CNN is doing its best to paint Trump as the aggressor here. This is despicable.

That's not really true.   I think CNN is painting Trump as foolish.   Which is certainly debatable.   I don't think it's wise to issue threats when we are not in any position to back them up.   We don't have enough assets in place right now, and it could take months to move them into place.   So any threats right now by us are empty threats, and that only makes us look bad.

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No source more reliable than NK itself, right?

Here's my thing: we can't shoot first. We have the most advanced missile guidance systems in the world. We need to wait for one to go up that has the right trajectory and flight path to hit a US interest, then use our defense systems to knock it down and respond with immediate surgical strikes against nuclear weapons facilities, military infrastructure and equipment, known launch sites and, hell, why not Kim Jong Un himself? If we shoot first, it's American aggression, imperialism, blah blah blah whatever NK wants to call it to draw Russia and China in. If we shoot down a missile then go headhunting, we can credibly stand before the world and say that considering NK's words and actions, they're lucky we stopped there.

My fear is that we shoot first or dramatically over-retaliate, perhaps with nuclear weapons, making it very hard for a behemoth like the United States to defend its actions on the world stage. I don't know that China or Russia would take up arms, but they would certainly impose economic penalties of their own and push the UN to do the same. Whatever happens, I hope nuclear weapons aren't involved. Their destruction is too indiscriminate and devastating to the environment to be justified when we can slide a bomb right through Kim Jong Un's bedroom window and take out the palace without scratching the paint on a car parked across the street. I hope that Mattis has more sense than to push for a nuclear strike, and if he doesn't, I hope Trump and Kelly have the stones to tell him no.

It would certainly make things easier if he gives us no choice.   One way for him to do that would be for him to strike at us first. 

As for the nuclear option, I would be opposed to a first strike or pre-emptive strike with nuclear weapons, but if anyone throws a nuclear weapon at us, we should hit them with a nuclear weapon.   That's our long-standing policy, and we should state it quite clearly, any use of nuclear weapons against us will be met with nuclear retaliation.  What's the alternative?   Conventional retaliation involves trillions of dollars of expense, and tens of thousands of American casualties.

As for your scenario, I think it's highly unlikely that Kim would launch a missile at us and then go to sleep in his own bedroom.  So forget about carrying out a decapitation strike if they launch a missile at us.

Actually, our policy is a nuclear to any WMD attack including chemical or biological. We don't "officially" use either one, so our response is the same in any case using the one WMD we do use.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Okay, here's my take.   There are no good scenarios here.   The one thing we cannot do is allow this to continue, because eventually North Korea will have enough nuclear armed ICBMs to take out the entire United States.  

Whatever Trump decides to do, I pray he has the wisdom and the steadiness and the fortitude to see it through.

I think he needs to go on TV and start explaining this to the American people.  We need to be united.

I also think he needs to quit making threats unless he intends to carry them out.  Because once we get caught bluffing, we're done.  We look like wimps, no one will believe a thing we say, and war is the only solution at that point.   I think it would be a lot wiser to stay silent, pretend to ignore their threats, and move our assets into position.   That would be a much more credible threat that this "fire and fury" talk.   Because right now, we are months away from being able to carry out a successful first strike.  We have to move lots of people and equipment and supplies into position first, and that could take months.   So no matter how much Trump threatens, Kim doesn't believe him, because we are in no position to start a war right now.  

I think the best solution right now involves China.  They don't like NK having ICBMs any more than we do.   War in the area would be very bad for business.  And they certainly don't want to disrupt their economy.  So I would tell them they can have North Korea if they want it.   Just take it.   Obviously, I don't know how to get the Chinese to intervene successfully.   But I think they are the only palatable way out of this, because war between the US and North Korea would mean millions of civilian casualties, a lot of them in South Korea, and severe damage to the world economy.

That reuters article linked earlier in the thread quoted a U.S. official saying that two U.S. bombers took off from Guam and flew over the Korean peninsula as part of their "continuous bomber presence" in the region.  That's why Guam is in the crosshairs, at least verbally, with Un, because of how important it is as a staging point for U.S. military action/retaliation.  But it sounds like bombers may be rotating being in the air at all times meaning if something happens we'll likely be, at the very least, carpet bombing the hell out of parts of NK pretty quickly.

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Some of you are seriously underestimating the time required for the US to have assets on site and the destructive capability of those assets. Little man runs his mouth and puts up missiles only because he has been allowed to so far. If the US decides that we are tired of this or do start to become convinced that the crazy little man might actually do something real and dangerous to us or any American interests the campaign to end NK as any type of military threat to anyone would take no more then 72 hours or so with the use of conventional weapons only.

