C'mon now, Badger's fighting hard to get a good conspiracy out of this. You're just buying into the "agenda"!

I'm not trying to do anything. The youtube video from Ukraine doesnt seem weird to you?

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I'm not trying to do anything. The youtube video from Ukraine doesnt seem weird to you?

 

it's becoming undeniable that Russia or Russian Backed Rebels shot this plane down, what can be debated and I think SHOULD be explored is WHY that plane was there in the first place. Was it diverted to that flight path for a reason? The flight path must have been altered no nation would allow a flight path over a war zone right?

 

There's plenty of things that don't add up about the entire situation but WHO shot it down doesn't appear to be one of them. The most damning evidence has to be the actions of the Rebels after the fact. Taking the bodies, restricting access to investigators, claiming they don't have these missile systems when we now know that's not true.

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it's becoming undeniable that Russia or Russian Backed Rebels shot this plane down, what can be debated and I think SHOULD be explored is WHY that plane was there in the first place. Was it diverted to that flight path for a reason? The flight path must have been altered no nation would allow a flight path over a war zone right?


There's plenty of things that don't add up about the entire situation but WHO shot it down doesn't appear to be one of them. The most damning evidence has to be the actions of the Rebels after the fact. Taking the bodies, restricting access to investigators, claiming they don't have these missile systems when we now know that's not true.

From what I recall the plane changed course due to bad weather.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

From what I recall the plane changed course due to bad weather.

 

that would be the first I've heard of that account, do you remember where you saw that at?

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From what I recall the plane changed course due to bad weather.

Except there was a notice to airmen to not fly over that area. Was there actually bad weather to avoid?

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There have also been reports that Ukrainian fighters were within 3 miles of the aircraft before it went down.

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that would be the first I've heard of that account, do you remember where you saw that at?

The plane might have diverted from its original flight path because of weather, according to CNN.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-map-2014-7'>http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-map-2014-7</a>

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Except there was a notice to airmen to not fly over that area. Was there actually bad weather to avoid?

MH17 wasn't the only one.

As the security situation in Ukraine deteriorated in April, the US Federal Aviation Administration issued a warning to American pilots and airlines operating in the region. The “Notam” (Notice to Airmen) ordered “Exercise extreme caution due to the continuing potential for instability”.


Nevertheless, civil aviation continued to fly over the conflict zone, along airways that normally carry thousands of passengers on dozens of flights each day.

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-why-was-a-passenger-plane-flying-over-a-conflict-zone-in-ukraine-9613412.html'>http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh17-why-was-a-passenger-plane-flying-over-a-conflict-zone-in-ukraine-9613412.html</a>

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

According to reports, the Ukraine can account for every missile in their arsenal.


There is also satellite imagery showing the battery in question coming across the border from Russia, and then two batteries heading back to Russia, one with only 3 missiles.


There is also tracking information that shows where the missile was launched from, and what the trajectory of that missile was right up to the point of impact. The missile was launched from a rebel controlled area that was coincidentally the same area where these missile batteries were transported and confirmed to be in place thanks to satellite imagery.. That report was confirmed by none other than the US Secretary of State himself.


They also have multiple captures of audio communications coming from rebel forces indicating they'd just shot down a jet, and also communications from the ground where these same rebels were being instructed on what to do with the black box once located, and the other GPS equipment that was tagged in large orange boxes.


I think it's becoming pretty clear who was responsible. The question is whether it was a case of mistaken identity, or if they simply didn't care what they shot down.

There are also satellite images indicating the exact opposite.


And another one of these videos of Russian missiles has been refuted by people familiar with the area. They say that the video was filmed in a town controlled by Ukraine, not separatists.

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<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-map-2014-7'>http://www.businessinsider.com/mh17-map-2014-7</a>

 

That's from July 17th and they said it was possible weather would have diverted the plane but we haven't had any reports as to why the plane was diverted yet. That was a best guess the day of from CNN.

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That's from July 17th and they said it was possible weather would have diverted the plane but we haven't had any reports as to why the plane was diverted yet. That was a best guess the day of from CNN.

I agree but its the only reasoning I've heard since then as well.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

I agree but its the only reasoning I've heard since then as well.

Even if weather was the reason, why divert over a war zone on purpose?

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Even if weather was the reason, why divert over a war zone on purpose?

From that same article:

Passenger planes have long been presumed to be safe from most conflicts, for the practical reason that the weapons typically used on the ground are far too primitive to reach an aircraft flying six miles high. The combatants in Ukraine have been thought unlikely to have the kind of sophisticated weaponry that could reach a target at such an altitude.


Tony Wheeler, the founder of the travel guide publisher Lonely Planet, recently blogged about a Qantas flight from Dubai to Heathrow over northern Iraq: “Azwya, and Mosul, which we flew close by, have both been flashpoints for the Isis takeover of parts of Iraq in recent weeks. It's remarkable how peaceful everything looks from 40,000 feet.”


The loss of flight MH17 shows that supposed immunity of passenger planes to terrestrial conflict may have been tragically misplaced.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

There are also satellite images indicating the exact opposite.


And another one of these videos of Russian missiles has been refuted by people familiar with the area. They say that the video was filmed in a town controlled by Ukraine, not separatists.

None of which dismisses the fact that the US was alerted to a ground launch, and tracked the missile to its ultimate destination.  They pinpointed the launch area as being controlled by the rebels.  That came directly from John Kerry yesterday. As incompetent as he is, I don't think he'd lie about something like this. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

None of which dismisses the fact that the US was alerted to a ground launch, and tracked the missile to its ultimate destination.  They pinpointed the launch area as being controlled by the rebels.  That came directly from John Kerry yesterday. As incompetent as he is, I don't think he'd lie about something like this.

Sure he would...

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None of which dismisses the fact that the US was alerted to a ground launch, and tracked the missile to its ultimate destination.  They pinpointed the launch area as being controlled by the rebels.  That came directly from John Kerry yesterday. As incompetent as he is, I don't think he'd lie about something like this. 

 

You are talking about the same administration that lied about Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRS Scandal, The Arab Spring............should I go on?

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You are talking about the same administration that lied about Fast and Furious, Benghazi, IRS Scandal, The Arab Spring............should I go on?

They lied about a somewhat above average car movie?

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They lied about a somewhat above average car movie?

 

lol I forget some of our residence are not state side. Fast and Furious was an operation of gun smuggling into Mexico from border states. Those guns ended up in the hands of the cartel and eventually killing a US Customs Agent after killing thousands of Mexicans. It was active under both Bush and Obama's administration.

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lol I forget some of our residence are not state side. Fast and Furious was an operation of gun smuggling into Mexico from border states. Those guns ended up in the hands of the cartel and eventually killing a US Customs Agent after killing thousands of Mexicans. It was active under both Bush and Obama's administration.

You mean the kind of stuff every one knows every administration partakes in but we all pretend they don't because it's just easier that way? 

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You mean the kind of stuff every one knows every administration partakes in but we all pretend they don't because it's just easier that way? 

 

I don't believe every administration partakes in illegally shipping guns to criminals in attempt to build up legislation for gun control. That's a special kind of low.

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