The Dem leadership in Minnesota seems content to let it burn.  The firemen stood down and the cops ran away and let their precinct burn.  Protests are spreading to other cities, including Jacksonville.

Our governor has a spine, so I would expect him to be out in front of this as far as the national guard is concerned.

---

The Dem leadership in Minnesota seems content to let it burn.  The firemen stood down and the cops ran away and let their precinct burn.  Protests are spreading to other cities, including Jacksonville.

Protesting is one thing.  Rioting and looting is another.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

The firemen stood down and the cops ran away and let their precinct burn.

Good luck getting police and fire in close enough to fight the blaze in the first place, let alone get in the equipment they'd have needed to fight it effectively. A building is bricks and mortar that can be replaced. The lives of firefighters and good cops can't.

---

You assume that this guy wasnt already properly trained. That's not so.

Incorrect on several fronts. 

1. I didn't assume jack [BLEEP]. 

2. Whether or not he was initially trained well is irrelevant because:
   a -  it didn't work - so what does "properly" mean exactly -  he acted outside of his training
   b - additional training is what I'm suggesting and it was clearly needed

3. He was trained to place his knee between the prisoner's shoulder blades - not on his neck/throat - this is straight from the Minn. P.D.  

4. The secondary point of additional (augmented)  training is about community relations which I've repeated a half dozen times now

5. The other thing I'm repeating to mostly deaf ears is vetting improvements - and this guy clearly is a poster boy for improved vetting when you see his complaint record. 

Again - what's so terrible about adding an element of training on a broad scale that seeks to prevent this kind of misstep from happening?   
Not a damn thing. 

And what's so bad about doubling down on weeding out officers unfit to wear the badge? 
Not a damn thing. 

These are just such sensible suggestions that are necessary to repair a widespread mistrust. 
Various departments have implemented such measures before to moderate temporary success within their communities -  and this is a prime time for a larger and more widespread effort.

Mistrust based on misinformation can only be rectified through correct information.  

As Thomas Sowell points out, in these instances not only is no evidence presented, none is asked for.  Its just assumed that because the officers were white (and one asian) that their actions were because of "white supremacy" etc.  That makes no sense outside the SJW echo chamber.

---

If my hair is red and u think its blue do I need to go to a hair dresser or do u need glasses.  

Theres strong statistical evidence that white officers are LESS likely than their black counterparts to use deadly force, especially when the subject is a minority.  So the entire narrative and premise is on shaky ground, and with all the violence and looting it falls apart.  

No one is condoning what this guy did and that's the problem.  There is no systemic or political solution to a singularity!

How in the world can you consider this a singularity?

I passed stats class?

---

The Dem leadership in Minnesota seems content to let it burn.  The firemen stood down and the cops ran away and let their precinct burn.  Protests are spreading to other cities, including Jacksonville.

What do u expect?  This helps advance their core narrative and at the same time absolves them of blame.

---

The firemen stood down and the cops ran away and let their precinct burn.

Good luck getting police and fire in close enough to fight the blaze in the first place, let alone get in the equipment they'd have needed to fight it effectively. A building is bricks and mortar that can be replaced. The lives of firefighters and good cops can't.

As Rudy Giuliani points out, that's why you never let it get that far!

---

C'mon now. The proper way to deal with this is to file charges and put the bad actor on trial. The implication the police force across the USA is a bunch of racists who need reform based on a minuscule number of these infractions isn't the way to go about it.

LOL
I’m a broken record in this thread. 

Of course the guy will see charges and trial. 

I’m talking about addressing public mistrust by augmenting training already in place with an element that educates officers on avoiding such p.r. Nightmares. 
I don’t care if it’s somewhat  redundant - I don’t care if you think it implies  something that it really doesn’t. 
THERE IS NO HARM IN IMPROVING POLICE OFFICERS’ TRAINING. None

C’mon indeed. .