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

Okay, here's my take.   There are no good scenarios here.   The one thing we cannot do is allow this to continue, because eventually North Korea will have enough nuclear armed ICBMs to take out the entire United States.  

Whatever Trump decides to do, I pray he has the wisdom and the steadiness and the fortitude to see it through.

I think he needs to go on TV and start explaining this to the American people.  We need to be united.

I also think he needs to quit making threats unless he intends to carry them out.  Because once we get caught bluffing, we're done.  We look like wimps, no one will believe a thing we say, and war is the only solution at that point.   I think it would be a lot wiser to stay silent, pretend to ignore their threats, and move our assets into position.   That would be a much more credible threat that this "fire and fury" talk.   Because right now, we are months away from being able to carry out a successful first strike.  We have to move lots of people and equipment and supplies into position first, and that could take months.   So no matter how much Trump threatens, Kim doesn't believe him, because we are in no position to start a war right now.  

I think the best solution right now involves China.  They don't like NK having ICBMs any more than we do.   War in the area would be very bad for business.  And they certainly don't want to disrupt their economy.  So I would tell them they can have North Korea if they want it.   Just take it.   Obviously, I don't know how to get the Chinese to intervene successfully.   But I think they are the only palatable way out of this, because war between the US and North Korea would mean millions of civilian casualties, a lot of them in South Korea, and severe damage to the world economy.

I can tell you we are not months away from having strike capability. Since 1953, the U.S. and allies have continually massaged operational plans for every scenario. Nearly every military piece of equipment has been mapped out and continuously monitored. This isn't your grandfathers Korean War!

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Some of you are seriously underestimating the time required for the US to have assets on site and the destructive capability of those assets. Little man runs his mouth and puts up missiles only because he has been allowed to so far. If the US decides that we are tired of this or do start to become convinced that the crazy little man might actually do something real and dangerous to us or any American interests the campaign to end NK as any type of military threat to anyone would take no more then 72 hours or so with the use of conventional weapons only.

NK already has enough soldiers and armament on the border to push deep into SK within the first week. Because they are such a poor country their supplies would quickly diminish before being pushed back. But there are two important factors you've overlooked: 1) Seoul is within artillery range of the DMZ. Any military action will result in the deaths of millions within the first 3 days. Seoul is NK's ace in the hole. 2) Why did we, in essence, lose the Korean War? Because the Chinese got involved - and will do so again if a shooting war erupts. China does NOT want to share a border with a politically non-aligned country. Especially one allied with the U.S. China drags their feet now because they want NK as a buffer zone.

It's not as simple as wiping out a despot and his ragtag army. There are millions upon millions of lives at stake along with global destabilization.

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Okay, here's my take.   There are no good scenarios here.   The one thing we cannot do is allow this to continue, because eventually North Korea will have enough nuclear armed ICBMs to take out the entire United States.  

Whatever Trump decides to do, I pray he has the wisdom and the steadiness and the fortitude to see it through.

I think he needs to go on TV and start explaining this to the American people.  We need to be united.

I also think he needs to quit making threats unless he intends to carry them out.  Because once we get caught bluffing, we're done.  We look like wimps, no one will believe a thing we say, and war is the only solution at that point.   I think it would be a lot wiser to stay silent, pretend to ignore their threats, and move our assets into position.   That would be a much more credible threat that this "fire and fury" talk.   Because right now, we are months away from being able to carry out a successful first strike.  We have to move lots of people and equipment and supplies into position first, and that could take months.   So no matter how much Trump threatens, Kim doesn't believe him, because we are in no position to start a war right now.  

I think the best solution right now involves China.  They don't like NK having ICBMs any more than we do.   War in the area would be very bad for business.  And they certainly don't want to disrupt their economy.  So I would tell them they can have North Korea if they want it.   Just take it.   Obviously, I don't know how to get the Chinese to intervene successfully.   But I think they are the only palatable way out of this, because war between the US and North Korea would mean millions of civilian casualties, a lot of them in South Korea, and severe damage to the world economy.

I can tell you we are not months away from having strike capability. Since 1953, the U.S. and allies have continually massaged operational plans for every scenario. Nearly every military piece of equipment has been mapped out and continuously monitored. This isn't your grandfathers Korean War!

