It seems like we have 2 ideal 3-4 outside LBs in Ngakoue and Allen.  Then if we put Myles Jack and Payne in the middle, all we need is a nose tackle.  

But to me, the whole point of making this move is to take full advantage of the talents of Ngakoue and Allen.

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It seems like we have 2 ideal 3-4 outside LBs in Ngakoue and Allen.  Then if we put Myles Jack and Payne in the middle, all we need is a nose tackle.  

But to me, the whole point of making this move is to take full advantage of the talents of Ngakoue and Allen.

It's a good point considering the team will have to overhaul the run stoppers on the defense anyway. I'd say it depends on what's available in reasonably priced free agency. This is the kind of off-season where making that change would be a sensible thing to do.

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It seems like we have 2 ideal 3-4 outside LBs in Ngakoue and Allen.  Then if we put Myles Jack and Payne in the middle, all we need is a nose tackle.  

But to me, the whole point of making this move is to take full advantage of the talents of Ngakoue and Allen.

I had said this awhile back. Dareus seemed like he could have been an effective nose tackle before he got injured with Jones or Bryan and Campbell at the ends.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

It seems like we have 2 ideal 3-4 outside LBs in Ngakoue and Allen.  Then if we put Myles Jack and Payne in the middle, all we need is a nose tackle.  

But to me, the whole point of making this move is to take full advantage of the talents of Ngakoue and Allen.

I had said this awhile back. Dareus seemed like he could have been an effective nose tackle before he got injured with Jones or Bryan and Campbell at the ends.

Smoot is starting to look like a capable 3-4 end as well.

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Nah, we talk about this every few years and I'm not a fan of the 34. It's an assumption that the linebackers can suddenly just switch to a different scheme and our D-linemen, 93 and 99 in particular, are substantially more effective in 43 than they were in the 34.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I had said this awhile back. Dareus seemed like he could have been an effective nose tackle before he got injured with Jones or Bryan and Campbell at the ends.

Smoot is starting to look like a capable 3-4 end as well.

Good point, he's really coming on.

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Nah, we talk about this every few years and I'm not a fan of the 34. It's an assumption that the linebackers can suddenly just switch to a different scheme and our D-linemen, 93 and 99 in particular, are substantially more effective in 43 than they were in the 34.

Yeah, not suddenly. It would take an offseason program and probably a few live games before the transition would click.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

Nah, we talk about this every few years and I'm not a fan of the 34. It's an assumption that the linebackers can suddenly just switch to a different scheme and our D-linemen, 93 and 99 in particular, are substantially more effective in 43 than they were in the 34.

93 and 99 are not going to be here long term.  41 and 91 (hopefully) are going to be here long term.  I'm thinking about the best use of 41 and 91.

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Nah, we talk about this every few years and I'm not a fan of the 34. It's an assumption that the linebackers can suddenly just switch to a different scheme and our D-linemen, 93 and 99 in particular, are substantially more effective in 43 than they were in the 34.

Yeah, not suddenly. It would take an offseason program and probably a few live games before the transition would click.

But that's the thing, if the coach is Marrone then he's not gonna have time for such a radical change unless he sells to Khan that it's going to take a year to do this. And there's no way the fan base accepts "We're gonna change up the scheme so we need two years to start winning games" after the past year's debacle. If it's not Marrone then we have to interview a coach who is willing to change over the defense and then start on the players. It just doesn't seem like a good time either way.

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Nah, we talk about this every few years and I'm not a fan of the 34. It's an assumption that the linebackers can suddenly just switch to a different scheme and our D-linemen, 93 and 99 in particular, are substantially more effective in 43 than they were in the 34.

93 and 99 are not going to be here long term.  41 and 91 (hopefully) are going to be here long term.  I'm thinking about the best use of 41 and 91.

I think they are both better at defensive end than as linebackers playing in space.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Depends on what happens with the DC position. Assuming Wash is out if Marrone is retained.

You could make this switch though if you think you can bank on adding two first round talents to bolster the 3 - 4 scheme.

Isiah Simmons from Clemson and Grant Delpit from LSU would actually be ideal for me if they made this switch.

