I was skeptical of TC from the get go but hoped he'd learned enough from the multiple admonishments and forced retirement in NY to learn from his mistakes. Clearly that's not the case - and he'll be forced out again due to his stubbornness.

That said, I do think this thing is likely being overblown a bit. It's likely that most of these grievances are coming from two or three disgruntled players and not necessarily a large swath of players that have come through the system in Jax.

A large number of reports from a small number of players can skew the perspective.

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Boo Hoo....

NFL Players are so soft....

Give me a break.

Most of these goof balls wouldn't have made it 15 20 years ago..

Fowler sucks.  Ramsey is a cry baby....some cover corner...giving up 20 yards completions all over the play....

They looked good the other night against the Cowboys...

Ok boomer

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I was skeptical of TC from the get go but hoped he'd learned enough from the multiple admonishments and forced retirement in NY to learn from his mistakes.  Clearly that's not the case - and he'll be forced out again due to his stubbornness.

That said, I do think this thing is likely being overblown a bit. It's likely that most of these grievances are coming from two or three disgruntled players and not necessarily a large swath of players that have come through the system in Jax.

A large number of reports from a small number of players can skew the perspective.

Man, I don't know.  The last line of the note from the NFLPA is pretty damning even if the number of players reporting it was small.

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Boo Hoo....

NFL Players are so soft....

Give me a break.

Most of these goof balls wouldn't have made it 15 20 years ago..

Fowler sucks.  Ramsey is a cry baby....some cover corner...giving up 20 yards completions all over the play....

They looked good the other night against the Cowboys...

Bahahaha I think you mean 40-50 years ago. 20 years ago was basically 2000.

Also, let's not sit here and act like those dudes playing in the 60's had a chance at defending any of todays athletes.

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I don't like the new rules. I wanted everyone to be at voluntary camp, and I assumed they would be, after laying an egg one season removed from nearly going to the Super Bowl. But those are the rules, and what's happening now is far more detrimental to this franchise. I'm hoping that right this moment Shad is trying to talk Coughlin into retiring. If not....

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Let's be real here. The NFLPA telling players to consider their options before signing with Jax is gobbly goop. There are 32 employers in the NFL and at the end of the day, money talks. Getting rid of TC will make this all go away with no residual effects.

Unions enable people to be lazy, but that is a topic for another forum.

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Let's be real here. The NFLPA telling players to consider their options before signing with Jax is gobbly goop. There are 32 employers in the NFL and at the end of the day, money talks. Getting rid of TC will make this all go away with no residual effects.

Unions enable people to be lazy, but that is a topic for another forum.

You've got to be kidding me.

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Let's be real here. The NFLPA telling players to consider their options before signing with Jax is gobbly goop. There are 32 employers in the NFL and at the end of the day, money talks. Getting rid of TC will make this all go away with no residual effects.

Unions enable people to be lazy, but that is a topic for another forum.

So you reply and say "money talks" yet being fined takes said monies away in increments.  Lets say multiple contracts are close in money for a player in FA....Other teams will pay you and not fine you, yet the Jags will pay you plus fine you.  Which job are you accepting?

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Season Tix, Section 409

2023 and still counting.....SB will finally be ours soon enough.
TLaw aka 'the prince that was promised' supporter.

Disagreement over the interpretation of a contract happens in every business, it's not unique to the NFL.

And I too am skeptical of the presentation of a percentage without the context of gross numbers. 3 of 12 is 25% after all, but it's not exactly a pandemic.

25% of all claims from 32 teams with 50+ players each is still a gaudy stat dude.

It should be no higher than like 5%.

As I posted above, in the past 2 years there have been at least 3-4 grievances made public from Antonio Brown and the NFLPA over the anthem policy. There's probably somewhere between a dozen or two every year. If we account for 25% of those... that's ridiculous and shows that Coughlin is not a good manager of people, contracts, or a football team.... as if we needed more evidence.

