<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Admittedly I am not as familiar with the politics involved with any downtown plans, as I haven't lived in Jacksonville since I was a teenager. I do, however, organize and plan conferences for the company I work for and I can tell you that the main two considerations of picking a place to hold a conference is:

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<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">a) Proximity to the airport. 

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<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Neither the Shipyards or the Prime Osbourne are close to the airport. Push.

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<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">2) Restaurant, shopping, and lodging (if the conference doesn't take place in a hotel) within a walk-able distance from the convention venue.

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<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">If even 5% of the projected Shipyards design comes to be, it will offer significant advantages over the Prime Osbourne's location.

 

 

I am very familiar with the politics here, and that good old boy network that used to have a stranglehold over the downtown area has lost much of its political clout over the past decade.  Where they were able to have SOME influence when the city hosted the Super Bowl, they were dealt a dose of reality then when the city proceeded with an entertainment district along the river front for the game.  They've continued to lose their hold on power as the city becomes more spread out, and the church has started to shrink downtown.  Heck, even FBC has created a satellite church south of town, so they recognize the fact that their influence in downtown is diminishing. 

 

Proximity to the airport isn't a huge deal.  Downtown is less than 20 minutes from the airport via I-95.  So it really is a push.  It's not directly on site with the airport, but it's close enough, and if the options for food, lodging, culture, and entertainment are abundant in and around the shipyards, it becomes a real draw for the convention business they've missed out on. 

 

The Prime Osborne experiment has been a failed effort.  If the city wants to become a player in the convention business, they'll have to move on from that place and go big. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the convention center where it is currently is that it's got no hotels adjacent to it, or even within a few blocks.  Not very well thought out.  Add to that the fact that the place isn't big enough, or modern enough to really be a thriving convention center, and you've got a good idea as to why that business doesn't look to Jacksonville for much.  I don't think putting a convention center on the waterfront would be the best use of real estate, especially when the land where the old courthouse sits would be better served by putting a hotel or some other tax revenue generating structure there, but, the jail and JSO HQ across the street?  That could all be relocated to make room for a convention center. 

 

Definitely agree with you there. I just don't see the jail moving, which is a shame. I remember asking John Peyton about relocating the jail about a decade ago and he had mentioned a possible location on the northside. Was way down his list of priorities and the 2008 economic collapse killed any chance of it happening.

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I am very familiar with the politics here, and that good old boy network that used to have a stranglehold over the downtown area has lost much of its political clout over the past decade.  Where they were able to have SOME influence when the city hosted the Super Bowl, they were dealt a dose of reality then when the city proceeded with an entertainment district along the river front for the game.  They've continued to lose their hold on power as the city becomes more spread out, and the church has started to shrink downtown.  Heck, even FBC has created a satellite church south of town, so they recognize the fact that their influence in downtown is diminishing. 

 

Proximity to the airport isn't a huge deal.  Downtown is less than 20 minutes from the airport via I-95.  So it really is a push.  It's not directly on site with the airport, but it's close enough, and if the options for food, lodging, culture, and entertainment are abundant in and around the shipyards, it becomes a real draw for the convention business they've missed out on. 

 

The Prime Osborne experiment has been a failed effort.  If the city wants to become a player in the convention business, they'll have to move on from that place and go big. 

 

 

I'm not saying the mentioned areas are hours from the airport, but many of the conferences we organize and attend take place practically IN the airport. Orlando and Chicago come to mind. What is important if the convention location isn't immediately close to the airport, is that there damn well be some stuff to do near the convention venue. I think we are on the same page here.

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I don't know how anyone can be the least bit critical of anything that was announced today. Absoultely beautiful. We have nothing like this here at all. If you've ever been to the Navy Pier in Chicago, this is a little similiar. I'm even in love with the logo!

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Whoa.. How beautiful it could be without all the bums and pan handlers. When will Touchdowns be a part of this franchise?

Are you like unaware that free agency starts March 10th? Because your repeated jump to football when no significant changes can possibly be made right now are useless and stupid. 

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I am very familiar with the politics here, and that good old boy network that used to have a stranglehold over the downtown area has lost much of its political clout over the past decade.  Where they were able to have SOME influence when the city hosted the Super Bowl, they were dealt a dose of reality then when the city proceeded with an entertainment district along the river front for the game.  They've continued to lose their hold on power as the city becomes more spread out, and the church has started to shrink downtown.  Heck, even FBC has created a satellite church south of town, so they recognize the fact that their influence in downtown is diminishing. 

 

 

To what do you attribute this?

 

Whenever this city seems ready to make a quantum leap forward, the good old boy network tends to resist it kicking and screaming.

 

Remember, the city council initially rejected the stadium proposal that allowed the Jaguars to come here.

