Jaguars lose, TMD mad

 

Jaguars win, TMD mad

 

Good schtick you got going bro.

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I did, with 2 links. If you're too stupid to not understand deductive reasoning, then thats your problem. 

can you show me those two people's nfl scouting credentials?

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LOL, ....this argument again....yeah, that 1-15 season really continued the development of a losing culture in Dallas, huh?....Oops, no they won 3 super bowls within 4 seasons after that...

 

Or, as if finishing 3-13 or 4-12 instead of 1-15 is somehow just so much of a difference regarding this "losing culture" you speak of....lolz.....

 

I  swear, its as if people just want us to ultimately stay mediocre long term...

 

You keep cherry picking Troy Aikman. Dude that was 30 years ago when power football was the formula for success. Who did Troy have running behind him again? Oh that's right, Emmitt Smith. He also had Alvin Harper, Moose Johnson, Jay Novacek, Mike Irvin, Deion Sanders, Rocket Ismail, Joey Galloway. You keep insisting the #1 pick is going to turn into Troy freakin Aikman.

 

I gave you 15 recent drafts and one, ONE, QB has won the Super Bowl. ONE. There are 53 individuals in that locker room who have emotions, and desires, and wills to either give up or give it all. You keep wanting them to give up. It was Tom Coughlin who told me "Losing, like winning, is contagious." Do you ever notice how good teams find ways to win, while bad teams find ways to lose?

 

Losing is for losers. There's no other way to spin it. Losing is for losers. Nobody will ever dislodge me from that opinion.

 

REgards.........the Chiefjag

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Did you ever think that's because the number of Quarterbacks taken 1st overall are a lot lower than the number of Quarterbacks not taken first overall?  The success rate of 1st overall pick QB's is a bit higher than QB's not taken number one.  


This organization isn't going to find success this year.  Not with Chad Henne leading the team.  He is the blind leading the blind at this point. Tennessee had to play some of their worst football in years for us to beat them by two points.  That's not success.  That is having a game handed to you on a platter.  Furthermore, can you not find success within the team without winning? There can be individual successes on this team.


But I suppose you'd be happy with any gift wrapped wins we get the rest of this year.  I for one, won't.  The only wins I will be happy with is where both teams play their hardest.  And I don't see those type of wins coming this year. 

 

I'll be happy with any kind of success, but no I don't expect a lot of wins going forward. However I think viewing wins as anything but good is crazy.

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Exactly. 

 

But a lot of people on this forum can't see the forest through the trees. They likey them some of those meaningless wins in already dead seasons that give you a 4-12 record rather than a 1-15 record, and then the only benefit that comes from that is missing out on the best of prospects and continuing  the long term mediocrity. 

 

The main benefit from going 4-12 vs 1-15 is that you are a better team by 3 victories.   And that means you are 3 wins closer to the playoffs in terms of what kind of team you have.   That's what some people seem to be missing.   The number of games you win is a direct reflection of the quality of team you have.  

 

There are a lot of teams that go to the playoffs and win the Super Bowl without ever having the #1 pick in the draft.   They are simply managing their personnel better than other teams.   They do it year after year, and they maintain the quality level of their team. 

 

There are also a lot of great quarterbacks that were not selected #1 overall in the draft.  

 

Having a really bad team in order to get the first pick in the draft is not a holy grail that you want to wish for.   Even if you manage to hit on the pick, which is by no means assured, you still stink.  You got one good player, yes.  But that's not enough, and it's not even necessary.  

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You keep cherry picking Troy Aikman. Dude that was 30 years ago when power football was the formula for success. Who did Troy have running behind him again? Oh that's right, Emmitt Smith. He also had Alvin Harper, Moose Johnson, Jay Novacek, Mike Irvin, Deion Sanders, Rocket Ismail, Joey Galloway. You keep insisting the #1 pick is going to turn into Troy freakin Aikman.

 

I gave you 15 recent drafts and one, ONE, QB has won the Super Bowl. ONE. There are 53 individuals in that locker room who have emotions, and desires, and wills to either give up or give it all. You keep wanting them to give up. It was Tom Coughlin who told me "Losing, like winning, is contagious." Do you ever notice how good teams find ways to win, while bad teams find ways to lose?

 

Losing is for losers. There's no other way to spin it. Losing is for losers. Nobody will ever dislodge me from that opinion.

 

REgards.........the Chiefjag

 

Agree 100%

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If you really look back, it was poor drafting not poor draft positions that had us stuck in no mans land. Take Ben instead of Reggie, take Suggs instead of Leftwhich, take  Wilson instead of Anger, and so on

Wilson is 100% completely hindsight.  Taking Anger was dumb.  But to say we should have picked Wilson is hindsight.  Might as well say we should have picked Tom Brady instead of Emanuel Smith.  With the benefit of hindsight it's easy to do things better.  GM's do not have that opportunity.


