lol Ron Paul has been trashing Trump the past year, would be interesting to see if he takes a cabinet position. 

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Serious question.  Does that one issue that you disagree with Johnson on, really outweigh all of the other things you believe in that he believes in?  I ask because, Trump is as pro-choice as Johnson, he just isn't admitting it.  Does the issue of abortion weigh that heavy on your decision?  I can understand it being part of the puzzle, but when I look at Johnson, I see someone who sounds almost like everything you would want in a candidate (based on your posts.)  Would you really let that issue, that isn't going to change under Trump anyways, steer you away from voting towards trying to get your party that elusive 20% in a year it is a real possibility?

 

fair points, my minds not 100% made up but yes the abortion issue is a big one for me. Johnson used to take the stance let the states decide but in many of his interviews this time around he's promoting how pro-choice he is, that makes it hard really hard for me to support him.  

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Wait..  Wait... I've voted for the Libertarian candidate for President more times than Eric has?  Seriously?  No wonder the party is going nowhere.  

 

I was a registered republican until 2010. 

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I was a registered republican until 2010. 

I took one of those political tests 10 or more years ago that told me I was was Libertarian and I honestly didn't even know what that meant and didn't really research it until the last election. I've always been registered as independent or unaffiliated but I voted Romney in 2012 because I was hoping he could unseat Obama. 

 

This year I don't care. I am not voting for Clinton or Trump. They both suck equally but for different reasons and I cannot vote for either one. I'm hoping that even though a Libertarian won't win this time, enough people are sick of the crap Washington has to offer and enough is being said about the Libertarian party that it will come around in 2020 that the party is a serious and viable option for folks.

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I took one of those political tests 10 or more years ago that told me I was was Libertarian and I honestly didn't even know what that meant and didn't really research it until the last election. I've always been registered as independent or unaffiliated but I voted Romney in 2012 because I was hoping he could unseat Obama. 

 

This year I don't care. I am not voting for Clinton or Trump. They both suck equally but for different reasons and I cannot vote for either one. I'm hoping that even though a Libertarian won't win this time, enough people are sick of the crap Washington has to offer and enough is being said about the Libertarian party that it will come around in 2020 that the party is a serious and viable option for folks.

 

I'll probably end up joining you, I'm so dumbfounded this election. The groups or individuals I had aligned myself with have ended up in Trumps camp and it's just mind blowing to me, since he's been and always has stood for pretty much the opposite of what I've fought and argued for. My peers keep trying to convince me he's changed I don't know, when did Trump become the representative of limited government? How did that happen? 

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Listen kiddo.  The interest rate being as low as it is does nothing but artificially pump up business as well as consumer spending.  If The Fed raises interest rates .25% (1/4%) and it destroys a business, then that business deserves to fail.  If it makes it harder for someone to get a loan, then that person probably really has no business taking out the loan in the first place.


 

Look at it this way.  After the dot-com bubble burst and the attacks on 9/11, what did The Fed do to strengthen the economy?  They dropped interest rates dramatically to encourage spending.
 Our society as a whole has become addicted to spending while far too many people don't actually save or invest.  Just ask people if they contribute to their 401k (if their company or job offers one).  The number of people that don't contribute at all may surprise you.  The ones that do contribute, ask them how much and I'll bet that the number that say less than 10% of their income is very high.
 Ask people that don't have a 401k as part of their job benefits if they have an IRA or other savings.  The number that don't will shock you.

 

Taxes are an entirely different issue that I won't get into.

 

I realize that you get your information from your college indoctrination education as well as Rachel Maddow and the rest of NBC news.  However, the bottom line is that an individual, business or a country spending artificial wealth (loans) is an unsustainable train wreck waiting to happen.

Not only that but many businesses use more credit that people realize...many companies use a line of credit for payroll, cell phone/ipad/tablet etc. bills, and so on...

 

That's the Feds favorite tool...Lower the interest rate when the economy is stagnant or poor, raise during a good economy because people won't think about a higher rate...

 

My company has "less than a handful" of people who contribute to their 401k according to HR.The company contributes their portion and some who have been there 20 years or more who do not contribute anything have around $50k in their 401k and no outside retirement plan and just a couple grand in the bank

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I'll probably end up joining you, I'm so dumbfounded this election. The groups or individuals I had aligned myself with have ended up in Trumps camp and it's just mind blowing to me, since he's been and always has stood for pretty much the opposite of what I've fought and argued for. My peers keep trying to convince me he's changed I don't know, when did Trump become the representative of limited government? How did that happen?

It didn't happen and won't. Don't be pressured. Do what you know is right for your beliefs. Dude is a total patsy. I will not vote for that man nor his criminal Democrat counterpart.

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Not only that but many businesses use more credit that people realize...many companies use a line of credit for payroll, cell phone/ipad/tablet etc. bills, and so on...

 

That's the Feds favorite tool...Lower the interest rate when the economy is stagnant or poor, raise during a good economy because people won't think about a higher rate...