I don't think we are months away from having strike capability.   I think we are months away from being able to carry out a serious war with North Korea.   No one doubts we could drop a few bombs right now if we wanted to.   But as I read it, most military experts think a war with NK would be long and costly, and would require huge resources that would have to be moved into place.   Our military has loads of assets, but they are spread all over the globe.   Things have to be put in place.  For example, I've read some credible people that say we should have at least 3 aircraft carriers involved if we go after NK.   That alone would take a couple of months to put 3 aircraft carriers in place.

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In Reality, a state of war still exist with NK, we've only been at a cease fire with them since 1953

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Instead of a sign that says "Do Not Disturb" I need one that says "Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution."

Okay, here's my take.   There are no good scenarios here.   The one thing we cannot do is allow this to continue, because eventually North Korea will have enough nuclear armed ICBMs to take out the entire United States.  

Whatever Trump decides to do, I pray he has the wisdom and the steadiness and the fortitude to see it through.

I think he needs to go on TV and start explaining this to the American people.  We need to be united.

I also think he needs to quit making threats unless he intends to carry them out.  Because once we get caught bluffing, we're done.  We look like wimps, no one will believe a thing we say, and war is the only solution at that point.   I think it would be a lot wiser to stay silent, pretend to ignore their threats, and move our assets into position.   That would be a much more credible threat that this "fire and fury" talk.   Because right now, we are months away from being able to carry out a successful first strike.  We have to move lots of people and equipment and supplies into position first, and that could take months.   So no matter how much Trump threatens, Kim doesn't believe him, because we are in no position to start a war right now.  

I think the best solution right now involves China.  They don't like NK having ICBMs any more than we do.   War in the area would be very bad for business.  And they certainly don't want to disrupt their economy.  So I would tell them they can have North Korea if they want it.   Just take it.   Obviously, I don't know how to get the Chinese to intervene successfully.   But I think they are the only palatable way out of this, because war between the US and North Korea would mean millions of civilian casualties, a lot of them in South Korea, and severe damage to the world economy.

That reuters article linked earlier in the thread quoted a U.S. official saying that two U.S. bombers took off from Guam and flew over the Korean peninsula as part of their "continuous bomber presence" in the region.  That's why Guam is in the crosshairs, at least verbally, with Un, because of how important it is as a staging point for U.S. military action/retaliation.  But it sounds like bombers may be rotating being in the air at all times meaning if something happens we'll likely be, at the very least, carpet bombing the hell out of parts of NK pretty quickly.

Two bombers cannot carpet bomb the hell out of anything.   It will require a massive, overwhelming strike to avoid a long and costly war, and that requires an immense amount of staging supplies, weapons, fuel, and the like.   And that takes time.

Look, I'm not saying we shouldn't do it. That decision remains to be made. I'm saying we are nowhere near ready to do it. And the time to get ready is now. All this bluster and bluffing is just that- bull [BLEEP]. Talk softly and carry a big stick. Right now, we're doing the opposite.

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As far as this whole situation goes, these are my thoughts.

1. These reports that we're hearing regarding the capabilities of North Korea...  I'm not sure I buy it completely.  That kind of information is not and should not be public information.  I kind of think that it's more "speculation" than anything else.  I also think that at least a part of it is media hype.  Don't get me wrong, I do think that NK is more advanced technologically than most people think, but I have my doubts about just how far advanced they really are.
   
   
2. The solution to the problem is to put them on notice not only by words and sanctions, but also via actions.  Perhaps conduct a "test" of missile launch capability from a sub right off the coast of NK in international waters.  Conduct joint "exorcises" with other country's navy's and a carrier battle group in international waters in the East China Sea or perhaps the Sea of Japan.
   
   
   
3. The overflight by U.S. military bombers across the Korean peninsula is also a way to show "strength of force".  Perhaps increase the frequency of these with little effort to hide it.
   

In other words, just display a "show of force" and power as a warning.

The thing is, most people don't realize that NK uses propaganda on their own people to "keep them in check".  It has worked very well for a number of years, but with today's technology some of the people of North Korea know better.  Their military, while strong in numbers is armed with out-dated and obsolete equipment and weaponry.  Most of what comes out of North Korea is propaganda.  they might say that they have "so-and-so" capability and might threaten certain areas (in this case Guam), but that doesn't mean that it's true.

The last thing that we want to do is get into a war with them.  While yes, the U.S. and NATO Allies have superior capabilities, going into a war like that would draw in other countries like China and Russia.  A war would absolutely result in vast human casualties and destruction... even if we're talking conventional weapons only.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Usually not a lot of wiggle room for an adversary once the Secretary of Defense makes a formal statement.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releas...im-mattis/

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Usually not a lot of wiggle room for an adversary once the Secretary of Defense makes a formal statement.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releas...im-mattis/

Tell'em Mad Dog!

