Ramsey saw AB get what he wanted.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. Ramsey hasn't demanded to be paid this year or next year. He knows he is getting his money. He is a competitor that wants to win, not lose because the coaches continue to be stupid.

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Ramsey may be a competitor, but that doesn't excuse his attitude.

A lot of us work under not so great bosses. A lot of us may be competitive in one way or another. How many of you have actively brushed your boss off, or blown up at him?

Marrone may not be the right coach for this time; hell he may not be a good head coach, PERIOD. It's hard to say for a certainty, but I think it's fair to say that he doesn't have the gauge of the locker room. But even then, this is also on Jalen. There's nothing wrong with having pride in your game and wanting to dominate the competition. But to let something like this get to you is unprofessional at best.

Part of me thinks he may look for a reason to no resign with this team in the future. That's probably just me being pessimistic.

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I'd trade him.

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Personally I think this whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion fueled by the "sports media" too "connected" via twitter.  To say that the head coach has "lost the locker room" is all nothing more than speculation and/or opinion based on what was broadcast during the game.  Remember, this is a young team and emotions are certainly going to play a part in how they act.  Nobody except a few players and the people on the sideline knows what exactly was going on.  There is speculation that Ramsey was upset either from the coverage that was called during the series (zone which kept him from playing man on Hopkins) or because the catch was not challenged.  Either way it's all just speculation.  Only the coaches/players involved know what really was going on.

The bottom line is that both the players and coaches need to be professionals.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Whether Marrone should have thrown the challenge flag or not, Jalen should not have taken it personally.  Jalen needs to do his job and let the coach do his.  That this has become a big thing says more about the players than it does the coach, IMO.  If the players just focused on the next play, instead of jawing about the previous play, maybe Houston never scores that FG.  
Seeing 25 and 26 seem to agree with Jalen makes it worse IMO.  You might say, if they're on Jalen's side, Doug must be wrong.  Doug's got a big problem with at least 3 players showing bad attitude.  A single challenge flag on third down is not the main problem here.

Ok... as much as I've been ragging on Marrone, I can't ignore Ramsey's immaturity here. He's an emotional guy who seems to lack that behavioral trait allowing some of us to shut off our emotions and remain professional. While I don't totally exonerate Ramsey, he's also an example of how some players behave, and coaches need to understand this and deal with such hotheads better. I don't ever recall Coughlin having issues like this. His players just knew better even if they didn't like him. 

As for #25 and #26, I agree with their actions. They understand Ramsey's immaturity realizing Marrone really needs to step back and let him vent at that moment. This doesn't mean Ramsey shouldn't be held responsible for his actions, but in the heat of the moment on the sideline was not the time and place for the discourse. 

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'02

Ramsey saw AB get what he wanted.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. Ramsey hasn't demanded to be paid this year or next year. He knows he is getting his money. He is a competitor that wants to win, not lose because the coaches continue to be stupid.

He also wants to play for his hometown team. But I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Do you think part of Ramseys frustration at Marrone was Ramsey thinking Marrone should have challenged because he told him to. Like having his back?

I get we have a system but when a senior player tells you it hit the ground, for some HC that's enough.

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You shouldn't throw a challenge flag just because one player says you should throw it.  People see what they want to see.  Jalen wanted that to be an incompletion; his testimony is biased.  That's not a comment on Jalen's personality or trustworthiness, just saying he's human.  Think about it, if we should be sure it was a drop just because Jalen says so, why not have Jalen play referee and cornerback?  
That said, Maybe Marrone could have called a time out and peeked at the replay if Houston was trying to quick-snap the next play.  But it would have been more foolish to outsource his decisions to Jalen Ramsey.  And it was really immature of Ramsey to keep fuming about it after the decision was made.

I hear you, and I also recall Marrone being burned before when a player was sure about something but was simply wrong. That said, it still suggests an issue with the team's inability to realize the call easily would have been overturned on replay. You could see the dropped ball hitting the ground. I suspect Marrone was not given the best information to make the call because you don't want to make that call if you have any doubt. In that respect, even though I do feel the decision to not throw the flag was the wrong decision, it's hard for me to say "Marrone was wrong" for not throwing the flag because maybe he simply didn't know.

On Ramsey, it's not like he doesn't need to grow up, but yelling at him on the sideline won't make just make that happen. Maturity is a process, and some of these guys including Ramsey are still young.

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'02

You shouldn't throw a challenge flag just because one player says you should throw it.  People see what they want to see.  Jalen wanted that to be an incompletion; his testimony is biased.  That's not a comment on Jalen's personality or trustworthiness, just saying he's human.  Think about it, if we should be sure it was a drop just because Jalen says so, why not have Jalen play referee and cornerback?  
That said, Maybe Marrone could have called a time out and peeked at the replay if Houston was trying to quick-snap the next play.  But it would have been more foolish to outsource his decisions to Jalen Ramsey.  And it was really immature of Ramsey to keep fuming about it after the decision was made.