You are suggesting these things occur because of racism. I am saying they occur because of corruption. You are not suggesting anything worthwhile. Your focus on race is unprovable. It is a talking point propagated by people who depend on it for their careers. Millions of blacks believe they have a high chance of dying when they are confronted by a police officer and the evidence just doesn't support it. I showed you evidence that suggests otherwise, which would mean that race is not main factor involved here. You counter with the idea that we can't know what's in a person's heart. That's not fantastic insight. It's a boogieman.You make this claim without at all questioning whether or not the narrative itself is a contributing factor in deteriorating racial relations. 

I believe police officers can be corrupt. I'm not some ideologue that thinks all cops are great people. I have had dozens of encounters with police in my life, and I can think of 5 (out of probably 50) that weren't unpleasant. Cops are [BLEEP] 90% of the time. However, when I have a bad encounter with a cop, I haven't had a lifetime of lies flung in my direction that cause me to believe the cops have it out for me due to any external factor. I rationally deduce that either a certain amount of power corrupts most people or that certain personality types are drawn to positions of power.  This is far more likely the explanation for why cops are often [BLEEP] to ALL people. Cops have too much power. The difference between your position and mine is that I KNOW police can be corrupt. I can get on board with wanting to reform how the police interact with citizens. I just don't think you get to use a boogieman (race), that actually harms the public psyche.

---

Did anyone think Keith Ellison was going to just let this slide? I didnt like them but u knew Eric Holder was going to double check behind mike Brown, Garner etc.

U protest in the absence of power, black Americans have agency in this country.

---

LOL
I’m a broken record in this thread. 

Of course the guy will see charges and trial. 

I’m talking about addressing public mistrust by augmenting training already in place with an element that educates officers on avoiding such p.r. Nightmares. 
I don’t care if it’s somewhat  redundant - I don’t care if you think it implies  something that it really doesn’t. 
THERE IS NO HARM IN IMPROVING POLICE OFFICERS’ TRAINING. None

C’mon indeed. .

You are suggesting these things occur because of racism. I am saying they occur because of corruption. You are not suggesting anything worthwhile. Your focus on race is unprovable. It is a talking point propagated by people who depend on it for their careers. Millions of blacks believe they have a high chance of dying when they are confronted by a police officer and the evidence just doesn't support it. I showed you evidence that suggests otherwise, which would mean that race is not main factor involved here. You counter with the idea that we can't know what's in a person's heart. That's not fantastic insight. It's a boogieman.You make this claim without at all questioning whether or not the narrative itself is a contributing factor in deteriorating racial relations. 

I believe police officers can be corrupt. I'm not some ideologue that thinks all cops are great people. I have had dozens of encounters with police in my life, and I can think of 5 (out of probably 50) that weren't unpleasant. Cops are [BLEEP] 90% of the time. However, when I have a bad encounter with a cop, I haven't had a lifetime of lies flung in my direction that cause me to believe the cops have it out for me due to any external factor. I rationally deduce that either a certain amount of power corrupts most people or that certain personality types are drawn to positions of power.  This is far more likely the explanation for why cops are often [BLEEP] to ALL people. Cops have too much power. The difference between your position and mine is that I KNOW police can be corrupt. I can get on board with wanting to reform how the police interact with citizens. I just don't think you get to use a boogieman (race), that actually harms the public psyche.

When was it, exactly, in the history of America, when race suddenly became a fictional 'boogieman' and not a massive influence on how society is shaped, and how people treat each other within society?

---

Incorrect on several fronts. 

1. I didn't assume jack [BLEEP]. 

2. Whether or not he was initially trained well is irrelevant because:
   a -  it didn't work - so what does "properly" mean exactly -  he acted outside of his training
   b - additional training is what I'm suggesting and it was clearly needed

3. He was trained to place his knee between the prisoner's shoulder blades - not on his neck/throat - this is straight from the Minn. P.D.  