It is by definition undefined, therefore it is neither good nor bad. Its inflammatory journalism and a PR release by the Union, not a factual statement of the situation.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I was skeptical of TC from the get go but hoped he'd learned enough from the multiple admonishments and forced retirement in NY to learn from his mistakes.  Clearly that's not the case - and he'll be forced out again due to his stubbornness.

That said, I do think this thing is likely being overblown a bit. It's likely that most of these grievances are coming from two or three disgruntled players and not necessarily a large swath of players that have come through the system in Jax.

A large number of reports from a small number of players can skew the perspective.

Man, I don't know.  The last line of the note from the NFLPA is pretty damning even if the number of players reporting it was small.

I think it's very damning.  I just think that 25% figure is probably misleading for the reason I stated.

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Let's be real here. The NFLPA telling players to consider their options before signing with Jax is gobbly goop. There are 32 employers in the NFL and at the end of the day, money talks. Getting rid of TC will make this all go away with no residual effects.

Unions enable people to be lazy, but that is a topic for another forum.

So you reply and say "money talks" yet being fined takes said monies away in increments.  Lets say multiple contracts are close in money for a player in FA....Other teams will pay you and not fine you, yet the Jags will pay you plus fine you.  Which job are you accepting?

Close enough for lack of state tax to make a difference? This will have ZERO impact on free agents coming to JAX if they relieve TC of his duties.

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Agreed.  But not only are the players much softer, it's now part of the agreement between the NFL and the union.  So on one hand, I have no problem with Tom trying to take a bunch of softies and make them tougher.  But if it's actually against league / union rules, that I do have a problem with.  Makes me wonder why we even thought we could get away with it.

Disagreement over the interpretation of a contract happens in every business, it's not unique to the NFL.

And I too am skeptical of the presentation of a percentage without the context of gross numbers. 3 of 12 is 25% after all, but it's not exactly a pandemic.

The rules don't seem to leave much up to interpretation though.  We were demanding a player in the offseason to get rehab on site with team doctors and the agreement, as I understand it, says players arent required to do so.  Maybe there was additional language in there or special exceptions to that rule leaving it up for interpretation but haven't seen that yet.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Given our track record with free agents, I'd rather cool it in that area.

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Let's be real here. The NFLPA telling players to consider their options before signing with Jax is gobbly goop. There are 32 employers in the NFL and at the end of the day, money talks. Getting rid of TC will make this all go away with no residual effects.

Well, yeah, and one could interpret your own statement to mean that the continued presence of TC will cause residual effects.

I have no doubt that the presence of Tom Coughlin is going to make UFAs think twice about playing for the Jaguars, state tax be damned. There are other states with no income tax, and plenty with a low income tax, and if I'm signing a long-term agreement to put my body on the line for a specific team, I'll give up a few percent to land someplace that isn't going to make me fight them at the union level to stay healthy and get all of that. And we haven't even talked about the effects this might have on coaching candidates. Would I really want to take over a team that's going to have a constant players vs. FO battle which will make it hard to get them to buy in? And even harder to keep players when their contracts run up? If I'm a good candidate with options, no. If I'm someone who will roll over for TC, well...



What's somewhat lost here is that it wasn't just the NFLPA involved here. An independent arbitrator agreed upon by the NFLPA and the NFL found that there was merit to this claim. This isn't entirely a "unions suck" thing. This is a, "sure, maybe unions suck, but they were clearly in the right here," thing.

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Given our track record with free agents, I'd rather cool it in that area.

Exactly. Sustainable teams build and develop through the draft. Not to mention Caldwell's track record with free agents. Heck, this may be a blessing in disguise if it has the negative impact some think it will.

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The game has become too soft for TC. Expect him to step away and spend the rest of his days with family. We’ll miss you Tom.

Agreed.  But not only are the players much softer, it's now part of the agreement between the NFL and the union.  So on one hand, I have no problem with Tom trying to take a bunch of softies and make them tougher.  But if it's actually against league / union rules, that I do have a problem with.  Makes me wonder why we even thought we could get away with it.

Wait.... So players wanting to train outside of the facility makes them soft?

