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Offense or Defense?

#1

This team with this great draft capital is rebuilding/retooling, whatever you want to say. Let’s assume Minshew is the guy.
How do you build this team? 

Do you try to build heavy on offense with elite talent surrounding Minshew. Trying to create a strong west coast attack, while trying to field an average defense by just filling holes?

or do you try to rebuild the once strong defense? Maybe add a piece or two to the offense but focus heavy on the defense in the draft?
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#2

BAP
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#3

With every pick, you take the player who most improves the team, regardless of position.
When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.
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#4

(03-07-2020, 09:14 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: BAP

Yes, that^   

Whether offense or defense, the team will turn out to be whatever it turns out to be.   Every player on offense or defense helps every other player on offense or defense.  An improved defense takes the pressure off the offense, and vice versa.  A defensive tackle can help a QB by helping the offense get back on the field more often, for example.   

The team will be whatever the team will turn out to be.  There's no choice to be made between offense or defense.  We just need more talent.  Everywhere.
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#5

I think I'd follow Eric DeCosta on this one. Try to build an undefendable offense and then after that start plugging in on defense. The Jags need people in seats right now and while you might lose because you can't stop other teams, people will come watch an offense that cannot be defended.
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#6

Both

Upgrade NT, MLB, CB, FS, RG, LT, CoP RB, and then add a WR and TE to the mix.

That’s four players on each side. The offense vs defense debate is silly. We need help practically EVERYWHERE.
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#7

(03-07-2020, 09:30 AM)JAllen#41 Wrote: I think I'd follow Eric DeCosta on this one.  Try to build an undefendable offense and then after that start plugging in on defense.  The Jags need people in seats right now and while you might lose because you can't stop other teams, people will come watch an offense that cannot be defended.

I like DeCosta's approach, but he has more job security. To save his job, Caldwell needs immediate impact from this draft. Defensive players tend to develop more quickly, and there are more holes on defense. This is a deep defensive draft. If I were Caldwell, I'd take at least two defenders with the first three picks (preferably DT and CB), take a tackle with the other top three pick, take a flyer on a receiving prospect somewhere, and use the rest of the draft mostly BAPing defense -- 7/8 of the 10 picks need to be defense.  

The offense just needs supplementing. I'd trust Gruden to design a WCO around Minshew and get more out of him in year two. Chark should blossom into a legit #1 WR and a healthy Westbrook could shine in a WCO with run-after-the-catch flourishes. Oliver or O'Shag (whomever stays healthy) has potential to catch a lot of passes. The O-line has three solid/above average starters (Linder, Taylor, and Norwell). Therefore, I'd supplement as follows:

  • Sign a veteran, affordable TE to compete - Ebron comes to mind
  • Spend decent money on a solid/above average Center to move Linder to RG - OR - a solid/above average starting guard to replace the subpar RG rotation - OR - move Cam to RG if a LT is drafted high
  • Sign a tall possession receiver, even if he's past his prime - Michael Crabtree? - to bolster red-zone efficiency
  • Sign a slew of undrafted RBs or pick one late in the draft, hoping to find a diamond in the ruff to compete for snaps w/Armstead 
  • Sign a proven third-down back for Gruden's offense 

"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

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#8
(This post was last modified: 03-07-2020, 10:57 PM by JagJohn.)

My thoughts on this are pretty clear from my 'invest in the offense' thread...

However, that's a general preference on FA and the draft, it doesn't mean that we should reach for significantly lower ranked offensive players in the draft over better defensive options.

It means we should make building an offense our first priority. For example if you are choosing between two players in the draft who you have ranked similarly, go for the offensive player. For example, if you have Jerry Jeudy and Javon Kinlaw with a very similar grade, Jeudy might be the better pick even though DT is a significantly bigger need.

I think we should focus on offense for multiple reasons:
1. We aren't gonna fill all the holes on this team in one off-season
2. Offenses take longer to click than defenses do. Start building around the good young players now.
3. If Minshew has a good supporting cast you are giving him the best chance to succeed. If he doesn't succeed, we will most likely be at the front of the queue for a rookie passer next year who will be able to come into a team with a good offensive cast around him. This is probably the key point.

I just think we need to make the QB position the absolute focus for this team until we are sure it's fixed. To do that you need to make sure you have a great supporting cast around them.
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#9

(03-07-2020, 09:30 AM)JAllen#41 Wrote: I think I'd follow Eric DeCosta on this one.  Try to build an undefendable offense and then after that start plugging in on defense.  The Jags need people in seats right now and while you might lose because you can't stop other teams, people will come watch an offense that cannot be defended.

The Ravens had the defense before an offense though
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#10

I doubt that we can fix the offense without also fixing the defense. If we don't fix the defense, the offense will be going on the field with the constant pressure to catch up on the scoreboard, and that will affect the offensive play calling, pressure on the QB, everything. Opposing defenses have a much easier time defending when their side is ahead on the scoreboard and they can just pin their ears back and clobber the QB.

This is why you have to shore up your biggest weaknesses, whether they are on offense or on defense. If you neglect a big weakness, such as in our case the run defense, you cripple every aspect of your team. You can't build a great offense without having some defense to support it, and vice versa.
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#11

Rank into tiers. Take biggest need from that tier. If tier and needs are the same, which is going to happen a lot with our vast needs, then skew offense in most cases IMO.
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#12

(03-08-2020, 12:13 PM)Upper Wrote: Rank into tiers. Take biggest need from that tier. If tier and needs are the same, which is going to happen a lot with our vast needs, then skew offense in most cases IMO.