4. The secondary point of additional (augmented)  training is about community relations which I've repeated a half dozen times now

5. The other thing I'm repeating to mostly deaf ears is vetting improvements - and this guy clearly is a poster boy for improved vetting when you see his complaint record. 

Again - what's so terrible about adding an element of training on a broad scale that seeks to prevent this kind of misstep from happening?   
Not a damn thing. 

And what's so bad about doubling down on weeding out officers unfit to wear the badge? 
Not a damn thing. 

These are just such sensible suggestions that are necessary to repair a widespread mistrust. 
Various departments have implemented such measures before to moderate temporary success within their communities -  and this is a prime time for a larger and more widespread effort.

Mistrust based on misinformation can only be rectified through correct information.  

As Thomas Sowell points out, in these instances not only is no evidence presented, none is asked for.  Its just assumed that because the officers were white (and one asian) that their actions were because of "white supremacy" etc.  That makes no sense outside the SJW echo chamber.

---

How in the world can you consider this a singularity?

I passed stats class?

---

Bring back the like feature please.

---

You are suggesting these things occur because of racism. I am saying they occur because of corruption. You are not suggesting anything worthwhile. Your focus on race is unprovable. It is a talking point propagated by people who depend on it for their careers. Millions of blacks believe they have a high chance of dying when they are confronted by a police officer and the evidence just doesn't support it. I showed you evidence that suggests otherwise, which would mean that race is not main factor involved here. You counter with the idea that we can't know what's in a person's heart. That's not fantastic insight. It's a boogieman.You make this claim without at all questioning whether or not the narrative itself is a contributing factor in deteriorating racial relations. 

I believe police officers can be corrupt. I'm not some ideologue that thinks all cops are great people. I have had dozens of encounters with police in my life, and I can think of 5 (out of probably 50) that weren't unpleasant. Cops are [BLEEP] 90% of the time. However, when I have a bad encounter with a cop, I haven't had a lifetime of lies flung in my direction that cause me to believe the cops have it out for me due to any external factor. I rationally deduce that either a certain amount of power corrupts most people or that certain personality types are drawn to positions of power.  This is far more likely the explanation for why cops are often [BLEEP] to ALL people. Cops have too much power. The difference between your position and mine is that I KNOW police can be corrupt. I can get on board with wanting to reform how the police interact with citizens. I just don't think you get to use a boogieman (race), that actually harms the public psyche.

When was it, exactly, in the history of America, when race suddenly became a fictional 'boogieman' and not a massive influence on how society is shaped, and how people treat each other within society?

Context matters. Try again.

---

Mistrust based on misinformation can only be rectified through correct information.  

As Thomas Sowell points out, in these instances not only is no evidence presented, none is asked for.  Its just assumed that because the officers were white (and one asian) that their actions were because of "white supremacy" etc.  That makes no sense outside the SJW echo chamber.

---

I passed stats class?

---

Bring back the like feature please.

---

When was it, exactly, in the history of America, when race suddenly became a fictional 'boogieman' and not a massive influence on how society is shaped, and how people treat each other within society?

Context matters. Try again.

Try answering the question.

---

Kneeling officer arrested & charged with 3rd degree murder & manslaughter.

---

I'll play you in ping pong. 

LOL
I’m a broken record in this thread. 

Of course the guy will see charges and trial. 

I’m talking about addressing public mistrust by augmenting training already in place with an element that educates officers on avoiding such p.r. Nightmares. 
I don’t care if it’s somewhat  redundant - I don’t care if you think it implies  something that it really doesn’t. 
THERE IS NO HARM IN IMPROVING POLICE OFFICERS’ TRAINING. None

C’mon indeed. .

You are suggesting these things occur because of racism. I am saying they occur because of corruption. You are not suggesting anything worthwhile. Your focus on race is unprovable. It is a talking point propagated by people who depend on it for their careers. Millions of blacks believe they have a high chance of dying when they are confronted by a police officer and the evidence just doesn't support it. I showed you evidence that suggests otherwise, which would mean that race is not main factor involved here. You counter with the idea that we can't know what's in a person's heart. That's not fantastic insight. It's a boogieman.You make this claim without at all questioning whether or not the narrative itself is a contributing factor in deteriorating racial relations. 