 

Some were actually content with a half [BLEEP] renovation of the Gator Bowl.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Mark and Shahid understand the importance of integrating corporate America into the city of Jacksonville, that's very important for strong economical sustainability. Jacksonville needs to be a city where college grads are looking to move because of corporate opportunities, I live in Minneapolis, MN which has a population of about 400k, much smaller than the 800K in Jacksonville, however the feel of the two cities couldn't be any different. And it's because companies like, Target, Best Buy, 3M, Cargill, Xcel Energy, Ecolab, Valspar etc... are headquartered in this area, those opportunities attract college graduates, which coincides with the plethora of different entertainment options there are in the Minneapolis/St Paul area. That’s why it's so important to develop those shipyards. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the city of Jacksonville is extremely blessed to have such a committed owner on and off the football field, Shahid is singlehandedly turning that city around.

The actual size of the cities between Jax and Minneapolis is kind of irrelevant. Metro Jax is like 1.4 million and Metro Minneapolis is pushing 3.5 million. Larger metropolitan areas typically mean more vibrant cores. More people to spend their money.

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Only other criticism...an amphitheatre? Do we really need one in the Shipyards? I guess if we can attract high profile performers it will be great, but I'd hate for that part of the Shipyards to be a fancier and more expensive Landing.

 

They're looking to create green space that has dual functionality, so an amphitheater makes sense in accomplishing this.

 

I'm assuming it will be owned by Khan enterprises. The city may own a portion of it since they currently own the actual land and will have to come out of pocket to clean up the area as well.

Khan may treat this in the same manner that they did with the Landing.  The city owns the property underneath the landing.  Tony Sleiman owns the Landing itself.  As long as Khan is underwriting the costs of cleaning up the area, and developing the property, that's a partnership that everyone could live with. 

 

I do believe that the Landing is still being redesigned as well..!

It is.  The only difference is that the Landing is trying to get taxpayer dollars to pay for the renovations.  When it's done, if it actually comes to fruition, what we know as the Landing currently will change dramatically as Sleiman's focus is on adding more housing and eliminating much of the wasted space.  It'll be something similar to what we've seen crop up in areas like Tapestry Park where you've got a mix of retail on the ground floor, apartments, condos, and hotels above. 

 

It's not in the city's interest to expand the Skyway to the stadium. If the Skyway was extended from the King St. parking garage to the stadium, that would open up hundreds of cheap parking spaces that the city can't overcharge fans for like the ones in Tailgate City. If there's a cheaper, easier option, people are going to take advantage of it. I know that in the past the city government has spent money on projects only to lose money in the long run, but I don't think they will do that in this case.

 

 

I don't think the city is moving a jail that was fairly recently built to suit the whims of a owner of a football team. They might but I haven't heard anything from the city saying they would be up to the idea. FBC is also going to fight tooth and nail to prevent a large number of new night clubs from being built (the fact that they are sitting on more than 30 liquor licenses helps their cause). If we get anything more than new practice fields I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

The Jail and Police Memorial Building were built 30+ years ago when there wasn't any sort of vision around better utilization of that real estate.  If the potential to create significant tax revenue by converting that land to something that generates revenue for the city, and a case can be made that it would, the idea of getting the jail and JSO HQ off of prime real estate and moving them somewhere that makes more sense becomes appealing to the city.  It's not something I'd expect to see happen in the next 5 years, but long term?  Absolutely.  No hotel or other major operation is going to have even remote interest in building something directly across the street from a jail. 

 

FBC doesn't have a leg to stand on.  Their influence over anything has been severely diminished over the past 7 or 8 years. 

 

The maritime museum is already on the books.  Khan has a hotel chain, and at least one major restaurant/entertainment brand that's expressed interest.

 

They may not get everything they're aiming for, but I would expect to see them secure a good bit of this over the long haul. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the convention center where it is currently is that it's got no hotels adjacent to it, or even within a few blocks.  Not very well thought out.  Add to that the fact that the place isn't big enough, or modern enough to really be a thriving convention center, and you've got a good idea as to why that business doesn't look to Jacksonville for much.  I don't think putting a convention center on the waterfront would be the best use of real estate, especially when the land where the old courthouse sits would be better served by putting a hotel or some other tax revenue generating structure there, but, the jail and JSO HQ across the street?  That could all be relocated to make room for a convention center.

Having a jail with a beautiful view of the river is not only an abomination, but a pitiful waste of taxpayer dollars. Move the jail, utilize that precious property for the betterment of the Shipyards project.

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To what do you attribute this?

 

Whenever this city seems ready to make a quantum leap forward, the good old boy network tends to resist it kicking and screaming.

 

Remember, the city council initially rejected the stadium proposal that allowed the Jaguars to come here.

 

Some were actually content with a half [BLEEP] renovation of the Gator Bowl.

The city council and the Mayor's office aren't run by the good old boys any longer.  Even if the to office changes hands in the election, the opposition isn't part of that network either. 

 

A lot of things have changed in the 2+ decades since the city approved the stadium proposal after initially rejecting it.  There was a time that you would see just about every member of the city council in the pews on Sundays at the Homer Dome.  That's not the case today. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

So a convention even further away from the highway is going to attract more customers because of the Shipyards? I have a hard time believing that. All of these plans sound great and I really hope they happen, but I have my doubts. Khan undoubtedly has the money to get things done but does he have stroke? The Good Ole Boy Network that has been running downtown affairs for decades may have some resistance to some of these plans. He also has to deal with a powerful church downtown who may not have very high opinions of him. I hope it all comes to fruition but I have some doubts.

