Murray a lot, also respect the hell out of a guy who tore his ACL and stayed in the game... that's the kind of toughness our QB room has been lacking. 

 

My friend tore his ACL in a basketball game in HS and stayed in and played the rest of the game. I think i want him as the jags QB! Tough!

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Shock the world

Tebow is left handed but nice try

 

Haha, nice catch.  I didn't even notice.  It still may be him, but who knows.  Doubtful.

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Ok his arm strength is greater than (IMO) or at the very least equal to that of Bridgewater, he has similar size a build to Bridgewater, his accuracy is very good and he is one of the best in this class when it comes to placing the ball where he wants it (I think you are referring to completion percentage which is also good). And as far as record goes I am not going to judge a QB on a record. That's like when people say based on the Talent TBs team had and where they were ranked pre-season that Louisville should have gone undefeated.....

 

Also he probably has the fastest release of any QB in this draft. Now we get to pocket presence. He is not a good as Bridgewater when it goes to that at this point in their careers, but he is a solid decision maker and does know how to move in the pocket.

 

All I am saying, is if he has a "whole bunch of average traits", then Bridgewater has a whole bunch of average traits as well, and any other QB in this draft for that matter.

 

I disagree with almost everything here.  And I fail to see how someone 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier is similar size.  Bridgewater's size is where a quarterback should be at the minimum... And Murray is even smaller.  I guess since there's no metric, its hard to show you anything besides the tape of who's arm is stronger, and if you've already looked at it and you can't see then there is nothing I can do to convince you how much better of an arm Bridgewater has than Murray.

 

How is this turning into a comparison to Bridgewater anyways?  It's not about Bridgewater.  Its about Murray lacking any distinguishing qualities to make him more than a career backup.

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I disagree with almost everything here.  And I fail to see how someone 2 inches taller and 10 pounds heavier is similar size.  Bridgewater's size is where a quarterback should be at the minimum... And Murray is even smaller.  I guess since there's no metric, its hard to show you anything besides the tape of who's arm is stronger, and if you've already looked at it and you can't see then there is nothing I can do to convince you how much better of an arm Bridgewater has than Murray.

 

How is this turning into a comparison to Bridgewater anyways?  It's not about Bridgewater.  Its about Murray lacking any distinguishing qualities to make him more than a career backup.

Bridgewater officially came in at his pro day  6' 2" 208.....Aaron Murray at his pro day was 6' 1/2" and 207 pounds.....I think that is a similar build.

 

My point of comparing him to Bridgewater was because he doesn't exactly have the most elite traits either. His only real trait that stands out is his pre snap reads...thats pretty much what I was getting at.

 

As far as the arm strength thing. Bridgewater has an average arm, I was only stating at the very least Murray is the same....we can debate on end on who has the stronger arm, but if we actually tested it they are probably the same as far as that goes.

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My point of comparing him to Bridgewater was because he doesn't exactly have the most elite traits either. His only real trait that stands out is his pre snap reads...thats pretty much what I was getting at.

 

 

 

Teddy doesn't have the most elite physical traits, but like Peyton says 90% of a play happens before the snap occurs. I'd say elite pre snap might be the most important trait to have, and Teddy is as good at that as any QB in a long time. 

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Teddy doesn't have the most elite physical traits, but like Peyton says 90% of a play happens before the snap occurs. I'd say elite pre snap might be the most important trait to have, and Teddy is as good at that as any QB in a long time. 

 

Ok and while he might excel at that more than any QB in this class...Its not like Aaron Murray didn't dissect defense pre snap either. He may not have called his own protections but he had some responsibilities pre snap and made alot of good decisions/reads esp this last year.

 

And his release is Elite level. I am not saying he is as good of a prospect as Teddy, but he isn't a scrub either. I think people are putting as much weight in "him not winning BIG GAMES" as people were saying TB "didn't face good competition". Both of which have nothing to do with evaluating a QB.

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Ok and while he might excel at that more than any QB in this class...Its not like Aaron Murray didn't dissect defense pre snap either. He may not have called his own protections but he had some responsibilities pre snap and made alot of good decisions/reads esp this last year.

 

And his release is Elite level. I am not saying he is as good of a prospect as Teddy, but he isn't a scrub either. I think people are putting as much weight in "him not winning BIG GAMES" as people were saying TB "didn't face good competition". Both of which have nothing to do with evaluating a QB.

I've never said anything about the latter quotations. I evaluate all players with as much disregard for both opponent and surrounding talent as possible. 

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I've never said anything about the latter quotations. I evaluate all players with as much disregard for both opponent and surrounding talent as possible. 

I never said you did.....

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It's not bad, but it means that if you have a ton of it you probably aren't going to have as much growth potential. I'm trying to explain to TMD why Murray isn't a good developmental QB prospect.

I don't necessarily agree with this. I would think you want a qb to play and have as much experience as possible. Seeing defenses and being in situations only comes from playing a lot. The qb position is more about consistency then through experience playing at an elite level versus finding a magic switch and being elite from day one. This is how I've seen it happen for most qbs

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Bridgewater officially came in at his pro day  6' 2" 208.....Aaron Murray at his pro day was 6' 1/2" and 207 pounds.....I think that is a similar build.

 

 

At the combine, Bridgewater was 6201 and Murray was 6004.  Murray was 207 and Bridgewater was 214.  One knock on Bridgewater is his size and frame.  Murray is even smaller.  Manziel was 5116 and 207 pounds.  Murray is closer to Manziel's size than Bridgewater's.