This is your classic "Well back in my day the NFL was tougher!"

The players today play at such a higher speed that if they hit people like they did back in the 70s, players would probably die. If Butkus and his 5.7 40 time hits a RB, it's not as bad as a LB with 4.4 speed hitting a WR running at 4.4 speed. The game is different now and that's not a bad thing no matter how many times people want to claim that the players are "softer".

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Let's be real here. The NFLPA telling players to consider their options before signing with Jax is gobbly goop. There are 32 employers in the NFL and at the end of the day, money talks. Getting rid of TC will make this all go away with no residual effects.

Well, yeah, and one could interpret your own statement to mean that the continued presence of TC will cause residual effects.

I have no doubt that the presence of Tom Coughlin is going to make UFAs think twice about playing for the Jaguars, state tax be damned. There are other states with no income tax, and plenty with a low income tax, and if I'm signing a long-term agreement to put my body on the line for a specific team, I'll give up a few percent to land someplace that isn't going to make me fight them at the union level to stay healthy and get all of that. And we haven't even talked about the effects this might have on coaching candidates. Would I really want to take over a team that's going to have a constant players vs. FO battle which will make it hard to get them to buy in? And even harder to keep players when their contracts run up? If I'm a good candidate with options, no. If I'm someone who will roll over for TC, well...



What's somewhat lost here is that it wasn't just the NFLPA involved here. An independent arbitrator agreed upon by the NFLPA and the NFL found that there was merit to this claim. This isn't entirely a "unions suck" thing. This is a, "sure, maybe unions suck, but they were clearly in the right here," thing.

I'm not arguing that we did or didn't do something wrong. We clearly overstepped. I'm also still on the side that says that TC and really the whole front office needs to go. But I have a problem with the last paragraph from the NFLPA. It could be possible that we have 25% of the grievances because fowler had to file one with ever one of the 18 wrongful fines that we implied, as of right now we do not know. Either way it doesn't change the following.

 A violation was committed on our part with the penalty being that we had to resend all of the fines we imposed on fowler during his rehab process. That should have been the end of the whole thing. For the Union to come out and continue to smear the franchise  , IMO, is wrong and could potentially have serious implications on our club moving forward. Now i dont know that it was purposely made public but the reality is that the last paragraph didn't have to be issued in that statement and could ultimately punish the franchise more than the initial penalty ever will.

Khan really needs get out in front of this whole thing. For him and the franchise to just stand quite like it going to all blow over doesn't seem like the right move, again IMO.

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Disagreement over the interpretation of a contract happens in every business, it's not unique to the NFL.

And I too am skeptical of the presentation of a percentage without the context of gross numbers. 3 of 12 is 25% after all, but it's not exactly a pandemic.

The rules don't seem to leave much up to interpretation though.  We were demanding a player in the offseason to get rehab on site with team doctors and the agreement, as I understand it, says players arent required to do so.  Maybe there was additional language in there or special exceptions to that rule leaving it up for interpretation but haven't seen that yet.

I'm not judging either sides actions because I don't know. The arbiter decided and it appears it took some time to reach this point so it likely wasn't open and shut, but now the language is clear.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Well, yeah, and one could interpret your own statement to mean that the continued presence of TC will cause residual effects.

I have no doubt that the presence of Tom Coughlin is going to make UFAs think twice about playing for the Jaguars, state tax be damned. There are other states with no income tax, and plenty with a low income tax, and if I'm signing a long-term agreement to put my body on the line for a specific team, I'll give up a few percent to land someplace that isn't going to make me fight them at the union level to stay healthy and get all of that. And we haven't even talked about the effects this might have on coaching candidates. Would I really want to take over a team that's going to have a constant players vs. FO battle which will make it hard to get them to buy in? And even harder to keep players when their contracts run up? If I'm a good candidate with options, no. If I'm someone who will roll over for TC, well...