I believe police officers can be corrupt. I'm not some ideologue that thinks all cops are great people. I have had dozens of encounters with police in my life, and I can think of 5 (out of probably 50) that weren't unpleasant. Cops are [BLEEP] 90% of the time. However, when I have a bad encounter with a cop, I haven't had a lifetime of lies flung in my direction that cause me to believe the cops have it out for me due to any external factor. I rationally deduce that either a certain amount of power corrupts most people or that certain personality types are drawn to positions of power.  This is far more likely the explanation for why cops are often [BLEEP] to ALL people. Cops have too much power. The difference between your position and mine is that I KNOW police can be corrupt. I can get on board with wanting to reform how the police interact with citizens. I just don't think you get to use a boogieman (race), that actually harms the public psyche.

Out of curiosity, were you able to find more updated statistics past 2015? I’m genuinely curious

---

Kneeling officer arrested & charged with 3rd degree murder & manslaughter.

Sounds about right.  The murder charge may be hard to prove, but the manslaughter charge should stick.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Kneeling officer arrested & charged with 3rd degree murder & manslaughter.

U know....  they could have arrested him earlier.  U can always release him, but it's hard to rebuild a city.  

Also, those charges are sticking.  I think the delay was waiting on the autopsy.

---

Kneeling officer arrested & charged with 3rd degree murder & manslaughter.

Sounds about right.  The murder charge may be hard to prove, but the manslaughter charge should stick.

If hes smart hell plea.

---

You are suggesting these things occur because of racism. I am saying they occur because of corruption. You are not suggesting anything worthwhile. Your focus on race is unprovable. It is a talking point propagated by people who depend on it for their careers. Millions of blacks believe they have a high chance of dying when they are confronted by a police officer and the evidence just doesn't support it. I showed you evidence that suggests otherwise, which would mean that race is not main factor involved here. You counter with the idea that we can't know what's in a person's heart. That's not fantastic insight. It's a boogieman.You make this claim without at all questioning whether or not the narrative itself is a contributing factor in deteriorating racial relations. 

I believe police officers can be corrupt. I'm not some ideologue that thinks all cops are great people. I have had dozens of encounters with police in my life, and I can think of 5 (out of probably 50) that weren't unpleasant. Cops are [BLEEP] 90% of the time. However, when I have a bad encounter with a cop, I haven't had a lifetime of lies flung in my direction that cause me to believe the cops have it out for me due to any external factor. I rationally deduce that either a certain amount of power corrupts most people or that certain personality types are drawn to positions of power.  This is far more likely the explanation for why cops are often [BLEEP] to ALL people. Cops have too much power. The difference between your position and mine is that I KNOW police can be corrupt. I can get on board with wanting to reform how the police interact with citizens. I just don't think you get to use a boogieman (race), that actually harms the public psyche.

When was it, exactly, in the history of America, when race suddenly became a fictional 'boogieman' and not a massive influence on how society is shaped, and how people treat each other within society?

What evidence is there race had anything to do with this case?

---

Kneeling officer arrested & charged with 3rd degree murder & manslaughter.

Sounds about right.  The murder charge may be hard to prove, but the manslaughter charge should stick.

I'm honestly curious to know how this is not murder. Murder is intentional and manslaughter isn't? I suppose it's the definitions of murder and manslaughter that make it different. I need to look them up to clarify. Then you have the levels of degree that further defines the crime and determines the punishment. 

In my opinion that cop straight up killed that man. Regardless of what happened before the camera started rolling, the man was restrained on the ground with a knee in his throat and two other officers holding him down. Even if the guy had been tripping on PCP, there was no reason for the cop to kneel on his throat for four minutes. None.

