I would still be trying to shop Josh Allen out before the deadline. Would look to try and get a 2nd and 3rd RD pick for him. Maybe even just a first round pick if a team is willing to fork it over. Which I doubt. It's not like he's an unstoppable force off the edge. He might be more effective on a more stout or established defensive front.

I just think going into next year, this team is going to have a lot of positions to backfill. They still have to make several decisions involving Jawaan Taylor at RT, Walker Little in general, the current TE room, the WR position. Griffin at CB, etc. Tying up a big contract on Josh Allen, who, let's be honest, hasn't really show cased any level of elite pass rushing consistently since his rookie year, just isn't good business.

Ship him off. Get what you can. Maybe package some picks up in April of next year to go up and get you that WR that Lawrence needs on the outside to win the 50/50 contests or his new red zone target. Maybe land you a coveted pass catching threat at the TE position or another promising edge rusher or nose tackle. This team isn't "a few good players" away from being dominate.

They still need a lot of work done. That work has to be mostly done via the draft.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

No flicking way am I trading Josh Allen right now.

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No flicking way am I trading Josh Allen right now.

Why not? He had 10.5 sacks as a rookie and he's currently at 10.5 sacks over the last one and a half years of football. We just watched him have ZERO impact two weeks in a row against two beat up offensive lines. Why tie up any significant cap space on a guy that's now had four and half years of football to show you that his rookie year wasn't a fluke?

He's just not that good. I would rather them save, more than likely, probably what will amount to about 12% - 15% of your cap space going into next year and beyond when they could use that same amount of money to potentially double dip at other positions of need. Again, we're going to have a lot of holes to backfill next off season. 

Do you really want a significant amount of your cap space tied to a guy that's just played, well, like a guy? He's just been a guy man. He'll have one major game for you per year. That's his average. He's not consistent. He's a groundhog pass rusher. No thanks. It's time to move on and get the picks while you can with a young QB in need of more playmakers to tack onto your PPG.

Even with Allen, this defense sucks.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

No flicking way am I trading Josh Allen right now.

Why not? He had 10.5 sacks as a rookie and he's currently at 10.5 sacks over the last one and a half years of football. We just watched him have ZERO impact two weeks in a row against two beat up offensive lines. Why tie up any significant cap space on a guy that's now had four and half years of football to show you that his rookie year wasn't a fluke?

He's just not that good. I would rather them save, more than likely, probably what will amount to about 12% - 15% of your cap space going into next year and beyond when they could use that same amount of money to potentially double dip at other positions of need. Again, we're going to have a lot of holes to backfill next off season. 

Do you really want a significant amount of your cap space tied to a guy that's just played, well, like a guy? He's just been a guy man. He'll have one major game for you per year. That's his average. He's not consistent. He's a groundhog pass rusher. No thanks. It's time to move on and get the picks while you can with a young QB in need of more playmakers to tack onto your PPG.

Even with Allen, this defense sucks.

I think our lack of pass rush on the interior is one of the main reason our edge guys hasn't been able to do much.  Ive seen a lot of time where Walker and Allen pressure the QB and all he has to do is step up becuase there is zero push or pressure from the interior.  If we had a good DT that could put pressure up the middle it would help a ton.  That's our biggest need by far imo on either side of the ball

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I love this forum.  It’s all “[BLEEP] you, your opinion sucks!”  “No, [BLEEP] you, your opinion sucks!”, but I’m here for it.

I take great offense to your petty assertion concerning the petty nature of the petty disagreements playing out here on this once slightly-better-but-still-not-very-reputable repository of petty disagreement and discussion!! 



(Also, there is not a trade for one player out there that would make this team a playoff contender this year without crippling our draft capital, and then it still wouldn't be any guarantee. We are one injury away from disaster at multiple spots.)

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I would still be trying to shop Josh Allen out before the deadline. Would look to try and get a 2nd and 3rd RD pick for him. Maybe even just a first round pick if a team is willing to fork it over. Which I doubt. It's not like he's an unstoppable force off the edge. He might be more effective on a more stout or established defensive front.

I just think going into next year, this team is going to have a lot of positions to backfill. They still have to make several decisions involving Jawaan Taylor at RT, Walker Little in general, the current TE room, the WR position. Griffin at CB, etc. Tying up a big contract on Josh Allen, who, let's be honest, hasn't really show cased any level of elite pass rushing consistently since his rookie year, just isn't good business.

Ship him off. Get what you can. Maybe package some picks up in April of next year to go up and get you that WR that Lawrence needs on the outside to win the 50/50 contests or his new red zone target. Maybe land you a coveted pass catching threat at the TE position or another promising edge rusher or nose tackle. This team isn't "a few good players" away from being dominate.

They still need a lot of work done. That work has to be mostly done via the draft.

Horrible post.

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Why not? He had 10.5 sacks as a rookie and he's currently at 10.5 sacks over the last one and a half years of football. We just watched him have ZERO impact two weeks in a row against two beat up offensive lines. Why tie up any significant cap space on a guy that's now had four and half years of football to show you that his rookie year wasn't a fluke?