You can also say: Imagine we were in a position to draft Andrew Luck.

 

Bad drafting has hurt us.  But position hasn't helped either.  Without hindsight, what Quarterbacks were available to Gene Smith?  In 2009 the first QB taken after our pick?  Josh Freeman.  2010?  Tim Tebow.  2011?  Christian Ponder.  Some of which wasn't a matter of draft position.  But when a QB did become available, we weren't in a position to get them, and were stuck with the one Gene went with (whereas now, Caldwell decided to wait and passed on Geno Smith).  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I will say this.  If the scenario is that Caldwell believes Bridgewater is a once in 20 year prospect and the wins put him out of position to get him, the wins are not only meaningless, but likely bad for the future of the franchise (especially if it does turn out that he's a superstar). 

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If you really look back, it was poor drafting not poor draft positions that had us stuck in no mans land. Take Ben instead of Reggie, take Suggs instead of Leftwhich, take  Wilson instead of Anger, and so on

Yes....that's what I meant by a good GM making the right decisions to get us unstuck. We've been stuck on stupid for too long in my opinion. The higher the draft pick, the better your odds are. That goes double if you have a good GM with foresight which I hope and believe Caldwell is. Can you find a gem in the 3rd round or 6th. Yes. There's Wilson and Brady. What are your odds though? Might as well put all your money on #27 in roulette

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I'll be happy with any kind of success, but no I don't expect a lot of wins going forward. However I think viewing wins as anything but good is crazy.

And therein lies the difference between us.


The win against the Titans give us zero hope for the future.  What does it do?  Convince the locker room that "Hey, maybe we should try winning more often!"  seriously?.  These are players who were at the top of their game in college.  They were born to win.  They don't need to learn it.  They don't need to be surrounded by a culture of it.  What they need is the talent to be able to win.  And that's what they don't have.  Winning games against teams that aren't playing their best isn't going to make this team any better than it is.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Wilson is 100% completely hindsight.  Taking Anger was dumb.  But to say we should have picked Wilson is hindsight.  Might as well say we should have picked Tom Brady instead of Emanuel Smith.  With the benefit of hindsight it's easy to do things better.  GM's do not have that opportunity.


You can also say: Imagine we were in a position to draft Andrew Luck.

 

Bad drafting has hurt us.  But position hasn't helped either.  Without hindsight, what Quarterbacks were available to Gene Smith?  In 2009 the first QB taken after our pick?  Josh Freeman.  2010?  Tim Tebow.  2011?  Christian Ponder.  Some of which wasn't a matter of draft position.  But when a QB did become available, we weren't in a position to get them, and were stuck with the one Gene went with (whereas now, Caldwell decided to wait and passed on Geno Smith).  

 

Andy Dalton was sitting pretty in the 2nd round, you can call Wilson hindsight but there was people calling for him before the draft. Kaepernick was available when the Jags drafted. I can do this all day long, it's bad SELECTIONS not POSITIONS that make teams good or bad.

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Jaguars lose, TMD mad

 

Jaguars win, TMD mad

 

Good schtick you got going bro.

Hey, hes consistent, so you gotta give him that.

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60% of the time, It works Everytime...



 

And therein lies the difference between us.


The win against the Titans give us zero hope for the future.  What does it do?  Convince the locker room that "Hey, maybe we should try winning more often!"  seriously?.  These are players who were at the top of their game in college.  They were born to win.  They don't need to learn it.  They don't need to be surrounded by a culture of it.  What they need is the talent to be able to win.  And that's what they don't have.  Winning games against teams that aren't playing their best isn't going to make this team any better than it is.  

 

It's not that simple, you don't just plug in a player with more skill points and instantly get better, otherwise all the Free Agents teams bring in every year would work.

Absolutely they have to learn how to win at the NFL level, you think because Grazt and Cyp. where good at college ball they know how to win in the NFL? How do you then explain Tebow? All he did was win in college.................

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And therein lies the difference between us.


The win against the Titans give us zero hope for the future.  What does it do?  Convince the locker room that "Hey, maybe we should try winning more often!"  seriously?.  These are players who were at the top of their game in college.  They were born to win.  They don't need to learn it.  They don't need to be surrounded by a culture of it.  What they need is the talent to be able to win.  And that's what they don't have.  Winning games against teams that aren't playing their best isn't going to make this team any better than it is.  

actually the win gives us more hope for the future. meaning they actually have talent to win rather than wait for it.

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Andy Dalton was sitting pretty in the 2nd round, you can call Wilson hindsight but there was people calling for him before the draft. Kaepernick was available when the Jags drafted. I can do this all day long, it's bad SELECTIONS not POSITIONS that make teams good or bad.

