I don't mean to sound racist and I don't consider this racist, because I'm white too, but seriously. When is the last time a white RB has done anything in the NFL? John Riggins was the last significant true RB who was caucasian and that was in the early 80's. Every few years, a white RB gets drafted and draws some hype and then they flop in the pros. Remember Toby Gerhart? He came from the exact same Stanford system. I don't want some "novelty" at RB. I want someone with the potential to be a star at the position. It's time to get serious. This draft will be loaded with big, fast RB's and we can't afford to pass on them. I can almost guarantee McCaffrey will be an NFL disappointment. This is not like the black QB debate. Black QB's have proven they can successfully play in today's NFL. Caucasian RB's cannot. 

 

Any time someone starts a sentence with "I don't mean to sound racist and I don't consider this racist..." 100% of the time it's followed with a racist statement.  

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Did I say it wasn't risky? Everything is a risk. I just consider Mannion a lot less risky as a band aid until the 2018 draft, than burning a 1st or 2nd round pick on a QB in this draft. This incoming QB class is terrible.

Strange value system but okay you do you.

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Strange value system but okay you do you.

 

 

I always do. 

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Yep. Let somebody else take the risk. I'm looking for low risk players. I'm not a gambler.

 

 

As the great Anthony Hopkins once said, "without sacrifice there is no victory." And as the Dealer at a blackjack table at the Bellagio told me "If you aren't willing to lose money, go window shopping."

 

The entirety of the Draft is gambling. If you aren't willing to take a shot on a player then go do something else.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

 

Anyway  - carry on fellas.  I just find the thought of dismissing anyone from consideration about ANYTHING due to color to be some backwards and antiquated thinking. 

But if analyzed correctly, you aren't dismissing someone because of race. You're doing it because of history, trends, odds etc.

 

I'm all for Christian on the Jags btw.

I just wouldn't use a first rounder on the guy.

 

(I also wouldn't use one on Fournette or Cook)

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Any time someone starts a sentence with "I don't mean to sound racist and I don't consider this racist..." 100% of the time it's followed with a racist statement.  

Can white people be racist of white people?

 

Serious question.

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But if analyzed correctly, you aren't dismissing someone because of race. You're doing it because of history, trends, odds etc.

 

I'm all for Christian on the Jags btw.

I just wouldn't use a first rounder on the guy.

 

(I also wouldn't use one on Fournette or Cook)

 

Right, the history, trends, odds etc. of people of that particular skin tone.   It's discriminatory in my mind and seems closed-minded, but like I said, I see your point.  Clearly there is a trend that can't be ignored, but making a hard and fast rule about it is unwise and antiquated. 

 

I'm almost never big on early RB picks and I haven't even watched a full game of McCafferey. I actually have very little opinion on his value.  :teehee:

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Yep. Let somebody else take the risk. I'm looking for low risk players. I'm not a gambler.

 

So a 'low risk' player like Joeckel who was supposed to be a safe pick?

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So a 'low risk' player like Joeckel who was supposed to be a safe pick?

I didn't consider Joeckel a low risk player. It's not about the position. It's about the individual player. Joeckel had the same issues at Texas A&M that he has now. He lacks strength, gets beaten off the line by opposing pass rushers and is a poor run blocker. It's some of the same problems that many Texas A&M OT's share. Everybody has their own evaluations and it's about who I consider to be low risk. Admittedly, there really wasn't many low risk players in that draft, but the top 3 players on my board that year was DeAndre Hopkins, Eric Fisher and Jarvis Jones (I missed on that one.)

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Racial discrimination?

Hardly.

 

Well.. maybe a select few would say "I don't want a white RB because he is white" but it is more along the lines of "white running backs historically aren't anything worth having"

It doesn't make you racist to point out a truth.

 

Mike Alstott, Csonka, Riggins, Woodhead......... I ran out of white RBs that have even been mildly successful...

However we can ramble off loads of black RBs.

 

Why? If it has nothing to do with genetic makeup of race... is it pure happenstance? 

 

I honestly don't have an answer. But to block out the question of whether race has anything to do with a particular skill set is actually kind of silly.

If you think your genetic makeup doesn't alter how fast or strong or smart you are/can be.... well I got nothin for ya.

 

Deeming someone racist or discriminatory when they're are not is the wrong turn, imo.

There is a large swath of territory to be covered between purely genetic racial factors and mere happenstance regarding outcomes.  To the extent that individuals who can effect outcomes have biases-conscious or subconscious (this is a point that WAY too many people miss)-based on race, results that skew racially can occur.  For a long time, blacks were felt to not be cerebral enough to play C and MLB, in addition to QB, and were moved to other positions.  But anyone who has seen or heard about Willie Lanier, Mike Singletary, Ray Donaldson, Dermontti Dawson can tell you it's not true. 