He's just not that good. I would rather them save, more than likely, probably what will amount to about 12% - 15% of your cap space going into next year and beyond when they could use that same amount of money to potentially double dip at other positions of need. Again, we're going to have a lot of holes to backfill next off season. 

Do you really want a significant amount of your cap space tied to a guy that's just played, well, like a guy? He's just been a guy man. He'll have one major game for you per year. That's his average. He's not consistent. He's a groundhog pass rusher. No thanks. It's time to move on and get the picks while you can with a young QB in need of more playmakers to tack onto your PPG.

Even with Allen, this defense sucks.

I think our lack of pass rush on the interior is one of the main reason our edge guys hasn't been able to do much.  Ive seen a lot of time where Walker and Allen pressure the QB and all he has to do is step up becuase there is zero push or pressure from the interior.  If we had a good DT that could put pressure up the middle it would help a ton.  That's our biggest need by far imo on either side of the ball

This. Thank you.

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Josh Allen is the 10th best Edge defender in terms of pass rush win rate in the league as of yesterday. But we should trade him lol

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3453...yers-teams

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Josh Allen is the 10th best Edge defender in terms of pass rush win rate in the league as of yesterday. But we should trade him lol

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3453...yers-teams

We don't have an interior disruptor on this DL. 
At least no one consistently doing so unless coverage keeps the QB looking downfield beyond the average drop-back/release time. 

We've seen Allen thrive with that in place. 

STILL - we do need to see a bit more consistency in pressures from him. He definitely has that "flash for 3 games, disappear for 2 games" arc to his performance. 

I do not want to trade him over that, though.  Still a valuable piece for us IMO.

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Josh Allen is the 10th best Edge defender in terms of pass rush win rate in the league as of yesterday. But we should trade him lol

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3453...yers-teams

We don't have an interior disruptor on this DL. 
At least no one consistently doing so unless coverage keeps the QB looking downfield beyond the average drop-back/release time. 

We've seen Allen thrive with that in place. 

STILL - we do need to see a bit more consistency in pressures from him. He definitely has that "flash for 3 games, disappear for 2 games" arc to his performance. 

I do not want to trade him over that, though.  Still a valuable piece for us IMO.

I agree completely. He's absolutely the best pass rusher on this team and we are not in position to be moving good players

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Keeping Josh Allen is really going to come down to the price tag for me. I don't feel that he's worth more than $10M per year. If his cap hit hovers around the $7.5M - $9.5M per year range I would be content. I just don't want this team getting tied up to where they're paying him $12.5M - $15M per year. Doesn't make any sense.

We invested a boat load of money this off season on defense. Here's my problem. That money was supposed to help ENABLE Allen to be BETTER this year. This was supposed to help him create more plays, create more opportunities and it's been very, very hit or miss. Just frustrating. My argument is that, everyone here keeps arguing that Lawrence needs a "dog" or an "alpha" at receiver on the outside.

You're going to need some draft picks to make some moves to go and get that potentially. This defense has been a liability this year over the last four weeks. Allen plays a hand in that. What if we did have that receiver on the outside that clearly separates or gets downfield? Would you rather have Josh Allen's "Top ten pass rushing" statistics, which, don't translate to actual sacks, forced fumbles or real impact plays.

Or, would you rather have a receiver like Jamar Chase, DaVante Adams, Tyreek Hill, D.K Metcalf or DeAndre Hopkins that is giving your team those extra 7.0 or 10.0 PPG that this team needs. We don't have that right now. We're hoping it'll be Travis Etienne. But, he's out of the backfield. Still has a lot to prove. We're going to need more than that going into next year.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

My best guess is he will ask for at least $18M a year.

He’s pretty good but not elite. No consistency. An interior pass rush is definitely needed but that too is something that we don’t have and needs to be added.

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My best guess is he will ask for at least $18M a year.

He’s pretty good but not elite. No consistency. An interior pass rush is definitely needed but that too is something that we don’t have and needs to be added.

Yeah, we'll see how he finishes the season, but I don't see him getting less than 14mil AAV plus performance incentives that could take it higher.

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My best guess is he will ask for at least $18M a year.

He’s pretty good but not elite. No consistency. An interior pass rush is definitely needed but that too is something that we don’t have and needs to be added.

My best guess is he will ask for at least $18M a year.

He’s pretty good but not elite. No consistency. An interior pass rush is definitely needed but that too is something that we don’t have and needs to be added.

Yeah, we'll see how he finishes the season, but I don't see him getting less than 14mil AAV plus performance incentives that could take it higher.

Anything close to $14M - $18M per year is just gross. That puts him on par with guys like Cameron Jordan, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick and Frank Clark. 

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

My best guess is he will ask for at least $18M a year.

He’s pretty good but not elite. No consistency. An interior pass rush is definitely needed but that too is something that we don’t have and needs to be added.

Yeah, we'll see how he finishes the season, but I don't see him getting less than 14mil AAV plus performance incentives that could take it higher.