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Instead of a sign that says "Do Not Disturb" I need one that says "Already Disturbed Proceed With Caution."

I don't advocate preemptive strike and agree we wait until we have no other choice. But when we go in it has to be without remorse without hesitation and in full commitment of victory. Then we go home, we don't rebuild and police for 40 years.

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Usually not a lot of wiggle room for an adversary once the Secretary of Defense makes a formal statement.

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-Releas...im-mattis/

Tell'em Mad Dog!

I agree, he told him like they needed to be told, stern words from an adult, instead of the bombastic "fire and fury" bluster we got from his boss.

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If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

I can tell you we are not months away from having strike capability. Since 1953, the U.S. and allies have continually massaged operational plans for every scenario. Nearly every military piece of equipment has been mapped out and continuously monitored. This isn't your grandfathers Korean War!

I don't think we are months away from having strike capability.   I think we are months away from being able to carry out a serious war with North Korea.   No one doubts we could drop a few bombs right now if we wanted to.   But as I read it, most military experts think a war with NK would be long and costly, and would require huge resources that would have to be moved into place.   Our military has loads of assets, but they are spread all over the globe.   Things have to be put in place.  For example, I've read some credible people that say we should have at least 3 aircraft carriers involved if we go after NK.   That alone would take a couple of months to put 3 aircraft carriers in place.

There is always a plan ready for countries we perceive as a threat...Carriers don't have to sit off the coast of North Korea either, and there is no telling how many under water threats are close enough to strike at any given moment, not to mention Guam has a nice sized AF base capable of launching bombers around the clock, and we have more than enough surface ships carrying cruise missiles within reach of North Korea as well... The real problem is how North Korea would act towards South Korea if we attacked...

I would venture to guess in a first strike against North Korea, we would take out all defensive radar stations, communications facilities, and electrical power plants, military runways, and military supply facilities including fuel stations and weapons depots so we would leave them blind, in the dark, and with no gas for aircraft, military ground vehicles, mobile missile launchers and naval ships and no way to communicate with each other...

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I don't advocate preemptive strike and agree we wait until we have no other choice. But when we go in it has to be without remorse without hesitation and in full commitment of victory. Then we go home, we don't rebuild and police for 40 years.

This.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

The reality of the situation is that NK has to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

Provoking them now before they have full nuclear ballistic missile capability would be the safest thing for this planet in the long run.

Tact and diplomacy has only bought time to allow NK to be this close to being a nuclear capable threat. The world strategy up until this point is proving itself to be a catastrophic failure.

The time for PC talk is over. It's time to draw the line in the sand. If NK is allowed to accomplish what it is on the verge of accomplishing, then an attack by them will become inevitable and the consequence will increase 100 fold.

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NK is China's mad dog they keep chained up. They don't completely control it but they feed it and it protects the back yard. There is no good military solution. Unless...

Unless there's a weapon we have not yet revealed. You gotta think the DoD has been doing something with those 40 years of black budgets totaling trillions of $. Or maybe the Pentagon spent it on hookers and blow and the Chinese are the ones with the space weapons and sharks with lasers.

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How about kinetic bombardment sometimes known as "Rods from God"? Essentially you drop a titanium telephone pole from space with precise targeting. The destruction is massive but local and there's no radioactive fallout. If you had enough of them to take out all the NK nuke launch sites, that would prevent them from nuking anyone but there would still be the problem of 700,000 NK troops and all that conventional artillery pointed south.

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Tell'em Mad Dog!

I agree, he told him like they needed to be told, stern words from an adult, instead of the bombastic "fire and fury" bluster we got from his boss.

You refuse to acknowledgedge how much Obama and Clinton had to do with NK becoming the threat they are today. You try to criticize Trump, but he inherited this problem from past administrations. He didn't create it.

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If NK decides to fire on Guam, we have several allies with THAAD systems. Multiple people trying to shoot down a missile is a good thing, right? NK can't really be THIS dumb, right?

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if north kora fires on the us like its being said doesn't that detroy much of the us,and if so there goes football season. Its being said it might happen mid augest now. mid augest is the week before my birthday.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

Surprised there isn't a thread on this already.

How does everyone feel about the current situation with North Korea? I am curious to hear how anti-Trump people feel about the way he is handling it.

I'm just glad the former president isn't handling this. That would be big trouble.

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What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.