 

My company has "less than a handful" of people who contribute to their 401k according to HR.The company contributes their portion and some who have been there 20 years or more who do not contribute anything have around $50k in their 401k and no outside retirement plan and just a couple grand in the bank

They better not be counting on social security as a supplement. They will be sorely disappointed.


But hey, my stepdad paid into his retirement the whole 30 years he was with UPS. He even made other investments and has a solid savings account. He got screwed on a good chunk of his investments thanks to Madoff and is now being screwed again by Teamsters as they cut his, and every retiree's pension by 50% starting July 1st. At 70 years old he has had to go back to work driving a semi truck because my mom's health issues require a really good insurance plan that is not cheap. He did everything right but still got screwed. After all of this I don't trust anything to do with investments and 401k and pension but what else can you do?

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They better not be counting on social security as a supplement. They will be sorely disappointed.


But hey, my stepdad paid into his retirement the whole 30 years he was with UPS. He even made other investments and has a solid savings account. He got screwed on a good chunk of his investments thanks to Madoff and is now being screwed again by Teamsters as they cut his, and every retiree's pension by 50% starting July 1st. At 70 years old he has had to go back to work driving a semi truck because my mom's health issues require a really good insurance plan that is not cheap. He did everything right but still got screwed. After all of this I don't trust anything to do with investments and 401k and pension but what else can you do?

I've looked for an alternative to the stock market as a retirement plan for years...It's scary to put all your money into any retirement plan nowadays because it's all dependent on the stock market

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They better not be counting on social security as a supplement. They will be sorely disappointed.


But hey, my stepdad paid into his retirement the whole 30 years he was with UPS. He even made other investments and has a solid savings account. He got screwed on a good chunk of his investments thanks to Madoff and is now being screwed again by Teamsters as they cut his, and every retiree's pension by 50% starting July 1st. At 70 years old he has had to go back to work driving a semi truck because my mom's health issues require a really good insurance plan that is not cheap. He did everything right but still got screwed. After all of this I don't trust anything to do with investments and 401k and pension but what else can you do?

 

I just do my employers match on the 401k, after that I'm buying land. As I'm able I buy a couple acres at a time land will never be worth zero that's my thought at least. 

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They better not be counting on social security as a supplement. They will be sorely disappointed.


But hey, my stepdad paid into his retirement the whole 30 years he was with UPS. He even made other investments and has a solid savings account. He got screwed on a good chunk of his investments thanks to Madoff and is now being screwed again by Teamsters as they cut his, and every retiree's pension by 50% starting July 1st. At 70 years old he has had to go back to work driving a semi truck because my mom's health issues require a really good insurance plan that is not cheap. He did everything right but still got screwed. After all of this I don't trust anything to do with investments and 401k and pension but what else can you do?

 

Regarding the first part in bold.  Social Security is a supplement to retirement savings.  The problem is that many people think that Social Security IS their retirement.

 

Regarding the second part in bold.  Investing takes some education and/or even hiring a financial adviser.  At the very least, I would suggest that people contribute to a 401k if it's offered by their employer, especially if the employer matches a portion of their contributions.  The key thing is investing over time, ideally at least 10% of your income.  If not a 401k, at least sock money away into a savings/money market account.

 

I've looked for an alternative to the stock market as a retirement plan for years...It's scary to put all your money into any retirement plan nowadays because it's all dependent on the stock market

 

As I said to americus, it either takes some basic knowledge on the subject, or sometimes it's best to hire a professional.  I've been investing in the market for years and have a nice nest-egg for my wife and I when we decide to retire.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I just do my employers match on the 401k, after that I'm buying land. As I'm able I buy a couple acres at a time land will never be worth zero that's my thought at least. 

 

That's not a bad idea for the long term.  The only problem with land/real estate is it isn't a very liquid asset.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

That's not a bad idea for the long term. The only problem with land/real estate is it isn't a very liquid asset.

I don't anticipate needing to much cash on hand, I like land because I'm so paranoid about another market crash. I just don't trust it one bit, I do the 401k even reluctantly and with the mindset I'll probably lose all that money one day.

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I don't anticipate needing to much cash on hand, I like land because I'm so paranoid about another market crash. I just don't trust it one bit, I do the 401k even reluctantly and with the mindset I'll probably lose all that money one day.

 

If you contribute at least as much as your employer matches, you are making a good return on your money.  If you're paranoid, most 401k's offer an "age based plan" based on when you want to retire and will invest the money appropriately.  Select a retirement year that is close, and your money will be invested in "safer" securities.  Again keep in mind, something like a 401k is intended for investing over time.  Look up "dollar cost averaging" to get an idea.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

If you contribute at least as much as your employer matches, you are making a good return on your money. If you're paranoid, most 401k's offer an "age based plan" based on when you want to retire and will invest the money appropriately. Select a retirement year that is close, and your money will be invested in "safer" securities. Again keep in mind, something like a 401k is intended for investing over time. Look up "dollar cost averaging" to get an idea.