I agree with this. Marrone and staff have a protocol in place for challenges and it rightfully doesn't include challenging whatever a player tells them to. 
The call could have gone either way had they challenged it. The tip of the ball contacted the ground as Hopkins rolled over but he had secured it and it didn't move in his hands. The refs could easily have said "not enough evidence to overturn." 

ALSO:

I think another reason why Ramsey was so mad was that in that series Wash called a couple of zone plays that took Ramsey out of press man coverage.  So he was already ticked and the "incompletion" put him over the edge. Still should have contained his temper though.
 
 Sidenote to this^ :
Wash did call mixed coverages yesterday that had the secondary in zone while Ramsey was manning up on Hopkins. Just for those that seem to think it's always one or the other. We seemed to have a lot of that misunderstanding after the chiefs game around here.

That's an interesting take that Ramsey's temper tantrum may have been building before that even happened.

As for the call, it would have been overturned no doubt in my mind.

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What's that old man going to do?

Seriously.

He and Caldwell need to evaluate the team and pick a coach that actually conforms to the players rather than expect the players to conform to him. They start that process now and fire Marrone after the season.

TC just needs to put the headset on for the rest of the year. Not take over for good. He is already at practice everyday. Call timeout, challenges, and 4th down decisions. The coordinators can do the rest. TC should also have their respect as he has won.

Sent from my SM-T820 using Tapatalk

This makes sense. In other words, short of taking over TC can simply put Marrone on a bit of a leash and become more active in the decision-making process. There's a lot I do like about Marrone and how he handles business as a head coach, however, his in-game decisions have often left me scratching my head. That's one area he needs to improve at. 

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'02

Marrone should have trusted his star defensive player instead of the “process.”

I would be upset too if my coach didn’t trust what I saw on the field.

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Marrone should have trusted his star defensive player instead of the “process.”

I would be upset too if my coach didn’t trust what I saw on the field.

To the point of making a childish spectacle of yourself?

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Marrone should have trusted his star defensive player instead of the “process.”

I would be upset too if my coach didn’t trust what I saw on the field.

And there are a lot of upset players around the league every single week for that very reason. 
Coaches routinely wait for word from the booth. It's not always because they simply don't trust the player, it's because the guys in the booth are seeing the angles the refs are going to see under the hood, and those angles are all that matters. There may be proof in those angles, there may not be proof there. Regardless of whether the player is correct calling for the flag.

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Get rid of Ramsey and any other players who think they run the team.  It's a cancer.  Ramsey has managed to get inside his OWN head - how else to explain dropping an easy pick-6 he had cradled in both arms?

How's that working out for the Steelers?

I don't feel the answer to immature brats is to kick them to the curb like cancer. We're being too quick to demonize a correctable behaviour. Deal with the underlying issues.

I can relate this to metastatic cancer. I have some rather big tumors that you'd think maybe they should just cut 'em out, but that's not the right approach and will only allow for more tumors to replace them creating more problems. They instead deal with the underlying issues (how they feed and grow) to contain and reduce the existing tumors to encourage them to go into remission.  Ramsey is an elite talent who simply needs some guidance in the right direction.

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The bottom line is that both the players and coaches need to be professionals.

^^^THIS!!!

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'02

What's that old man going to do?

Seriously.

He and Caldwell need to evaluate the team and pick a coach that actually conforms to the players rather than expect the players to conform to him. They start that process now and fire Marrone after the season.

Do you want Jack Del Rio? Because that's how you get Jack Del Rio.

Although, in fairness, Del Rio doesn't seem like a half-bad idea right now.

Get rid of Ramsey and any other players who think they run the team. It's a cancer. Ramsey has managed to get inside his OWN head - how else to explain dropping an easy pick-6 he had cradled in both arms?

Yes, let's pull an Oakland and dispose of our best defensive player because the head coach doesn't like him.

Personally I think this whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion fueled by the "sports media" too "connected" via twitter.  To say that the head coach has "lost the locker room" is all nothing more than speculation and/or opinion based on what was broadcast during the game.  Remember, this is a young team and emotions are certainly going to play a part in how they act.  Nobody except a few players and the people on the sideline knows what exactly was going on.  There is speculation that Ramsey was upset either from the coverage that was called during the series (zone which kept him from playing man on Hopkins) or because the catch was not challenged.  Either way it's all just speculation.  Only the coaches/players involved know what really was going on.

The bottom line is that both the players and coaches need to be professionals.

I don't care that Ramsey was upset. I care about two things:
1. Doug Marrone went to the bench to yell at a player instead of focusing on the next play and either sending Ramsey to the locker room or dealing with him at halftime.
2. D.J. Hayden, Jarrod Wilson and Ronnie Harrison immediately got involved and held the head coach back before leading him away.