It's not out of the realm of possibility. But then you get into this weird situation where you're trying to lock down Ngakoue next year while asking him to play at a position he was not paid to play?

A lot of variables there. Everything looks easy on paper. Actually setting it into motion though?

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Depends on what happens with the DC position. Assuming Wash is out if Marrone is retained.

You could make this switch though if you think you can bank on adding two first round talents to bolster the 3 - 4 scheme.

Isiah Simmons from Clemson and Grant Delpit from LSU would actually be ideal for me if they made this switch.  

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Yeah no. 

We need O-lineman, TE, CB, S, RB... It'd be stupid to make the switch, especially with Marrone.

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Depends on what happens with the DC position. Assuming Wash is out if Marrone is retained.

You could make this switch though if you think you can bank on adding two first round talents to bolster the 3 - 4 scheme.

Isiah Simmons from Clemson and Grant Delpit from LSU would actually be ideal for me if they made this switch.  

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Yeah no. 

We need O-lineman, TE, CB, S, RB... It'd be stupid to make the switch, especially with Marrone.

It's not stupid if it benefits the team. They need to figure something out on defense after the lapses they had.

You're asking for offensive lineman and tight ends in a class that features more prominent defenders on opening night.

This is how you end up missing out on players like Allen because you needed a tight end like Hockenson.

No thanks. If switching to a 3 - 4 means getting more out of Allen [Who showed outstanding pass coverage abilities at Kentucky], Jack playing inside with a promising prospect like Simmons who is an athlete like him but has actual experience at LB / S and then you have Delpit who has range and can effect the run and pass?

You take them. You don't reach for a lineman. You don't reach for a corner. You don't reach for a tight end. That's stupid. This team has enough holes as it already is. You really can't go wrong in round one. Especially on the defensive side of the football.

Now. With that said. If a guy like Andrew Thomas slips to #9. Take him. He's a franchise caliber LT. If Okudah is there at cornerback? Maybe take him over Simmons or Delpit. Either way. Tons of needs to address.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Josh Allen is to James Harrison. As Ngakoue is to Greg Lloyd. We would be unbeatable.

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Yeah no. 

We need O-lineman, TE, CB, S, RB... It'd be stupid to make the switch, especially with Marrone.

It's not stupid if it benefits the team. They need to figure something out on defense after the lapses they had.

You're asking for offensive lineman and tight ends in a class that features more prominent defenders on opening night.

This is how you end up missing out on players like Allen because you needed a tight end like Hockenson.

No thanks. If switching to a 3 - 4 means getting more out of Allen [Who showed outstanding pass coverage abilities at Kentucky], Jack playing inside with a promising prospect like Simmons who is an athlete like him but actual experience at LB / S and then you have Delpit who has range and can effect the run and pass?

You take them. You don't reach for a lineman. You don't reach for a corner. You don't reach for a tight end. That's stupid. This team has enough holes as it already is. You really can't go wrong in round one. Especially on the defensive side of the football.

Now. With that said. If a guy like Andrew Thomas slips to #9. Take him. He's a franchise caliber LT. If Okudah is there at cornerback? Maybe take him over Simmons or Delpit. Either way. Tons of needs to address.

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I never said reach for needs, I was in favor of drafting Allen. 

You won't see massive change in year 1, we could actually see an even worse defense. Marrone will leave sooner of later, are we gonna lose out on a great HC candidate if he doesn't wanna have a 3-4 defense? Who is gonna be the DC? What if one of the D-lineman goes down? We just don't have enough players to run it.

It would be stupid, it won't help the team any time soon.

BTW pretty much no one drafts BAP, even if they say so. Allen was a rare BAP because he was such a great player who dropped, that's when you strictly apply BAP. Otherwise, most teams draft with a combination of BAP/need.

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Josh Allen is to James Harrison.  As Ngakoue is to Greg Lloyd. We would be unbeatable.

Hahaha.  I think we would be perfectly beatable.  I'm just trying to say, Ngakoue is light for a 4-3 DE, and Allen has loads of experience dropping into coverage at KY.   Those two guys are long term cornerstones of this team, and the best way to utilitze their talents could be as 3-4 OLBs.

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Josh Allen is to James Harrison. As Ngakoue is to Greg Lloyd. We would be unbeatable.

