I am thinking the team is just too young to have much success right now.   This is a serious serious rebuild of a type that is rarely tried, because people just don't have the stomach for it.   Shad Khan will stay the course and see the thing through.   They knew this would be difficult to go through, but Shad Khan is an analytical guy with an engineering background, and a very determined guy, and these are his picks to run this team, and he approved this plan, and he will give them at least a full three years to turn this thing around.  

 

"But don't they see this?  Can't they see this??"    "The definition of insanity..."    etc etc etc. 

 

Argue all you want, but I don't think you will see any changes in the offseason outside of roster changes and an offensive line coach.  

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Taking these charts at face value, this still does not speak to the design of the offense.


The basis of comparison involves Bortles, a rookie one the one hand, vs. QBs with 3 years experience (Luck), SIXTEEN (16) years experience in Manning, FOURTEEN (14) years experience in Brady, and TEN (10) years experience in Rodgers.


Isn't it possible that, given the disparities of experience between Bortles and these QBs listed above, that Bortles at this stage doesn't see the field and read the defenses as well as the more experienced QBs listed above, and that contributes to the disparities in pass distribution?


Furthermore, Luck has Dwayne Allen and Coby Fleener at TE. Manning has Julius Thomas at TE, Brady has Gronkowski, and Rodgers has Quarless at that same position. The Jaguars' two best TEs have both missed substantial time with injury. Doesn't that, in addition to the inexperience at QB, also serve to explain over the middle pass distribution?


Also, Bortles is throwing primarily to three (3) rookie WRs. Luck is throwing to one rookie WR and he isn't starting. Manning is throwing to one rookie WR and he isn't starting. Rodgers is throwing to one rookie WR (Adams).


Simply showing the results of the offense does not speak to design flaw. There are other factors that contribute to the end results, including experience, situation, etc.

I will admit that I didn't take the contextual discussion into account when I posted the data. I just saw Anchorman say he thought he remembered a low percentage of short middle plays and I wanted to bring in data.


FWIW, I think it's probably more on our QB, WRs, RBs and TEs not reading coverages correctly and adjusting.

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I am thinking the team is just too young to have much success right now.   This is a serious serious rebuild of a type that is rarely tried, because people just don't have the stomach for it.   Shad Khan will stay the course and see the thing through.   They knew this would be difficult to go through, but Shad Khan is an analytical guy with an engineering background, and a very determined guy, and these are his picks to run this team, and he approved this plan, and he will give them at least a full three years to turn this thing around.  

 

"But don't they see this?  Can't they see this??"    "The definition of insanity..."    etc etc etc. 

 

Argue all you want, but I don't think you will see any changes in the offseason outside of roster changes and an offensive line coach.  

 

And hopefully a new special teams coach.

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On a few occasions I have seen Blake throw a good pass to an open receiver only to have him drop the ball.  He is trying so hard to succeed that he does know the ability of his players and if you see a guy get open and he doesnt throw to him, its probably because he doesnt have the faith in the guy to catch it.

 

Cough. Lewis. cough. Shoelace cough. cough... choke. cough.. Cecil.. Cough..

 

The team does have great potential in the rookie WRs Allen Robinson, Allen Hurns, Marqise Lee but the rest of them are below average.  The team still could use a flashy WR (where art thou Justin Blackmon).

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I will admit that I didn't take the contextual discussion into account when I posted the data. I just saw Anchorman say he thought he remembered a low percentage of short middle plays and I wanted to bring in data.


FWIW, I think it's probably more on our QB, WRs, RBs and TEs not reading coverages correctly and adjusting.

That was reasonable.  No harm no foul.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

One more point regarding the offense.

 

For the purposes of this point, I readily acknowledge Norv Turner to be a superior OC at this point to Fisch.  From his time with Dallas turning Aikman and company into a Super Bowl caliber offense to his time with the Chargers, Turner's credentials are well beyond reproach.  Fisch's not so much.

 

If, based upon those prior credentials, we can assume that Turner's offense is sufficiently designed for success in the NFL, to what does one attribute the Vikings' offensive rankings?

 

Currently, the Vikings rank 28th overall in offense.  Jacksonville ranks 31st.

 

The Vikings actually rank below the Jaguars in passing offense (28th to 30th).  The Vikings (25th, 20.2 ppg) manage to score 5 more points per game than the Jaguars' last place 15.3 ppg average.