I wouldn't worry about that.

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Having a jail with a beautiful view of the river is not only an abomination, but a pitiful waste of taxpayer dollars. Move the jail, utilize that precious property for the betterment of the Shipyards project.

When downtown was the center of the universe for Jacksonville, it made sense to have the jail downtown near the courthouse. 

 

3 decades later, the courthouse is gone, and there are far more viable options for placement of a jail that would make more sense than what they've got currently. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

I wouldn't worry about that.

Exactly. 

 

The smart thing Khan has done since becoming part of the Jacksonville landscape is he has made a real effort to help bolster and support business growth in Jacksonville, and his efforts have actually had a positive impact on the direction the city is headed in today.  That will carry far more influence with the people who will ultimately make any decisions about proceeding with this project or not than a church that has had to lay off staff and scale back their operations in recent years. 

 

FBC isn't running downtown any longer.  That's why you're starting to see clubs and other entertainment options starting to pop up down there. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

They're looking to create green space that has dual functionality, so an amphitheater makes sense in accomplishing this.


Khan may treat this in the same manner that they did with the Landing. The city owns the property underneath the landing. Tony Sleiman owns the Landing itself. As long as Khan is underwriting the costs of cleaning up the area, and developing the property, that's a partnership that everyone could live with.


It is. The only difference is that the Landing is trying to get taxpayer dollars to pay for the renovations. When it's done, if it actually comes to fruition, what we know as the Landing currently will change dramatically as Sleiman's focus is on adding more housing and eliminating much of the wasted space. It'll be something similar to what we've seen crop up in areas like Tapestry Park where you've got a mix of retail on the ground floor, apartments, condos, and hotels above.





The Jail and Police Memorial Building were built 30+ years ago when there wasn't any sort of vision around better utilization of that real estate. If the potential to create significant tax revenue by converting that land to something that generates revenue for the city, and a case can be made that it would, the idea of getting the jail and JSO HQ off of prime real estate and moving them somewhere that makes more sense becomes appealing to the city. It's not something I'd expect to see happen in the next 5 years, but long term? Absolutely. No hotel or other major operation is going to have even remote interest in building something directly across the street from a jail.


FBC doesn't have a leg to stand on. Their influence over anything has been severely diminished over the past 7 or 8 years.


The maritime museum is already on the books. Khan has a hotel chain, and at least one major restaurant/entertainment brand that's expressed interest.


They may not get everything they're aiming for, but I would expect to see them secure a good bit of this over the long haul.

I don't understand your thinking on FBC. They still own 5 blocks of prime downtown property, a pile of liquor licenses, and are in the pockets of many of the city council. I've been hearing for 20 years how downtown is going to be changed, so no offense but I'll believe it when I see it.

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Jaguars Fundamentalist

Definitely agree with you there. I just don't see the jail moving, which is a shame. I remember asking John Peyton about relocating the jail about a decade ago and he had mentioned a possible location on the northside. Was way down his list of priorities and the 2008 economic collapse killed any chance of it happening.

The city has land on the westside that would be a perfect spot to relocate the jail.

 

As far as the HQ for JSO, if they don't want to pair it with the jail as is currently the structure, there are plenty of areas where they could move the main police operations that would not only help to revitalize other areas of town, but would provide a more centralized location for all law enforcement within the city. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

A successful convention center, fully utilized, would provide continuous utilization of the entertainment facilities at The Shipyards, 24/7. We have an opportunity to propel this city, so long the butt of jokes, into a renaissance of unimaginable results. We can't drop the ball on this.

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Exactly.


The smart thing Khan has done since becoming part of the Jacksonville landscape is he has made a real effort to help bolster and support business growth in Jacksonville, and his efforts have actually had a positive impact on the direction the city is headed in today. That will carry far more influence with the people who will ultimately make any decisions about proceeding with this project or not than a church that has had to lay off staff and scale back their operations in recent years.


FBC isn't running downtown any longer. That's why you're starting to see clubs and other entertainment options starting to pop up down there.

What new clubs? I often frequent Mark's, TSI, Dive Bar, 1904, Dos Gatos and many others but I haven't seen anything new. Bars need liquor licenses to serve booze and for some reason there seems to be a shortage of them for the downtown area.

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Jaguars Fundamentalist

The city is planning their own revitalization project for the DT area as well. The timeline is somewhat similiar too with phasing going through the next several years. There's plans for more retail and restaurants. We may finally have a big city feel to our DT.

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http://www.wokv.com/news/news/local/road...ote/nj7fy/

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I didn't watch the state of the union but I just watched a portion of it on the shipyards. My question is how long until the shipyards project is complete and who will be the one paying for it? Also will this project have anything to do with making Kahn or the Jags more profitable or is it more public to everyone to own businesses in the area?

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