The first item speaks to a total lack of composure on behalf of the coach. The second speaks to how little the players think of him. He took his attention away from the game to go and yell and Ramsey, and three players got involved with one of them leading him away from the fight. It doesn't help anyone's case that Ramsey didn't want to discuss it and Marrone told the dumbest lie possible when he said that he didn't remember why he got in Ramsey's face in the first place. As a head coach, if you get pushed back from a shouting match by three of your own players, you damn well better remember what provoked it.

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Ramsey saw AB get what he wanted.

I don't think that has anything to do with it. Ramsey hasn't demanded to be paid this year or next year. He knows he is getting his money. He is a competitor that wants to win, not lose because the coaches continue to be stupid.

I do think this needs to be factored in. Jalen wasnt throwing a diva tantrum like Des Bryant or OBJ because he wasnt getting the ball or something, he was angry it cost us 3 points and our O needs all the help it can get.

Hes tired of losing and I'm the same. 

But it wasn't a great look for all involved.

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...Ramsey, and three players got involved with one of them leading him away from the fight. It doesn't help anyone's case that Ramsey didn't want to discuss it and Marrone told the dumbest lie possible when he said that he didn't remember why he got in Ramsey's face in the first place. As a head coach, if you get pushed back from a shouting match by three of your own players, you damn well better remember what provoked it.

LOL!!!

If it's one things I've learned about Marrone is that he remembers everything.

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'02

It didn't look great but there's no way to know what actually transpired. 

If he's lost the locker room we'll know by midseason.

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I'd trade him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KyleKnows_94/...1298617344

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Personally I think this whole thing has gotten blown way out of proportion fueled by the "sports media" too "connected" via twitter.  To say that the head coach has "lost the locker room" is all nothing more than speculation and/or opinion based on what was broadcast during the game.  Remember, this is a young team and emotions are certainly going to play a part in how they act.  Nobody except a few players and the people on the sideline knows what exactly was going on.  There is speculation that Ramsey was upset either from the coverage that was called during the series (zone which kept him from playing man on Hopkins) or because the catch was not challenged.  Either way it's all just speculation.  Only the coaches/players involved know what really was going on.

The bottom line is that both the players and coaches need to be professionals.

I don't care that Ramsey was upset. I care about two things:
1. Doug Marrone went to the bench to yell at a player instead of focusing on the next play and either sending Ramsey to the locker room or dealing with him at halftime.
2. D.J. Hayden, Jarrod Wilson and Ronnie Harrison immediately got involved and held the head coach back before leading him away.

The first item speaks to a total lack of composure on behalf of the coach. The second speaks to how little the players think of him. He took his attention away from the game to go and yell and Ramsey, and three players got involved with one of them leading him away from the fight. It doesn't help anyone's case that Ramsey didn't want to discuss it and Marrone told the dumbest lie possible when he said that he didn't remember why he got in Ramsey's face in the first place. As a head coach, if you get pushed back from a shouting match by three of your own players, you damn well better remember what provoked it.

Oh please.  Spare me the drama.

Emotions were running high and both the coach and the player were yelling.  The other players "getting involved" were just diffusing the situation (as they should).  The head coach can "take his attention away" from the game for a few seconds to discipline players and/or speak his mind on their action(s).

As I said before, this whole thing has been blown way out of proportion fueled by the "media" that is twitter, etc.  I would bet that this happens a lot during games but isn't normally broadcast on national television.  The fact that it got broadcast is what fuels the whole "twitter media".

Ramsey's refusal to talk to the media and Coach Marone's "I don't remember" comment is an attempt to hush the "twitter media".

The whole "disrespect" thing regarding the head coach by the players is dreamed up in fan's minds.  It just won't happen because the decision(s) of the head coach could mean what does or doesn't go into a player's bank account every week.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

I know its been spoken about a lot already and I do think by Thursday this will be old news but I said in the off season, can Marrone get control of this team back.  I cant find a clip of Jalen pushing past Marrone

https://twitter.com/i/status/1173401926853169153

https://twitter.com/i/status/1173289642168377344

Now I agree with Rosenfels, the other DB's reactions are very telling

It looked like all of them were just trying to keep the peace, to me. 
Jalen is sitting the whole time.  Doug was standing.  Doug says a few things that don't seem to get a reaction from anyone.  Then 25 and 26 suddenly jump up at the same moment.  Either Doug said something way out of line, or Jalen did.  But Doug, because he is standing, is in the aggressive position and if you want to keep the peace you try to take him out of that position.

What was said to make those two jump up, and who said it, is none of our business.

I agree with you that Doug would have been wiser to let Wash or another coach say what needed to be said. Obviously.  "Look, Jalen, I thought that was a tough call too, but we have the same boss and the same goal and let's put it behind us." But maybe Doug already did that and got no results.  The camera didn't show us.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Letting players decide when to throw the challenge flag? lol, that some stupid sh%$% right there.

It was called complete, he had it in his arms, it touched ground, those refs would not have overturned it, besides they quick snapped anyway.

If ramsey wants to be mad, be mad for not being able to catch.

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