 

Keep in mind, the Jaguars managed comparable numbers and rankings in these areas starting 6 rookies (BB, M. Lee, ARob, Linder, Bowanko, Hurns).  The Vikings, on the other hand, starts one (1) rookie on offense-Bridgewater.

 

If a team with one of the best OCs in football can rank in the bottom 25% of the league in scoring and the bottom 12% or so in offense and passing with only one rookie, is it necessarily a mark of bad coaching for an offense featuring SIX (6) rookies to put up comparable or worse numbers?

 

Also, note that all of the teams that featured extensive play time with rookie QBs (us, Oakland, Minnesota and Tennessee) are all near the bottom in offense.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

One more point regarding the offense.

 

For the purposes of this point, I readily acknowledge Norv Turner to be a superior OC at this point to Fisch.  From his time with Dallas turning Aikman and company into a Super Bowl caliber offense to his time with the Chargers, Turner's credentials are well beyond reproach.  Fisch's not so much.

 

If, based upon those prior credentials, we can assume that Turner's offense is sufficiently designed for success in the NFL, to what does one attribute the Vikings' offensive rankings?

 

Currently, the Vikings rank 28th overall in offense.  Jacksonville ranks 31st.

 

The Vikings actually rank below the Jaguars in passing offense (28th to 30th).  The Vikings (25th, 20.2 ppg) manage to score 5 more points per game than the Jaguars' last place 15.3 ppg average.

 

Keep in mind, the Jaguars managed comparable numbers and rankings in these areas starting 6 rookies (BB, M. Lee, ARob, Linder, Bowanko, Hurns).  The Vikings, on the other hand, starts one (1) rookie on offense-Bridgewater.

 

If a team with one of the best OCs in football can rank in the bottom 25% of the league in scoring and the bottom 12% or so in offense and passing with only one rookie, is it necessarily a mark of bad coaching for an offense featuring SIX (6) rookies to put up comparable or worse numbers?

 

Also, note that all of the teams that featured extensive play time with rookie QBs (us, Oakland, Minnesota and Tennessee) are all near the bottom in offense.

 

Turner is working magic in Minnesota.

 

He's got a noodle armed rookie QB who can't drive the ball but the offense is executing so well that they turned a behind the line screen pass into an 80+ yard TD in OT the other day.

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Turner is working magic in Minnesota.

 

He's got a noodle armed rookie QB who can't drive the ball but the offense is executing so well that they turned a behind the line screen pass into an 80+ yard TD in OT the other day.

So then it's possible for a coach to do a good job despite low statistical rankings comparable to the Jaguars?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So then it's possible for a coach to do a good job despite low statistical rankings comparable to the Jaguars?

 

Coordinators are judged by how well they position their unit to succeed. In the case of Turner I think he's doing a good job considering Bridgewater's limitations.

 

In Fisch's case I think he could do a better job, and I've explained my thoughts on it many times.

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Devil's Advocate:  Why Fisch has to stay.

 

If Bradley stays, and Fisch goes... and then Bradley goes next year, that means we'll likely be changing OC's again.  Otherwise we'd be handcuffing our new coach to our old OC.  Which is the last thing we want to happen.  If Bradley IS the answer, then firing Fisch would be the best move.  Because that would allow for some consistency.  Of course, consistency for consistency's sake isn't a good thing.  But changing OC's in back to back years would probably hurt more than sticking with Fisch for another year.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Coordinators are judged by how well they position their unit to succeed. In the case of Turner I think he's doing a good job considering Bridgewater's limitations.

 

In Fisch's case I think he could do a better job, and I've explained my thoughts on it many times.

Bridgewaters limitations, a bad oline, no AP, No Rudolph for the most part and a bunch of no name receivers mixed with Greg "Old Spice" Jennings.

 

They also have 6 wins... I don't think talent wise the Vikings are 4 games better than us.

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One more point regarding the offense.

 

For the purposes of this point, I readily acknowledge Norv Turner to be a superior OC at this point to Fisch.  From his time with Dallas turning Aikman and company into a Super Bowl caliber offense to his time with the Chargers, Turner's credentials are well beyond reproach.  Fisch's not so much.

 

If, based upon those prior credentials, we can assume that Turner's offense is sufficiently designed for success in the NFL, to what does one attribute the Vikings' offensive rankings?

 

Currently, the Vikings rank 28th overall in offense.  Jacksonville ranks 31st.

 

The Vikings actually rank below the Jaguars in passing offense (28th to 30th).  The Vikings (25th, 20.2 ppg) manage to score 5 more points per game than the Jaguars' last place 15.3 ppg average.