What's somewhat lost here is that it wasn't just the NFLPA involved here. An independent arbitrator agreed upon by the NFLPA and the NFL found that there was merit to this claim. This isn't entirely a "unions suck" thing. This is a, "sure, maybe unions suck, but they were clearly in the right here," thing.

I'm not arguing that we did or didn't do something wrong. We clearly overstepped. I'm also still on the side that says that TC and really the whole front office needs to go. But I have a problem with the last paragraph from the NFLPA. It could be possible that we have 25% of the grievances because fowler had to file one with ever one of the 18 wrongful fines that we implied, as of right now we do not know. Either way it doesn't change the following.

 A violation was committed on our part with the penalty being that we had to resend all of the fines we imposed on fowler during his rehab process. That should have been the end of the whole thing. For the Union to come out and continue to smear the franchise  , IMO, is wrong and could potentially have serious implications on our club moving forward. Now i dont know that it was purposely made public but the reality is that the last paragraph didn't have to be issued in that statement and could ultimately punish the franchise more than the initial penalty ever will.

Khan really needs get out in front of this whole thing. For him and the franchise to just stand quite like it going to all blow over doesn't seem like the right move, again IMO.

Ok, tinfoil hat time:

What if Khan was actually so far out in front of this thing that he, or someone representing him, asked the union to include that? What if he knew the ruling was going against the Jaguars and said, "Look, I can make this go away very easily, I just need you to give me something to go on."?

The silence from the Jaguars, unless I've missed something, has been deafening. No loud attempts to justify their offseason training program and expectations of players in it, nothing saying that they acted in what they believed to be the best interest of the players, nothing about a desire to make sure that players were receiving the best care from licensed, experienced, reputable medical staff, basically none of the responses that you'd expect to see almost immediately from TC?

What if that whole last paragraph is in there because Khan wanted a way to go to TC and tell him to take a retirement package and spend time with his family or be fired for cause and get nothing? TC is a proud enough man that this might work from Khan's point of view. Remember that Weaver once said that the reason he fired Coughlin is that he didn't think Coughlin would be willing to turn over GM duties and focus solely on coaching.

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I'm not arguing that we did or didn't do something wrong. We clearly overstepped. I'm also still on the side that says that TC and really the whole front office needs to go. But I have a problem with the last paragraph from the NFLPA. It could be possible that we have 25% of the grievances because fowler had to file one with ever one of the 18 wrongful fines that we implied, as of right now we do not know. Either way it doesn't change the following.

 A violation was committed on our part with the penalty being that we had to resend all of the fines we imposed on fowler during his rehab process. That should have been the end of the whole thing. For the Union to come out and continue to smear the franchise  , IMO, is wrong and could potentially have serious implications on our club moving forward. Now i dont know that it was purposely made public but the reality is that the last paragraph didn't have to be issued in that statement and could ultimately punish the franchise more than the initial penalty ever will.

Khan really needs get out in front of this whole thing. For him and the franchise to just stand quite like it going to all blow over doesn't seem like the right move, again IMO.

Ok, tinfoil hat time:

What if Khan was actually so far out in front of this thing that he, or someone representing him, asked the union to include that? What if he knew the ruling was going against the Jaguars and said, "Look, I can make this go away very easily, I just need you to give me something to go on."?

The silence from the Jaguars, unless I've missed something, has been deafening. No loud attempts to justify their offseason training program and expectations of players in it, nothing saying that they acted in what they believed to be the best interest of the players, nothing about a desire to make sure that players were receiving the best care from licensed, experienced, reputable medical staff, basically none of the responses that you'd expect to see almost immediately from TC?

What if that whole last paragraph is in there because Khan wanted a way to go to TC and tell him to take a retirement package and spend time with his family or be fired for cause and get nothing? TC is a proud enough man that this might work from Khan's point of view. Remember that Weaver once said that the reason he fired Coughlin is that he didn't think Coughlin would be willing to turn over GM duties and focus solely on coaching.

This is nothing new regarding Tom and Caldwell. They basically throw Marrone out to the wolves in every press conference. The only time Tom came out was when he tried to plead with the fans to come out to the game.

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