Yes, every team has needs and every team drafts.

 

Who do you pick?

 

Draft Grades

CB Dwayne Gratz - 62.1

OG Larry Warford - 88.3

 

Draft Grades

CB Dwayne Gratz 80.0

OG Larry Warford 75.0

 

Who do you pick?

 

Where did I get those grades?  I pulled them out of my a2s, like all those "grades".

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Yes, every team has needs and every team drafts.

 

Who do you pick?

 

Draft Grades

CB Dwayne Gratz - 62.1

OG Larry Warford - 88.3

 

Didn't realize that the Jaguars used NFL.com for their draft grades.  Here I thought each team had their own scouts who graded players.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

That sounds more like BAP than needs drafting.

 

No it's not. We needed all five defensive backs. Think about it. Rashean Mathis and Derek Cox were free agents. Mathis was not as good as he used to be and demoted to nickel back. Cox was hurt a lot. So yes, we did need two cornerbacks in that draft.  We also lost Dawan Landry in the offseason, so we needed a strong safety. Although we still had Dwight Lowery David Caldwell knew he is not a great free safety and we could do better than him. So in fact we did have to completely rebuild the secondary. We also needed a slot receiver and a backup running back.

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I get why people are bent by the "needs drafting" thing, but when so many positions are depleted of talent, I don't think it's so terrible.  When the roster is more complete - I wouldn't be surprised to se Caldwell take more of a BAP approach and I hope he does. 

 

The team will likely be much better by mid-season if those first three picks (Mack,Swanson,Fales) are able to start and contribute by then.  That's the goal right? 

 

(Garoppolo won't last past the 4th round unless he completely flails at the senior-bowl.)

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It's too early to tell if Caldwell is a needs drafter or BAP guy because last year any guy would have been an upgrade. It seems to me that he finds a weakness in an area and loads up the talent. Our secondary was depleted and he completely filled it up with potential solid starters and depth/special teamers. Look for this years draft to be similar. I expect a QB and maybe a WR and/or RB, but then dont be surprised to have the best available lineman selected most of the draft. Lineman on both sides of the ball that is (DE/LEO being included as linemen)

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"Expect for the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes."

 

Alright well we already know Caldwell is a needs based drafter, he said it himself but you made it sound like Joeckel wasn't the BAP.

 

It is possible to be a needs based drafter and still pick one BAP. Luke Joeckel was the only player who did not fill an immediate need.

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He was the only BAP pick. Everyone else filled a need.

 

Cyprien was close enough to being the best player available regardless of position to be arguably BAP.

 

He was graded by the scouting experts at NFL.com as thirteenth best player available.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt...t-by-grade

 

Mike Mayock, one of the best draft experts there is place Cyprien 38th on his final top 100. He rates by combining the draft grade with tape.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap100000...-prospects

 

The high and low on Cyprien from select draft guru sites was right around the bottom of one to the first ten or so of two.

 

Based on how awful David Caldwell did after the Cyprien pick in terms of BAP, it suggests that he drafted Jonathan BAP by coincidence.

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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

 

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

I get why people are bent by the "needs drafting" thing, but when so many positions are depleted of talent, I don't think it's so terrible.  When the roster is more complete - I wouldn't be surprised to se Caldwell take more of a BAP approach and I hope he does. 

 

The team will likely be much better by mid-season if those first three picks are able to start and contribute by then.  

 

(Garoppolo won't last past the 4th round unless he completely flails at the senior-bowl.)

 

The thing that kind of amazes me about the whole BAP vs. Need discussion is that it seems as if some folks just won't allow for two players who play different positions to have an equal grade.

 

Are they quality differences in the draft from top to bottom? Indeed! And quite drastic differences! But there are a lot of times that a LB is going to grade out about as well as a Safety. A Quarterback is going to grade out as well as a DT, and yes -- gasp! -- a Cornerback is going to grade out about as well as an OL. I don't think that applies to everyone who subscribes to BAP drafting, but it sure does seem like a lot do.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

It's too early to tell if Caldwell is a needs drafter or BAP guy because last year any guy would have been an upgrade. It seems to me that he finds a weakness in an area and loads up the talent. Our secondary was depleted and he completely filled it up with potential solid starters and depth/special teamers. Look for this years draft to be similar. I expect a QB and maybe a WR and/or RB, but then dont be surprised to have the best available lineman selected most of the draft. Lineman on both sides of the ball that is (DE/LEO being included as linemen)

 

If this year is like last year, Caldwell will pick five offensive linemen, which would give us some depth in addition to three or four new starters. I would love that as long as we get a QB and DE first.

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The thing that kind of amazes me about the whole BAP vs. Need discussion is that it seems as if some folks just won't allow for two players who play different positions to have an equal grade.

 

Are they quality differences in the draft from top to bottom? Indeed! And quite drastic differences! But there are a lot of times that a LB is going to grade out about as well as a Safety. A Quarterback is going to grade out as well as a DT, and yes -- gasp! -- a Cornerback is going to grade out about as well as an OL. I don't think that applies to everyone who subscribes to BAP drafting, but it sure does seem like a lot do.

 

In the example, the offensive guard, Larry Warford of Kentucky, had a much higher draft grade than Gratz. The pick is easy, you take Warford, which is exactly what Detroit did with the very next pick. They got a sure-fire starter with Pro Bowl potential. The Jaguars got a far less talented player which would be restricted to special teams on most NFL teams.

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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

 

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

Cyprien was close enough to being the best player available regardless of position to be arguably BAP.