---

Sounds about right.  The murder charge may be hard to prove, but the manslaughter charge should stick.

I'm honestly curious to know how this is not murder. Murder is intentional and manslaughter isn't? I suppose it's the definitions of murder and manslaughter that make it different. I need to look them up to clarify. Then you have the levels of degree that further defines the crime and determines the punishment. 

In my opinion that cop straight up killed that man. Regardless of what happened before the camera started rolling, the man was restrained on the ground with a knee in his throat and two other officers holding him down. Even if the guy had been tripping on PCP, there was no reason for the cop to kneel on his throat for four minutes. None.

That's why hes hoing to jail, just a question of how long and what to call it.  

The situation MAY have been clouded by the autopsy.  Of he died of heart attack or anything other tha n actual damage to his airway then INTENT would have been a challenge, but criminal negligence is in plain sight.

---

Still confirming, but if true, not a good look.

Maybe by now you've seen some dude dressed up in black setting fire to an Autozone and breaking windows & inciting violence - he's currently being doxxed as a St. Paul police officer. St. Paul PD says it's untrue

---

I'll play you in ping pong. 

LOL
I’m a broken record in this thread. 

Of course the guy will see charges and trial. 

I’m talking about addressing public mistrust by augmenting training already in place with an element that educates officers on avoiding such p.r. Nightmares. 
I don’t care if it’s somewhat  redundant - I don’t care if you think it implies  something that it really doesn’t. 
THERE IS NO HARM IN IMPROVING POLICE OFFICERS’ TRAINING. None

C’mon indeed. .

You are suggesting these things occur because of racism. I am saying they occur because of corruption. You are not suggesting anything worthwhile. Your focus on race is unprovable. It is a talking point propagated by people who depend on it for their careers. Millions of blacks believe they have a high chance of dying when they are confronted by a police officer and the evidence just doesn't support it. I showed you evidence that suggests otherwise, which would mean that race is not main factor involved here. You counter with the idea that we can't know what's in a person's heart. That's not fantastic insight. It's a boogieman.You make this claim without at all questioning whether or not the narrative itself is a contributing factor in deteriorating racial relations. 

I believe police officers can be corrupt. I'm not some ideologue that thinks all cops are great people. I have had dozens of encounters with police in my life, and I can think of 5 (out of probably 50) that weren't unpleasant. Cops are [BLEEP] 90% of the time. However, when I have a bad encounter with a cop, I haven't had a lifetime of lies flung in my direction that cause me to believe the cops have it out for me due to any external factor. I rationally deduce that either a certain amount of power corrupts most people or that certain personality types are drawn to positions of power.  This is far more likely the explanation for why cops are often [BLEEP] to ALL people. Cops have too much power. The difference between your position and mine is that I KNOW police can be corrupt. I can get on board with wanting to reform how the police interact with citizens. I just don't think you get to use a boogieman (race), that actually harms the public psyche.

Wow

I have never seen such horrible reading comprehension in my life

I am not the one focused on race, you are. 

There is a racial element to the division between police and public trust right now in our country.
It is the need to repair this miss trust and what it may lead to that drives me to making these most practical suggestions. 

It does not matter if this particular incident was racially motivated or not, and it does not matter how many incidents of the past were or were not racially motivated. 

If simple measures that only serve to improve our police departments can help bridge the gap across this division, they are worth the effort. 

Also, please stop putting words in my mouth and read my posts more carefully before responding.

---

Sounds about right.  The murder charge may be hard to prove, but the manslaughter charge should stick.

I'm honestly curious to know how this is not murder. Murder is intentional and manslaughter isn't? I suppose it's the definitions of murder and manslaughter that make it different. I need to look them up to clarify. Then you have the levels of degree that further defines the crime and determines the punishment. 

In my opinion that cop straight up killed that man. Regardless of what happened before the camera started rolling, the man was restrained on the ground with a knee in his throat and two other officers holding him down. Even if the guy had been tripping on PCP, there was no reason for the cop to kneel on his throat for four minutes. None.