 

Andy Dalton isn't looking that great, and neither is Kaepernick to be honest.  Wilson is 100% hindsight.  I'm not sure how you can say otherwise.  Sure there were people calling for him in the draft.  There were people calling for Matt Scott in the 3rd Round last year!  The fact is if we had taken Wilson in the second a lot of people would have called it a reach before they saw him actually play.  

 

 

It's not that simple, you don't just plug in a player with more skill points and instantly get better, otherwise all the Free Agents teams bring in every year would work.

Absolutely they have to learn how to win at the NFL level, you think because Grazt and Cyp. where good at college ball they know how to win in the NFL? How do you then explain Tebow? All he did was win in college.................

 

No, they don't have to learn to win at the NFL level.  You don't 'learn' to win.  He who must not be named won a lot at the NFL level too.  Why wasn't he more successful?  Because he didn't have the skills necessary at this level.  It's as simple as that.


You don't plug in a player with more skill points and then get better.  But you don't have to learn to win either.  These are professional athletes.  They know how to win.  

 

 

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actually the win gives us more hope for the future. meaning they actually have talent to win rather than wait for it.


 

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If the Titans had actually come to play, and were playing hard, I'd agree with that.  But they didn't.  They played like garbage, and we still barely won.  When a team plays like that and it's a tough fought win it's not a sign of hope for the future.  It's a sign of hope that we have the talent to win when we beat a team who's playing their best.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

It's not like this really matters, they're NOT going to win many more games, I'd be surprised if we did win 1 or 2 more. If they some how improve and win 4-5 more I'll be thrilled, that would just mean we found some guys to build around.

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Andy Dalton was sitting pretty in the 2nd round, you can call Wilson hindsight but there was people calling for him before the draft. Kaepernick was available when the Jags drafted. I can do this all day long, it's bad SELECTIONS not POSITIONS that make teams good or bad.

It's both.

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Of the last 15 drafts here are the QB's selected #1 overall. You tell me if losing now is worth the continued disappointment of not getting better. And before you say well Bridgewater or Mariota or Manziel are light years better you can't verify that based upon college stats because all of these guys were "can't miss" prospects.

 

Tim Couch

Mike Vick

David Carr

Carson Palmer

Eli Manning

Alex Smith

Jamarcus Russell

Matt Stafford

Sam Bradford

Cam Newton

Andrew Luck

 

If you're looking to continue losing so we get the #1 pick for QB you're rolling the dice at the expense of continuing developing a losing culture in the locker room. Of that list only Eli Manning has won a Super Bowl and that's mostly due to good coaching and defense. Many here would not consider Eli even elite.

 

Of that list I would only consider Eli, Luck, and Stafford worth losing for and they are already NFL proven, not college propect.

 

Regards............the Chiefjag

 

 

You keep cherry picking Troy Aikman. Dude that was 30 years ago when power football was the formula for success. Who did Troy have running behind him again? Oh that's right, Emmitt Smith. He also had Alvin Harper, Moose Johnson, Jay Novacek, Mike Irvin, Deion Sanders, Rocket Ismail, Joey Galloway. You keep insisting the #1 pick is going to turn into Troy freakin Aikman.

 

I gave you 15 recent drafts and one, ONE, QB has won the Super Bowl. ONE. There are 53 individuals in that locker room who have emotions, and desires, and wills to either give up or give it all. You keep wanting them to give up. It was Tom Coughlin who told me "Losing, like winning, is contagious." Do you ever notice how good teams find ways to win, while bad teams find ways to lose?

 

Losing is for losers. There's no other way to spin it. Losing is for losers. Nobody will ever dislodge me from that opinion.

 

REgards.........the Chiefjag

 

No, the Aikman comparison is a good one because at that time Aikman was seen as one of the better QB prospects available for at least a few years either side of when he was drafted. 

 

Of the list you provide above, how many of those QB are the kind of prospect Bridgewater is? 

 

Maybe Newton and Luck. Thats pretty much it. Stafford wasn't even seen as the kind of elite prospect that Bridgewater is. 

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actually the win gives us more hope for the future. meaning they actually have talent to win rather than wait for it.

 

smh.....lol.....

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And therein lies the difference between us.


The win against the Titans give us zero hope for the future.  What does it do?  Convince the locker room that "Hey, maybe we should try winning more often!"  seriously?.  These are players who were at the top of their game in college.  They were born to win.  They don't need to learn it.  They don't need to be surrounded by a culture of it.  What they need is the talent to be able to win.  And that's what they don't have.  Winning games against teams that aren't playing their best isn't going to make this team any better than it is.  

 

I hear ya....

 

The Jags beat a terrible Titans team, and all of a sudden its enough to make these people start going crazy around here....

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