 

He was graded by the scouting experts at NFL.com as thirteenth best player available.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/tracker#dt...t-by-grade

 

Mike Mayock, one of the best draft experts there is place Cyprien 38th on his final top 100. He rates by combining the draft grade with tape.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/0ap100000...-prospects

 

The high and low on Cyprien from select draft guru sites was right around the bottom of one to the first ten or so of two.

 

Based on how awful David Caldwell did after the Cyprien pick in terms of BAP, it suggests that he drafted Jonathan BAP by coincidence.

 

BAP or not, he filled a need, which is all that matters. And that was a big need because we did not have a good strong safety on the roster.

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Only thing that matters is results. Call your draft BAP, need based or combination of the two, but at the end of the day do you have a team that is playing good football?

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In the example, the offensive guard, Larry Warford of Kentucky, had a much higher draft grade than Gratz. The pick is easy, you take Warford, which is exactly what Detroit did with the very next pick. They got a sure-fire starter with Pro Bowl potential. The Jaguars got a far less talented player which would be restricted to special teams on most NFL teams.

I agree that I would've like Warford better at that pick, but they didn't pick Gratz thinking he would be just a depth player.

 

I think they had a similar grade but went CB because the value of the position compared to a guard isn't even close.

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Didn't realize that the Jaguars used NFL.com for their draft grades.  Here I thought each team had their own scouts who graded players.

Do you have a problem with the NFL addressing corruption within the scouting process?

 

If yes, you probably aren't an NFL owner that's had to write millions and millions of dollar's worth of payroll checks to players not worth a single red cent.

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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

 

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

BAP or not, he filled a need, which is all that matters. And that was a big need because we did not have a good strong safety on the roster.

Filling needs is all that matters? Why fill needs when you can use the draft to improve the talent level of your franchise? 

 

One thing for sure, Gene Smith could spot his needs from a mile away. He also lamented just prior to his firing that the Jaguars had no talent.

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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

 

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

In the example, the offensive guard, Larry Warford of Kentucky, had a much higher draft grade than Gratz.
The pick is easy, you take Warford, which is exactly what Detroit did with the very next pick. They got a sure-fire starter with Pro Bowl potential. The Jaguars got a far less talented player which would be restricted to special teams on most NFL teams.

 

According to whom?

 

Also, how does this example -- which you have provided more than enough times -- relate to the post of mine which you quoted?

 

Fourthly, why is there no pizza?

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

The thing that kind of amazes me about the whole BAP vs. Need discussion is that it seems as if some folks just won't allow for two players who play different positions to have an equal grade.

 

Are they quality differences in the draft from top to bottom? Indeed! And quite drastic differences! But there are a lot of times that a LB is going to grade out about as well as a Safety. A Quarterback is going to grade out as well as a DT, and yes -- gasp! -- a cornerback is going to grade out about as well as an OL. I don't think that applies to everyone who subscribes to BAP drafting, but it sure does seem like a lot do.

 

So would you say BAP or need was the coincidence on the Jonathan Cyprien pick?

 

I remember a lot of board members said Gen Smith was a BAP drafter, ignoring the obvious fact that our biggest need was left tackle when we picked one at #8 overall. If you think that was a BAP pick, you must have forgotten Michael Crabtree was still available. Many people thought Crabtree was the BAP and were surprised he fell to the 49ers at #10. I think that was like what you are talking about where Eugene Monroe was graded about equal to Crabtree because nobody expected Monroe to fall to #8. I know we needed a wide receiver at the time too, but that turned out to be a good decision because Crabtree held out half the season.

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I agree that I would've like Warford better at that pick, but they didn't pick Gratz thinking he would be just a depth player.

 

I think they had a similar grade but went CB because the value of the position compared to a guard isn't even close.

 

You always take the best player available regardless of what position that player plays. Why draft a less talented football player?

 

Picks are assets. You draft to covert the pick to a player.

 

Give me twenty dollars and I'll give you fifteen back. Is that OK?

 

By the same token, if your draft pick is worth twenty and you take fifteen instead, you've got less talent for your pick.

 

Caldwell took a far less talented football player then he could have. Why draft less talented players?

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First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win. - Mahatma Gandhi

 

http://s6.postimg.org/vyr2ycdfz/Teddy_Br...cked_4.gif

Filling needs is all that matters? Why fill needs when you can use the draft to improve the talent level of your franchise? 

 

One thing for sure, Gene Smith could spot his needs from a mile away. He also lamented just prior to his firing that the Jaguars had no talent.

 

I mean the fact that Jonahan Cyprien was the BAP is just a coincidence (if that was true) because we needed a strong safety. But it was great to pick him instead of another safety, obviously.

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So would you say BAP or need was the coincidence on the Jonathan Cyprien pick?


 

I remember a lot of board members said Gen Smith was a BAP drafter, ignoring the obvious fact that our biggest need was left tackle when we picked one at #8 overall. If you think that was a BAP pick, you must have forgotten Michael Crabtree was still available. Many people thought Crabtree was the BAP and were surprised he fell to the 49ers at #10. I think that was like what you are talking about where Eugene Monroe was graded about equal to Crabtree because nobody expected Monroe to fall to #8. I know we needed a wide receiver at the time too, but that turned out to be a good decision because Crabtree held out half the season.

 

This question doesn't make sense to me. Are you asking if Caldwell went for "Need" and that just happened to be his BAP?

 

What I am discussing is that there are periods in the draft where two, three, four, and maybe even more players all pretty much grade out the same but at different positions. These grades are really, really subjective and may change as seasons go along but such is how a draft works. Where a player is picked is not a very good indication of how any one individual team graded him simply because grades vary wildly across the League.

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I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!