Healthcare. Pffft. What we need are more bombers, tanks, missles, battleships, radar evading cruisers that don't float, gunships...stuff like that so we can go in and kick butt like we did in Afghanistan,Iraq,

Simple..everyone go military. Then there's the VA that'll take care of health issues.

Not saying this ACA is perfect, but to not address healthcare and be the only civilized country to not have it, much less family time, is sad.

To spend the majority of our funds on military to police the world, and leave our own to be on their own is imo a disgrace.

Maybe Obama shouldn't have modeled it like Romneys plan. Nah. Even if it were a Reagan type plan, it was Obama and everything he does is wrong.

Another few months, and the misery will end when Trump/ Cruz take over. They'll fix everything.

Can't wait.

God save us if either of those clowns win the Presidency...

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single payer is the absolutely worse of all the options, it leaves you a market with a total monopoly and trusting that bureaucracy doesn't interfere with medicine. Competition and a true free market system is the only way to naturally control cost and advance medicine. The problem is through insurance companies we've interjected a third party which corrupts true free markets, then we've added government over-regulation which drives up cost and encourages subsidies through third party insurance providers.

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single payer is the absolutely worse of all the options, it leaves you a market with a total monopoly and trusting that bureaucracy doesn't interfere with medicine. Competition and a true free market system is the only way to naturally control cost and advance medicine. The problem is through insurance companies we've interjected a third party which corrupts true free markets, then we've added government over-regulation which drives up cost and encourages subsidies through third party insurance providers.

 

How in the hell will competition work without lives lost while market forces balance?

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

How in the hell will competition work without lives lost while market forces balance?

Lives will always be lost in medicine. Giving the patient options on what procedures and who to perform them is the Best way to limit losses. In a single payer system you have no options only what the single payer will authorize and to be performed by the authorized party. More options is always better than a monopoly.

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Lives will always be lost in medicine. Giving the patient options on what procedures and who to perform them is the Best way to limit losses. In a single payer system you have no options only what the single payer will authorize and to be performed by the authorized party. More options is always better than a monopoly.

 

But lives aren't lost because market forces are balancing out which providers are preferable.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

It seems that those like you who depend on others to care for you are the well trained subservients.

So do you operate on yourself or rely on a doctor?

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But lives aren't lost because market forces are balancing out which providers are preferable.

I don't see how more options would cause more deaths while practicing medicine. Walk me through it

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Lives will always be lost in medicine. Giving the patient options on what procedures and who to perform them is the Best way to limit losses. In a single payer system you have no options only what the single payer will authorize and to be performed by the authorized party. More options is always better than a monopoly.

You have a very limited view of single payer. I guess the better option is to have multiple for-profit options to somehow determine that your risk is too great, and major operations only be a personal consideration after paying exorbitant premiums. Maybe genetic testing of the population is necessary...perhaps that will help the market balance itself out more quickly.

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I don't see how more options would cause more deaths while practicing medicine. Walk me through it

Maybe there is no significant difference in premiums and the options are engaged in an effective price fixing so even though there are "options" none of them are particularly good. I guess death isn't such a bad thing at that point.

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SS (don't know why I can't quote right now)

 

you're referring to the options being insurance companies or (third parties subsidizing medicine). When I say more options are the best solution I am referring to a direct exchange between patient and the provider. ANYTIME a third party is interjected into a transaction the entire premise of free market trade is out the door. Third parties such as insurance companies and government subsidies will always naturally drive the cost up, at the most basic level you have another party which has to be compensated in the least. I'm pointing out or attempting to point out that eliminating third party interference in the patient and doctor equation would be the fastest and most efficient way to reduce cost. Yes it's a radical shift to eliminate insurance for the majority of medical needs but unless we realize that the very institutions we want to control cost are the engines that drive cost we're just chasing our tails.

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Crikey there will be a lot of bankruptcy with your model Eric. Also with no insurance are you going to pay cash before your treatment?

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Btw the article you linked was bunk. The tolles royce is too slow? They completely ingnored the fact that the nhs is failing by its own standards and conveniently left out that on average wait times for emergant care are more than double that of the us model.

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So do you operate on yourself or rely on a doctor?

 

I purchase a service, as I do with everything else. With taxation it's not a free choice and paternalistic in nature. I know you can't understand the difference, but that's how it goes once you've become a house pet.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You have a very limited view of single payer. I guess the better option is to have multiple for-profit options to somehow determine that your risk is too great, and major operations only be a personal consideration after paying exorbitant premiums. Maybe genetic testing of the population is necessary...perhaps that will help the market balance itself out more quickly.

 

We have a single payer system in the US. It's called the VA. You might want to check out what happened there.


 

And not a single person went to jail over it. Very few were even fired (I think it was six and four of those were contemplating retirement*). When a monopoly runs health care (or anything else) there's no incentive for improvement. When the m
onopoly is the government there's also no accountability for failure.

 

EDIT: *The number is apparently 19 as of Feb 2015.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...d-wait-ti/

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

but but but but guys, it's our responsibility to take care of those who cant take care of themselves, even if Uncle Sam is reaching their hands in our pockets and doing it themselves!!!

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We have a single payer system in the US. It's called the VA. You might want to check out what happened there.


And not a single person went to jail over it. Very few were even fired (I think it was six and four of those were contemplating retirement*). When a monopoly runs health care (or anything else) there's no incentive for improvement. When the m
onopoly is the government there's also no accountability for failure.

EDIT: *The number is apparently 19 as of Feb 2015.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/feb/20/robert-mcdonald/va-secretary-claims-900-firings-60-related-wait-ti/'>http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/feb/20/robert-mcdonald/va-secretary-claims-900-firings-60-related-wait-ti/</a>

Why do you conveniently leave out Medicaid/Medicare?

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The VA isn't single payer anyway.  Which is precisely why it takes so long for Veterans to get care.  VA Clinics try to determine if a veteran is even eligible for care in the first place, thus creating long wait times.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

The VA isn't single payer anyway. Which is precisely why it takes so long for Veterans to get care. VA Clinics try to determine if a veteran is even eligible for care in the first place, thus creating long wait times.

Exactly

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Why do you conveniently leave out Medicaid/Medicare?

 

Those are insurance plans.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

The VA isn't single payer anyway.  Which is precisely why it takes so long for Veterans to get care.  VA Clinics try to determine if a veteran is even eligible for care in the first place, thus creating long wait times.  

 

And that extended check out is by government edict. The same (or worse) would be true of universal single payer.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"