It goes back to the statute regarding the charge.  Remember, this is state law that we are talking about, not federal law.  This is how the statute reads for Minnesota law.

(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

The key part is in bold.  Remember, the cop is presumed innocent until proven guilty.  The part in bold has to be proven by the prosecution beyond reasonable doubt to convince a jury to convict.

Now I agree with you that the cop with the knee to the throat had a part in killing the man.  However, it's not known what exactly he died of.  The other thing that is missing is how/why he was taken down to the ground and restrained.  There has to be a reason why he was being held down by 3 police officers and why the officer charged was using that method to restrain him.  That part of what happened hasn't been presented yet to the court of public opinion.

Did he resist and start kicking and spitting?  Remember, he was a very large man and with COVID being "a thing" his possible spitting could have been perceived as a threat.  Did the officer feel that his life or another was in danger due to the actions of the suspect?  Is that why he used such an aggressive tactic?  Was the suspect under the influence of some kind of substance?

Much of the general public as well as much of the media have already made a determination based on a few publicly released video clips without looking at all of the facts and all of the evidence.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

You are suggesting these things occur because of racism. I am saying they occur because of corruption. You are not suggesting anything worthwhile. Your focus on race is unprovable. It is a talking point propagated by people who depend on it for their careers. Millions of blacks believe they have a high chance of dying when they are confronted by a police officer and the evidence just doesn't support it. I showed you evidence that suggests otherwise, which would mean that race is not main factor involved here. You counter with the idea that we can't know what's in a person's heart. That's not fantastic insight. It's a boogieman.You make this claim without at all questioning whether or not the narrative itself is a contributing factor in deteriorating racial relations. 

I believe police officers can be corrupt. I'm not some ideologue that thinks all cops are great people. I have had dozens of encounters with police in my life, and I can think of 5 (out of probably 50) that weren't unpleasant. Cops are [BLEEP] 90% of the time. However, when I have a bad encounter with a cop, I haven't had a lifetime of lies flung in my direction that cause me to believe the cops have it out for me due to any external factor. I rationally deduce that either a certain amount of power corrupts most people or that certain personality types are drawn to positions of power.  This is far more likely the explanation for why cops are often [BLEEP] to ALL people. Cops have too much power. The difference between your position and mine is that I KNOW police can be corrupt. I can get on board with wanting to reform how the police interact with citizens. I just don't think you get to use a boogieman (race), that actually harms the public psyche.

Wow

I have never seen such horrible reading comprehension in my life

I am not the one focused on race, you are. 

There is a racial element to the division between police and public trust right now in our country.
It is the need to repair this miss trust and what it may lead to that drives me to making these most practical suggestions. 

It does not matter if this particular incident was racially motivated or not, and it does not matter how many incidents of the path were or were not racially motivated. 

If simple measures that only serve to improve our police departments can help bridge the gap across this division, they are worth the effort. 

Also, please stop putting words in my mouth and read my posts more carefully before responding.

Logical solutions to imaginary problems.  #progressivism

---

Still confirming, but if true, not a good look.

Maybe by now you've seen some dude dressed up in black setting fire to an Autozone and breaking windows & inciting violence - he's currently being doxxed as a St. Paul police officer. St. Paul PD says it's untrue

I'm skeptical about this one. It's been on my Twitter feed since last night. The guy is wearing heavy clothing and heavy facial gear including a gas mask. He is definitely white, and definitely looks out of place as he walks around calmly smashing windows of the Autozone. There was an immediate surge on Twitter posting pictures of the pig pinning Floyd's neck to the ground and identifying him as a known white supremacist, and those were quickly proven untrue. There's even less evidence here connecting the two. It looks like someone just trolled Facebook pictures of police officers in/around MSP and found one who looks vaguely similar from a distance, then went with that.

---