You could do that.  But we have to fix the run defense.  That's a must, because a bad run defense can really hamstring an offense, as I explained earlier.
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#13
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2020, 01:29 PM by Talented Kalamari.)

Offense, defense is becoming obsolete in today’s game. Look at the Chiefs. Great offense, mediocre D. It’s a shootout league, and smash mouth old school football apparently only gets you as far as the conference championship nowadays.

Also, I’m tired of our culture being terrible offense and good defense. It gets boring as hell.
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#14

we just suck, so help all around

but lets build around what we have, and what we have is Chark and Minshew so Offense
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#15

(03-08-2020, 12:06 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: I doubt that we can fix the offense without also fixing the defense.  If we don't fix the defense, the offense will be going on the field with the constant pressure to catch up on the scoreboard, and that will affect the offensive play calling, pressure on the QB, everything.   Opposing defenses have a much easier time defending when their side is ahead on the scoreboard and they can just pin their ears back and clobber the QB.  

This is why you have to shore up your biggest weaknesses, whether they are on offense or on defense.  If you neglect a big weakness, such as in our case the run defense, you cripple every aspect of your team.  You can't build a great offense without having some defense to support it, and vice versa.

You only say that because you are used to our mediocre-at-best offense suddenly becoming absolutely useless whenever the defense can't keep them in a game. It's not true league wide. Multiple teams have high scoring explosive offenses and terrible defenses too.
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#16

(03-08-2020, 01:28 PM)Talented Kalamari Wrote: Offense, defense is becoming obsolete in today’s game. Look at the Chiefs. Great offense, mediocre D. It’s a shootout league, and smash mouth old school football apparently only gets you as far as the conference championship nowadays.

Also, I’m tired of our culture being terrible offense and good defense. It gets boring as hell.

Boring?  What's boring is losing.  If we lose every game 45-40, I will be bored as hell with that.  If we win every game 9-6, I will love that.  One of the best games I saw the Jags play, they won 9-6.
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#17

(03-08-2020, 01:58 PM)JagJohn Wrote:
(03-08-2020, 12:06 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: I doubt that we can fix the offense without also fixing the defense.  If we don't fix the defense, the offense will be going on the field with the constant pressure to catch up on the scoreboard, and that will affect the offensive play calling, pressure on the QB, everything.   Opposing defenses have a much easier time defending when their side is ahead on the scoreboard and they can just pin their ears back and clobber the QB.  

This is why you have to shore up your biggest weaknesses, whether they are on offense or on defense.  If you neglect a big weakness, such as in our case the run defense, you cripple every aspect of your team.  You can't build a great offense without having some defense to support it, and vice versa.

You only say that because you are used to our mediocre-at-best offense suddenly becoming absolutely useless whenever the defense can't keep them in a game. It's not true league wide. Multiple teams have high scoring explosive offenses and terrible defenses too.

But how can we have a great offense if they can't get on the field because the other team is grinding out running yardage at 5 yards a clip and controlling the clock?  How can we have a great offense when every time our offense takes the field, the opposing defense knows we are going to be passing the ball because we are behind of the scoreboard?  So they just pin back their ears and rush the passer?  Can't you see how improving the defense would help the offense immensely?  

If you want to win games, you have to focus on shoring up your worst weaknesses, and for us, the number one worst weakness is stopping the run.  If we can't stop the run, it's all pointless.  Who cares if we can pass for 500 yards a game if we keep losing games?
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#18

(03-08-2020, 02:08 PM)The Real Marty Wrote:
(03-08-2020, 01:58 PM)JagJohn Wrote: You only say that because you are used to our mediocre-at-best offense suddenly becoming absolutely useless whenever the defense can't keep them in a game. It's not true league wide. Multiple teams have high scoring explosive offenses and terrible defenses too.

But how can we have a great offense if they can't get on the field because the other team is grinding out running yardage at 5 yards a clip and controlling the clock?  How can we have a great offense when every time our offense takes the field, the opposing defense knows we are going to be passing the ball because we are behind of the scoreboard?  So they just pin back their ears and rush the passer?  Can't you see how improving the defense would help the offense immensely?  

If you want to win games, you have to focus on shoring up your worst weaknesses, and for us, the number one worst weakness is stopping the run.  If we can't stop the run, it's all pointless.  Who cares if we can pass for 500 yards a game if we keep losing games?

Of course having a top defense can help an offense. But the point remains, every year multiple teams have good or great offenses even though their defense stinks. Its not this hard set rule that you seem to think it is.

And obviously I would prefer to win every game 9-6 (also one of my favorite games btw, underrated in jags history!) than lose every game 45-42. Anybody who wouldn't is an idiot. But the real question is would you prefer to lose most games 45-42 or lose most games 9-6? If we are being honest, pretty much everyone would prefer the former, because it would mean you have one of the top offenses in the NFL and players putting up crazy stats getting national attention. At which point, more importantly, fixing that terrible defense to a point of being in SB contention would be so much easier than trying to get a terrible offense up to scratch.
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#19

It’s always best player available no matter what. Too many times we passed over JJ Watt, Big Ben, Wilson, etc.

No drafting punters and kickers or even return specialists. Go after the best player available.
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#20

(03-08-2020, 07:22 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: It’s always best player available no matter what. Too many times we passed over JJ Watt, Big Ben, Wilson, etc.

No drafting punters and kickers or even return specialists. Go after the best player available.

Exactly, the only way I would take the lesser rated player is if the players were rated very closely and we were stacked at that position.  Which is almost never.  We should almost always go BPA
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