Yea we have that I opted for the retirement in 2045 that would make me 60 when I retire.

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Regarding the first part in bold.  Social Security is a supplement to retirement savings.  The problem is that many people think that Social Security IS their retirement.

 

For many people, Social Security is the only fund into which they could afford to contribute. A lot of citizens have lived essentially from paycheck to paycheck for most of their adult lives. And, before you can say it's their fault, I know more than a few of them, it often wasn't. Even their meager success in life was a triumph of will and determination.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

For many people, Social Security is the only fund into which they could afford to contribute. A lot of citizens have lived essentially from paycheck to paycheck for most of their adult lives. And, before you can say it's their fault, I know more than a few of them, it often wasn't. Even their meager success in life was a triumph of will and determination.

And for some, such as my husband, he put money away in his 401k for 20+ years thinking it was just going to be him living on his retirement. Then we get married 4 years ago and it's kind of a problem.


He has maybe 15 years to invest for retirement for two on one income until I finish school and hopefully get employed. With 2 surgeries in 14 months for me and the cost of those and rehab for the recent one even with insurance, plus replacing stuff on a 20+ year old home as it ages and normal living expenses, we're just getting by and he makes pretty decent money.


He works for local government which is a plus but when they say it's time to retire, you retire. And hopefully his state pension he also pays into will be there when it happens and doesn't get screwed out of it somehow.

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They better not be counting on social security as a supplement. They will be sorely disappointed.


But hey, my stepdad paid into his retirement the whole 30 years he was with UPS. He even made other investments and has a solid savings account. He got screwed on a good chunk of his investments thanks to Madoff and is now being screwed again by Teamsters as they cut his, and every retiree's pension by 50% starting July 1st. At 70 years old he has had to go back to work driving a semi truck because my mom's health issues require a really good insurance plan that is not cheap. He did everything right but still got screwed. After all of this I don't trust anything to do with investments and 401k
and pension but what else can you do?

That's where I'm at...I don't trust the stock market...It doesn't take much to make it drop, it fluctuates simply on speculation...It's much harder to bring back up than it is to drop it...The market is also manipulated...

 

Some people don't realize that social security is only designed as a supplement, and it will probably be gone before some of you younguns retire

 

I just do my employers match on the 401k, after that I'm buying land. As I'm able I buy a couple acres at a time land will never be worth zero that's my thought at least. 

I do the match on my employers 401k, plus I have a roth IRA I contribute to as well...I have some land as well, and buy more when I can, but one never knows how long it will take to sell...I don't plan on selling any of it, but you never know what's going to happen...

 

Regarding the first part in bold.  Social Security is a supplement to retirement savings.  The problem is that many people think that Social Security IS their retirement.

 

Regarding the second part in bold.  Investing takes some education and/or even hiring a financial adviser.  At the very least, I would suggest that people contribute to a 401k if it's offered by their employer, especially if the employer matches a portion of their contributions.  The key thing is investing over time, ideally at least 10% of your income.  If not a 401k, at least sock money away into a savings/money market account.

 

 

As I said to americus, it either takes some basic knowledge on the subject, or sometimes it's best to hire a professional.  I've been investing in the market for years and have a nice nest-egg for my wife and I when we decide to retire.

I have some investments as well, but it doesn't comfort me much knowing how quickly and unexpectedly the bottom can fall out of the market...

 

If you contribute at least as much as your employer matches, you are making a good return on your money.  If you're paranoid, most 401k's offer an "age based plan" based on when you want to retire and will invest the money appropriately.  Select a retirement year that is close, and your money will be invested in "safer" securities.  Again keep in mind, something like a 401k is intended for investing over time.  Look up "dollar cost averaging" to get an idea.

I think the "age based plan" is actually called target date funds, which are mutual funds...I have one and it's set up to turn more conservative as your retirement date nears to preserve wealth, and then leans heavily on bonds for stability 

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That's where I'm at...I don't trust the stock market...It doesn't take much to make it drop, it fluctuates simply on speculation...It's much harder to bring back up than it is to drop it...The market is also manipulated...

 

Some people don't realize that social security is only designed as a supplement, and it will probably be gone before some of you younguns retire

 

I do the match on my employers 401k, plus I have a roth IRA I contribute to as well...I have some land as well, and buy more when I can, but one never knows how long it will take to sell...I don't plan on selling any of it, but you never know what's going to happen...

 

I have some investments as well, but it doesn't comfort me much knowing how quickly and unexpectedly the bottom can fall out of the market...

 

 

I'm only losing sleep over when the government decides to take a luxury tax against all IRAs. The market variation doesn't bother me that much, but if Uncle Sugar decides to grab 30 or 40 percent for himself it could be a problem.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I'm only losing sleep over when the government decides to take a luxury tax against all IRAs. The market variation doesn't bother me that much, but if Uncle Sugar decides to grab 30 or 40 percent for himself it could be a problem.

the variation I can handle. the sudden drop and slow return is what bothers me..It would bother me more if a sudden unexpected drop hit after retirement 

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