 

The above line of thought triggers a disturbing slippery slope.  If we make presumptions purely on race, then why not make policy based upon race?  As a member of a group associated with negative racial presumptions, I cringe at the thought, because I would be deemed to be athletically superior/intellectually inferior to every counterpart of every other ethnic group.  But anyone who knows me could tell you I am far from physically imposing, and at the risk of sounding immodest, I'm smarter than quite a few people who do not have negative presumptions regarding their intellectual abilities.

 

I believe it is entirely possible/probable that whites are moved to other positions based upon persistent and misguided racial presumptions, just as blacks are.  I cannot be convinced that whites who are athletic enough to play WR and safety are somehow NOT athletic enough to play CB or RB.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Think about your High School football coach, provided you had one...

 

Think about how smart that guy was...

 

Now consider if that guy knew how to truly discriminate quality talent and put it in the best possible environment to succeed even if he had to go against the popular groupthink to do so...

 

High School coaches have an immense impact on a player's career, both positively and negatively.

 

It just saddens me that they also happen to be some of the dumbest and most stubborn people I've ever come across.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

I can't stand the McCaffrey pick. That would be a complete waste. I don't see him doing anything in the pros. Give me D'Onta Foreman, Samaje Perine or Royce Freeman over McCafrey, any day. I love the Elflein pick, but I am almost certain he'll be gone by then. I don't like the idea of trading up to get him though. We end up losing a 5th round pick and we have too many needs to just be burning a pick. I'm not a fan of Dan Skipper either. He's had some really rough games this year and looks to be an inconsistent blocker. I'd much rather get a more consistent player, since that is one of our biggest problem areas. I know very little about Douglas. I haven't scouted the CB's as much as some other positions, but I love the Stevenson pick. We've needed a blocking FB for a while and he's one of the best in the draft. 

 

Overall, there is a lot of hit and miss in this mock. 

Good Thing no one told the Packers this when they grabbed Jordy Nelson in the second round a few years back. Apparently Belichick didn't get the Memo with Welker, Edelman, and Woodhead (who's a poor man's version of McCaffrey IMO) and before his ACL tear in week 2 has been dynamite for the Chargers and Pats. You find football players where you find Football players, there are plenty of concerns about McCaffrey but his race isn't one of them.. OUTTTTAAAAA here with this garbage. 

---

Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

There is a large swath of territory to be covered between purely genetic racial factors and mere happenstance regarding outcomes.  To the extent that individuals who can effect outcomes have biases-conscious or subconscious (this is a point that WAY too many people miss)-based on race, results that skew racially can occur.  For a long time, blacks were felt to not be cerebral enough to play C and MLB, in addition to QB, and were moved to other positions.  But anyone who has seen or heard about Willie Lanier, Mike Singletary, Ray Donaldson, Dermontti Dawson can tell you it's not true. 

 

The above line of thought triggers a disturbing slippery slope.  If we make presumptions purely on race, then why not make policy based upon race?  As a member of a group associated with negative racial presumptions, I cringe at the thought, because I would be deemed to be athletically superior/intellectually inferior to every counterpart of every other ethnic group.  But anyone who knows me could tell you I am far from physically imposing, and at the risk of sounding immodest, I'm smarter than quite a few people who do not have negative presumptions regarding their intellectual abilities.

 

I believe it is entirely possible/probable that whites are moved to other positions based upon persistent and misguided racial presumptions, just as blacks are.  I cannot be convinced that whites who are athletic enough to play WR and safety are somehow NOT athletic enough to play CB or RB.

I dunno.... I guess I live on the slippery slopes as an anti-PC kind of guy....

 

I think healthy debates about science are a good thing. Social and biological.

 

I'm not in favor of making policy based on race, nor am I in favor of drafting based on race.

 

I'm talking pure scientific theories, hypothesis, and analytics.

The numbers don't lie.

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I dunno.... I guess I live on the slippery slopes as an anti-PC kind of guy....


I think healthy debates about science are a good thing. Social and biological.


I'm not in favor of making policy based on race, nor am I in favor of drafting based on race.


I'm talking pure scientific theories, hypothesis, and analytics.

The numbers don't lie.

Its not anti-pc to completely disregard a prospect because of his skin colour, its just dumb.