 

Keep in mind, the Jaguars managed comparable numbers and rankings in these areas starting 6 rookies (BB, M. Lee, ARob, Linder, Bowanko, Hurns).  The Vikings, on the other hand, starts one (1) rookie on offense-Bridgewater.

 

If a team with one of the best OCs in football can rank in the bottom 25% of the league in scoring and the bottom 12% or so in offense and passing with only one rookie, is it necessarily a mark of bad coaching for an offense featuring SIX (6) rookies to put up comparable or worse numbers?

 

Also, note that all of the teams that featured extensive play time with rookie QBs (us, Oakland, Minnesota and Tennessee) are all near the bottom in offense.

 

The Jaguars have better skill players than do the Vikings, in my opinion. 

 

The Vikings have rolled this year with not only a rookie QB, but Asiata and McKinnon as the RB's of which both are nothing special. Gerhart might actually be more talented than Asiata and Shoelace without a doubt is better at this stage than McKinnon. 

 

At WR, Patterson has been a flop. Their best WR is a street FA in Charles Johnson. 

 

The Jags have Bortles/ Hurns/ Lee/ Robinson/ Shorts. Thats a huge advantage talentwise to the Jags. 

 

The Vikings haven't had a healthy Kyle Rudolph all year, either. When he has played he's been clearly limited. 

 

The fact that the Vikings' offense with Turner are still ahead of the Jags is an indictment to Fisch's offense. 

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Bridgewaters limitations, a bad oline, no AP, No Rudolph for the most part and a bunch of no name receivers mixed with Greg "Old Spice" Jennings.

 

They also have 6 wins... I don't think talent wise the Vikings are 4 games better than us.

So you are not impressed by Cordarelle Patterson?!?

 

NVM:  This explains things...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ikings-say

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

So you are not impressed by Cordarelle Patterson?!?

 

NVM:  This explains things...

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ikings-say

hahahah No... I'm not impressed with someone who has 350 receiving yards and 1 TD.

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Bridgewaters limitations, a bad oline, no AP, No Rudolph for the most part and a bunch of no name receivers mixed with Greg "Old Spice" Jennings.

 

They also have 6 wins... I don't think talent wise the Vikings are 4 games better than us.

 

They have taken advantage of an easy schedule. They have beaten the Jets, Bucs, Panthers, Falcons, Redskins and Rams. Two of those wins in overtime.

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One more point regarding the offense.

 

For the purposes of this point, I readily acknowledge Norv Turner to be a superior OC at this point to Fisch.  From his time with Dallas turning Aikman and company into a Super Bowl caliber offense to his time with the Chargers, Turner's credentials are well beyond reproach.  Fisch's not so much.

 

If, based upon those prior credentials, we can assume that Turner's offense is sufficiently designed for success in the NFL, to what does one attribute the Vikings' offensive rankings?

 

Currently, the Vikings rank 28th overall in offense.  Jacksonville ranks 31st.

 

The Vikings actually rank below the Jaguars in passing offense (28th to 30th).  The Vikings (25th, 20.2 ppg) manage to score 5 more points per game than the Jaguars' last place 15.3 ppg average.

 

Keep in mind, the Jaguars managed comparable numbers and rankings in these areas starting 6 rookies (BB, M. Lee, ARob, Linder, Bowanko, Hurns).  The Vikings, on the other hand, starts one (1) rookie on offense-Bridgewater.

 

If a team with one of the best OCs in football can rank in the bottom 25% of the league in scoring and the bottom 12% or so in offense and passing with only one rookie, is it necessarily a mark of bad coaching for an offense featuring SIX (6) rookies to put up comparable or worse numbers?

 

Also, note that all of the teams that featured extensive play time with rookie QBs (us, Oakland, Minnesota and Tennessee) are all near the bottom in offense.

 

Stop using that "logic" stuff.  That's not allowed here.  Only knee-jerk reactions and calls for coaches to be fired.

 

Turner is working magic in Minnesota.

 

He's got a noodle armed rookie QB who can't drive the ball but the offense is executing so well that they turned a behind the line screen pass into an 80+ yard TD in OT the other day.

 

Not sure if serious  :ermm:

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They have taken advantage of an easy schedule. They have beaten the Jets, Bucs, Panthers, Falcons, Redskins and Rams. Two of those wins in overtime.

lol and the Redskins smoked us and we lost to the titans..... Games we should have won. If we were to play them head to head... who do you think would be favored?

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