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I don't necessarily agree with this. I would think you want a qb to play and have as much experience as possible. Seeing defenses and being in situations only comes from playing a lot. The qb position is more about consistency then through experience playing at an elite level versus finding a magic switch and being elite from day one. This is how I've seen it happen for most qbs

Right, but if you have 52 starts of high level experience you just aren't going to get much better at it, especially when you are pretty limited otherwise. If you have a QB who is raw and/or inexperienced there is naturally more room for growth. I'm not arguing for the raw QB over the experienced QB, I just simply wouldn't use the term 'developmental QB' for the experienced one. People use the dev QB term for any QB taken later in the draft and it's just not accurate in many cases.

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If I still did my long form evaluations for some guest blogs like I did the last two years, my evaluation on Murray would have looked a lot like this one. Average across the board, solid backup/spot starter. Arif is one of the more respected twitter draftniks around too so it should really mean more than my brief opinions on here. 

 

http://vikingsterritory.com/2014/uncateg...ron-murray

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Right, but if you have 52 starts of high level experience you just aren't going to get much better at it, especially when you are pretty limited otherwise. If you have a QB who is raw and/or inexperienced there is naturally more room for growth. I'm not arguing for the raw QB over the experienced QB, I just simply wouldn't use the term 'developmental QB' for the experienced one. People use the dev QB term for any QB taken later in the draft and it's just not accurate in many cases.

In the spirit of this statement I can agree with this

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I dont think he is a developmental qb. Let him sit about half way through yhe season and he will be ready

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we should draft him if he's better than Henne.  He doesn't have to be "elite" or franchise material, but if he's better than Henne, pull the trigger in the 4th or 5th

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we should draft him if he's better than Henne.  He doesn't have to be "elite" or franchise material, but if he's better than Henne, pull the trigger in the 4th or 5th

 

Agreed

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Right, but if you have 52 starts of high level experience you just aren't going to get much better at it, especially when you are pretty limited otherwise. If you have a QB who is raw and/or inexperienced there is naturally more room for growth. I'm not arguing for the raw QB over the experienced QB, I just simply wouldn't use the term 'developmental QB' for the experienced one. People use the dev QB term for any QB taken later in the draft and it's just not accurate in many cases.

This is not meant in any way to be a shot to you. However playing UCONN does not compare at all to playing a SF, or a Seattle defense. I don't care if he started 52 games, he's still a project. There's a bunch

of qb's in this draft who have just as many starts, and you continue to use itagainst them as career backup types. Just continues to show, despite your claiming otherwise- there is a major bias involved

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This is not meant in any way to be a shot to you. However playing UCONN does not compare at all to playing a SF, or a Seattle defense. I don't care if he started 52 games, he's still a project. There's a bunch

of qb's in this draft who have just as many starts, and you continue to use itagainst them as career backup types. Just continues to show, despite your claiming otherwise- there is a major bias involved

Career starts has little to do with whether I think they will be a starter or backup in the NFL...but it is a relevant indicator as to whether a QB has much growth potential left. 

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This is not meant in any way to be a shot to you. However playing UCONN does not compare at all to playing a SF, or a Seattle defense. I don't care if he started 52 games, he's still a project. There's a bunch

of qb's in this draft who have just as many starts, and you continue to use itagainst them as career backup types. Just continues to show, despite your claiming otherwise- there is a major bias involved

 

He's talking about Aaron Murray having 52 starts, not Teddy Bridgewater.  I think you are completely misreading the entire conversation.

 

Along the lines of UConn's defense not being Seattle or SF's defense - duhh.. Thirty other NFL teams' defenses aren't even that good.  However, if you are meaning to slight Uconn's defense, the 2012 defense was extremely good.  It was one of the best in the country.  It was loaded with NFL talent.  Dwayne Gratz, Blidi Wreh-Wilson, Sio Moore, Trevardo Williams, Yawin Smallwood, Shamar Stephen... These players were or are currently all top NFL prospects.  That's 6 players from one defense that will go in the top 4 rounds of the draft.    

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He's talking about Aaron Murray having 52 starts, not Teddy Bridgewater.  I think you are completely misreading the entire conversation.

 

Along the lines of UConn's defense not being Seattle or SF's defense - duhh.. Thirty other NFL teams' defenses aren't even that good.  However, if you are meaning to slight Uconn's defense, the 2012 defense was extremely good.  It was one of the best in the country.  It was loaded with NFL talent.  Dwayne Gratz, Blidi Wreh-Wilson, Sio Moore, Trevardo Williams, Yawin Smallwood, Shamar Stephen... These players were or are currently all top NFL prospects.  That's 6 players from one defense that will go in the top 4 rounds of the draft.    

 

He's talking about Aaron Murray having 52 starts, not Teddy Bridgewater.  I think you are completely misreading the entire conversation.

 

Along the lines of UConn's defense not being Seattle or SF's defense - duhh.. Thirty other NFL teams' defenses aren't even that good.  However, if you are meaning to slight Uconn's defense, the 2012 defense was extremely good.  It was one of the best in the country.  It was loaded with NFL talent.  Dwayne Gratz, Blidi Wreh-Wilson, Sio Moore, Trevardo Williams, Yawin Smallwood, Shamar Stephen... These players were or are currently all top NFL prospects.  That's 6 players from one defense that will go in the top 4 rounds of the draft.    

Thanks for the input, however im not surprised you missed my point! Right now I have no intrest with an argument with a clueless agenda poster.

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