Anything close to $14M - $18M per year is just gross. That puts him on par with guys like Cameron Jordan, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick and Frank Clark. 

The beauty of free agency is that some team will think so.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Anything close to $14M - $18M per year is just gross. That puts him on par with guys like Cameron Jordan, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick and Frank Clark. 

The beauty of free agency is that some team will think so.

I agree. Some team will overpay. It’s free agency after all.
The question becomes, will it be the Jags???

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Anything close to $14M - $18M per year is just gross. That puts him on par with guys like Cameron Jordan, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick and Frank Clark. 

The beauty of free agency is that some team will think so.

The beauty of free agency is that some team will think so.

I agree. Some team will overpay. It’s free agency after all.
The question becomes, will it be the Jags???

I hope not. He was selected 7th overall to be the guy. Not the guy you have to go out and keep building around to make him become said guy. It was easy for him to get 10.5 sacks as a rookie because he was able to bounce off of Campbell and Ngakoue. Once those two guys were cleared out and he was asked to fill the voids they left he couldn't do it. 

Hate to say it. But, if he actually did what he was [BLEEP] drafted to do? We probably don't have to take Walker back in April. Maybe you could have taken the CB from Cincinnati. Maybe you could have entertained the idea of trading down and picking up a Guard, Tackle or Receiver for Lawrence. I think that goes unnoticed around here.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

My best guess is he will ask for at least $18M a year.

He’s pretty good but not elite. No consistency. An interior pass rush is definitely needed but that too is something that we don’t have and needs to be added.

Yeah, we'll see how he finishes the season, but I don't see him getting less than 14mil AAV plus performance incentives that could take it higher.

Anything close to $14M - $18M per year is just gross. That puts him on par with guys like Cameron Jordan, Trey Hendrickson, Haason Reddick and Frank Clark. 

Doesn't matter.

Nature of free agency. Guys get paid - especially at his position. 

A team with better cover guys and interior push will see him as worth every penny. 

I personally hope we are one of those teams.

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Why not? He had 10.5 sacks as a rookie and he's currently at 10.5 sacks over the last one and a half years of football. We just watched him have ZERO impact two weeks in a row against two beat up offensive lines. Why tie up any significant cap space on a guy that's now had four and half years of football to show you that his rookie year wasn't a fluke?

He's just not that good. I would rather them save, more than likely, probably what will amount to about 12% - 15% of your cap space going into next year and beyond when they could use that same amount of money to potentially double dip at other positions of need. Again, we're going to have a lot of holes to backfill next off season. 

Do you really want a significant amount of your cap space tied to a guy that's just played, well, like a guy? He's just been a guy man. He'll have one major game for you per year. That's his average. He's not consistent. He's a groundhog pass rusher. No thanks. It's time to move on and get the picks while you can with a young QB in need of more playmakers to tack onto your PPG.

Even with Allen, this defense sucks.

I think our lack of pass rush on the interior is one of the main reason our edge guys hasn't been able to do much.  Ive seen a lot of time where Walker and Allen pressure the QB and all he has to do is step up becuase there is zero push or pressure from the interior.  If we had a good DT that could put pressure up the middle it would help a ton.  That's our biggest need by far imo on either side of the ball

This right here. There is no pressure to collapse the pocket/force QB into the pass rush along the edge.

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Bet we'll have buyer's remorse going into next year. I will be a little fair here. If the offense can get off to faster starts and build a comfortable lead he would probably have more opportunities to tee off on the QB.

Still plenty of football left. He can always come out over the next 10 games and chain together a few 2.0 - 3.0 sack games and that will completely change my stance on him. I just don't like this idea of parading around that he's top ten this or top ten that.

He's got three [BLEEP] sacks guys. That's it. At some point, "getting close" can't be an excuse or reason to break the bank for him. I understand the nature of free agency. Every year the floor is increased and the guys that are already at the top and near the ceiling see the roof come off and they get a little bit more wiggle room to ask for more.

I just hope we don't let a good opportunity slip by us in next year's draft when we clearly have other positions to fill and we just have this "guy" eating up a chunk of our cap space playing just like he's been playing now for the last three years. A "guy".

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Bet we'll have buyer's remorse going into next year. I will be a little fair here. If the offense can get off to faster starts and build a comfortable lead he would probably have more opportunities to tee off on the QB.

Still plenty of football left. He can always come out over the next 10 games and chain together a few 2.0 - 3.0 sack games and that will completely change my stance on him. I just don't like this idea of parading around that he's top ten this or top ten that.

He's got three [BLEEP] sacks guys. That's it. At some point, "getting close" can't be an excuse or reason to break the bank for him. I understand the nature of free agency. Every year the floor is increased and the guys that are already at the top and near the ceiling see the roof come off and they get a little bit more wiggle room to ask for more.

I just hope we don't let a good opportunity slip by us in next year's draft when we clearly have other positions to fill and we just have this "guy" eating up a chunk of our cap space playing just like he's been playing now for the last three years. A "guy".

Sacks isnt the only stat to evaulate him. Get your head out of your [BLEEP].

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