Or they could get a deal done with Ngakoue. Keep him at DE.

Beef up the back seven and interior play via the draft on opening night.

And turn Ngakoue and Allen loose in a more aggressive and attacking 4 - 3 scheme and hope they can rack up enough sacks to make Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis blush.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Josh Allen is to James Harrison.  As Ngakoue is to Greg Lloyd. We would be unbeatable.

Hahaha.  I think we would be perfectly beatable.  I'm just trying to say, Ngakoue is light for a 4-3 DE, and Allen has loads of experience dropping into coverage at KY.   Those two guys are long term cornerstones of this team, and the best way to utilitze their talents could be as 3-4 OLBs.

I'm confused. The Steelers best defensive years ran a 3-4 with those all pro players.  You just said Jaguars would  beatable if the ran a 3-4 then at the end you said the 3-4 is ideal for Allen and Ngakoue.

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Depends on what happens with the DC position. Assuming Wash is out if Marrone is retained.

You could make this switch though if you think you can bank on adding two first round talents to bolster the 3 - 4 scheme.

Isiah Simmons from Clemson and Grant Delpit from LSU would actually be ideal for me if they made this switch.  

It's not out of the realm of possibility. But then you get into this weird situation where you're trying to lock down Ngakoue next year while asking him to play at a position he was not paid to play?

A lot of variables there. Everything looks easy on paper. Actually setting it into motion though?

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It's hard to imagine changing defensive coordinators if Marrone is retained. It's hard to get quality candidates even when they have a reasonable certainty of being somewhere for several years with a real chance to succeed. If Marrone is retained candidates would look at this job as a 'one year then canned after another losing season' deal. We'd get the DC equivalent of someone like Mularky. It's hard to get quality in for that kind of situation. It's why wiping the slate and starting over this off-season makes so much more sense than letting Caldwell flush another couple of first round picks before the broom comes next year.

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It's not stupid if it benefits the team. They need to figure something out on defense after the lapses they had.

You're asking for offensive lineman and tight ends in a class that features more prominent defenders on opening night.

This is how you end up missing out on players like Allen because you needed a tight end like Hockenson.

No thanks. If switching to a 3 - 4 means getting more out of Allen [Who showed outstanding pass coverage abilities at Kentucky], Jack playing inside with a promising prospect like Simmons who is an athlete like him but actual experience at LB / S and then you have Delpit who has range and can effect the run and pass?

You take them. You don't reach for a lineman. You don't reach for a corner. You don't reach for a tight end. That's stupid. This team has enough holes as it already is. You really can't go wrong in round one. Especially on the defensive side of the football.

Now. With that said. If a guy like Andrew Thomas slips to #9. Take him. He's a franchise caliber LT. If Okudah is there at cornerback? Maybe take him over Simmons or Delpit. Either way. Tons of needs to address.

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I never said reach for needs, I was in favor of drafting Allen. 

You won't see massive change in year 1, we could actually see an even worse defense. Marrone will leave sooner of later, are we gonna lose out on a great HC candidate if he doesn't wanna have a 3-4 defense? Who is gonna be the DC? What if one of the D-lineman goes down? We jist don't have enough players to run it.

It would be stupid, it won't help the team any time soon.

I hear you. I am not for it nor against it. But after seeing our 7th double digit losing season in 8 years?

I am all ears to any and all suggestions that could benefit this team. I just think in next year's draft you're going to see defenders flying off the shelf on opening night.

Especially after the combine and pro days are settled. Outside of Andrew Thomas at LT I am not convinced that Wirfs or Wills can solve our need over there.

And as good as Okudah looked at Ohio St. Simmons looked DAMN good in their victory over them on Saturday and Delpit has a chance to tee off against Clemson's offense.

We need help at safety and linebacker more than cornerback in my opinion. As they play a larger role in the running game. But those two guys in particular are rangey as hell and can play sideline to sideline.

Would be an amazing opening night landing those two kids.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

May use this as a tool to resign 91. 3-4 is much easier on an OLB than 4-3 to an undersized DE

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Really not that much difference these days is there?

All though Payne taking on blocks from OGs would be something.

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