---

I don't mean to sound racist and I don't consider this racist, because I'm white too, but seriously. When is the last time a white RB has done anything in the NFL? John Riggins was the last significant true RB who was caucasian and that was in the early 80's. Every few years, a white RB gets drafted and draws some hype and then they flop in the pros. Remember Toby Gerhart? He came from the exact same Stanford system. I don't want some "novelty" at RB. I want someone with the potential to be a star at the position. It's time to get serious. This draft will be loaded with big, fast RB's and we can't afford to pass on them. I can almost guarantee McCaffrey will be an NFL disappointment. This is not like the black QB debate. Black QB's have proven they can successfully play in today's NFL. Caucasian RB's cannot.

Woodhead

---

I can't stand the McCaffrey pick. That would be a complete waste. I don't see him doing anything in the pros. Give me D'Onta Foreman, Samaje Perine or Royce Freeman over McCafrey, any day. I love the Elflein pick, but I am almost certain he'll be gone by then. I don't like the idea of trading up to get him though. We end up losing a 5th round pick and we have too many needs to just be burning a pick. I'm not a fan of Dan Skipper either. He's had some really rough games this year and looks to be an inconsistent blocker. I'd much rather get a more consistent player, since that is one of our biggest problem areas. I know very little about Douglas. I haven't scouted the CB's as much as some other positions, but I love the Stevenson pick. We've needed a blocking FB for a while and he's one of the best in the draft.


Overall, there is a lot of hit and miss in this mock.

I agree with all of this

---

Can white people be racist of white people?

 

Serious question.

 

Yes, absolutely.   To say a guy can't be a good running back because he is white is a racist statement.  

---

I dunno.... I guess I live on the slippery slopes as an anti-PC kind of guy....

 

I think healthy debates about science are a good thing. Social and biological.

 

I'm not in favor of making policy based on race, nor am I in favor of drafting based on race.

 

I'm talking pure scientific theories, hypothesis, and analytics.

The numbers don't lie.

 

It's a short cut.   You can't take short cuts in talent evaluation, because you eliminate players from consideration.   I had a friend who told me the Jags should not draft Khalil Mack because he was from the University of Buffalo.   That was a mental short cut that had nothing to do with Mack's actual talent.   People like to say things like, we should only draft players from major schools, or only from the SEC.  Those are short cuts that eliminate great players from consideration.  The Hall of Fame is full of guys from small schools.   Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Deacon Jones. 

 

What if I was needing to hire a mathematician.   Should I say, don't being me any black candidates, only bring be Jewish candidates?  

 

It's not like we have millions of guys who can play NFL football and we need to be efficient in how we select people for evaluation.   We have plenty of time and resources to fully evaluate McCaffrey as a prospective NFL player.  We don't need to eliminate him with some kind of mental short cut like, he's white, let's not even evaluate the guy. 

 

I want to see McCaffrey's 40 time.  I know the guy is a great college football player, but his 40 time will tell me a lot about how he will translate to the next level.  

 

By the way, if you think white people aren't fast, McCaffrey's grandfather won the silver medal in the 100 meter dash in the Olympics.   That was on this mother's side.   His father was an NFL player, and his mother's father was an Olympic sprinter and Duke University's "Athlete of the Century."  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Sime

 

To say, "I don't want him because he's white" just tells me you don't know anything about the guy.  You just know he's a white guy. 

---

It's a short cut.   You can't take short cuts in talent evaluation, because you eliminate players from consideration.   I had a friend who told me the Jags should not draft Khalil Mack because he was from the University of Buffalo.   That was a mental short cut that had nothing to do with Mack's actual talent.   People like to say things like, we should only draft players from major schools, or only from the SEC.  Those are short cuts that eliminate great players from consideration.  The Hall of Fame is full of guys from small schools.   Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Deacon Jones. 

 

What if I was needing to hire a mathematician.   Should I say, don't being me any black candidates, only bring be Jewish candidates?  

 

It's not like we have millions of guys who can play NFL football and we need to be efficient in how we select people for evaluation.   We have plenty of time and resources to fully evaluate McCaffrey as a prospective NFL player.  We don't need to eliminate him with some kind of mental short cut like, he's white, let's not even evaluate the guy. 

 

I want to see McCaffrey's 40 time.  I know the guy is a great college football player, but his 40 time will tell me a lot about how he will translate to the next level.  

 

By the way, if you think white people aren't fast, McCaffrey's grandfather won the silver medal in the 100 meter dash in the Olympics.   That was on this mother's side.   His father was an NFL player, and his mother's father was an Olympic sprinter and Duke University's "Athlete of the Century."  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Sime

 

To say, "I don't want him because he's white" just tells me you don't know anything about the guy.  You just know he's a white guy. 

   ^

   |

   |

This. All of this.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

Slippery slope, indeed. 

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