We also blame Fournette to TC but give credit for every good pick from 2017 to 2019 to DC (Allen, Chark, Minshew).
Also TC was the one who gave Bortles the extension and signed Foles, Dave Caldwell the GM had nothing to do with that.

I think it would serve you well [and all of us for that matter] to catch up before continuing your argument. Here is the article I referenced that provides a lot of insight:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/how-j...o-seasons/

 Coughlin also made some strange personnel decisions -- such as drafting running back Leonard Fournette fourth overall with Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes on the board, and letting receiver Allen Robinson walk in free agency. But there were many more issues with him as well. 

.....

[font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The team passed on taking Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes in the 2017 draft for Fournette -- a move made by Coughlin, who loved big backs -- and decided to stick with Bortles. When Bortles helped get them to the title game, they made the mistake of giving him a contract extension. Bortles was benched in 2018 and released after that season. [/font]


The Jaguars panicked last spring and paid [font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nick Foles a four-year deal worth $88 million with a signing bonus of $45 million, and Foles lost his job to sixth-round rookie Gardner Minshewafter he returned from a broken clavicle he injured in Week 1. That benching marked more lost millions on the quarterback position. [/font]
[font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

If only they had drafted Watson or Mahomes, right?

But Coughlin's love of big backs dates back to his early days with the team when he tried to trade two first-round picks to move up and take Penn State running back Curtis Enis. The [font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bears kept the pick, took Enis fifth overall, and Coughlin bristled because he didn't get his power back. [/font][/font]

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

We also blame Fournette to TC but give credit for every good pick from 2017 to 2019 to DC (Allen, Chark, Minshew).
Also TC was the one who gave Bortles the extension and signed Foles, Dave Caldwell the GM had nothing to do with that.

I think it would serve you well [and all of us for that matter] to catch up before continuing your argument. Here is the article I referenced that provides a lot of insight:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/how-j...o-seasons/

 Coughlin also made some strange personnel decisions -- such as drafting running back Leonard Fournette fourth overall with Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes on the board, and letting receiver Allen Robinson walk in free agency. But there were many more issues with him as well. 

.....

[font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The team passed on taking Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes in the 2017 draft for Fournette -- a move made by Coughlin, who loved big backs -- and decided to stick with Bortles. When Bortles helped get them to the title game, they made the mistake of giving him a contract extension. Bortles was benched in 2018 and released after that season. [/font]


The Jaguars panicked last spring and paid [font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nick Foles a four-year deal worth $88 million with a signing bonus of $45 million, and Foles lost his job to sixth-round rookie Gardner Minshewafter he returned from a broken clavicle he injured in Week 1. That benching marked more lost millions on the quarterback position. [/font]
[font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

If only they had drafted Watson or Mahomes, right?

But Coughlin's love of big backs dates back to his early days with the team when he tried to trade two first-round picks to move up and take Penn State running back Curtis Enis. The [font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bears kept the pick, took Enis fifth overall, and Coughlin bristled because he didn't get his power back. [/font][/font]

All I get from that is Coughlin wanted Fournette, so? Which sure, I believe it but I'd bet my house that DC didn't want Mahomes or Watson.
Where does it say DC was against all decisions? are you telling me TC was the GM from 2017 to 2019? so then we should thank him for Allen, Minshew and Chark, not to mention the FAs and the entire 2017 season. And Caldwell I guess pretty much got paid for nothing then.
Since DC practically said he would have taken Chaisson at #9 if Henderson was gone (meaning passing on Simmons, Wills, Jeudy, Lamb, Kinlaw) that, to me, clearly says he wouldn't have taken Allen last year. And that he would likely have made a terrible mistake this year if the Cards had taken Henderson.

DC, according to people here, let a total noob owner make the choice of his HC (yeah right haha). 
Caldwell has Marrone here and didn't force him to at least fire Wash.
DC let Khan bring TC to be the GM

What does all that say about DC? I'll just say that I would never let a person like that to be the GM or HC of my team.


There's been several GMs, HCs, or prospects for those positions, that pass on various job offers because they don't agree with how the owner handles things or things like that.

---

I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

I appreciate Caldwell for putting us in position to have a chance for Lawrence. Nothing more.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Yeah, all credit to Caldwell, it had nothing to do with Foles winning SB!

I wish Khan realizes we have the best GM in football and gives him a 10 year extension!!

In Caldwell we trust!! 

---

He's not a terrible General Manager. But he's not one of the top General Managers neither. It's hard to trade Newton when you know he has a laundry list of injuries that directly impact his ability to play Quarterback. And the Bengals were going to cut Dalton regardless as it was a guarantee that Burrow would be their selection.

Tricking the Bears into trading for Foles makes a lot of sense because they were stupid enough to pass up on Mahomes and Watson in favor of Trubisky who played against virtually nobody in college and had one year of production that paled in comparison to Mahomes numbers and Watson's ability to win in the clutch.

You still are what your record says you are. And since 2013 this team has played like a giant bucket of horse piss. 6 out of the last 7 seasons of football have produced double digit losses. And we're one of the worst teams at home. [BLEEP] Caldwell. How about some Fan Appreciation instead? How about some Season Ticket Holder appreciation instead?

Such a hater, why can't you just admit Caldwell is the best GM in football?

---

Other great trades by Caldwell:

Kessler
Hyde
Dobbs

some more trades worth noting:

Gabbert
Scobee
Fowler

...or did you forget those?

---

We also blame Fournette to TC but give credit for every good pick from 2017 to 2019 to DC (Allen, Chark, Minshew).
Also TC was the one who gave Bortles the extension and signed Foles, Dave Caldwell the GM had nothing to do with that.

I think it would serve you well [and all of us for that matter] to catch up before continuing your argument. Here is the article I referenced that provides a lot of insight:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/how-j...o-seasons/

 Coughlin also made some strange personnel decisions -- such as drafting running back Leonard Fournette fourth overall with Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes on the board, and letting receiver Allen Robinson walk in free agency. But there were many more issues with him as well. 

.....

[font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The team passed on taking Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes in the 2017 draft for Fournette -- a move made by Coughlin, who loved big backs -- and decided to stick with Bortles. When Bortles helped get them to the title game, they made the mistake of giving him a contract extension. Bortles was benched in 2018 and released after that season. [/font]


The Jaguars panicked last spring and paid [font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Nick Foles a four-year deal worth $88 million with a signing bonus of $45 million, and Foles lost his job to sixth-round rookie Gardner Minshewafter he returned from a broken clavicle he injured in Week 1. That benching marked more lost millions on the quarterback position. [/font]
[font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

If only they had drafted Watson or Mahomes, right?

But Coughlin's love of big backs dates back to his early days with the team when he tried to trade two first-round picks to move up and take Penn State running back Curtis Enis. The [font=proxima-nova, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bears kept the pick, took Enis fifth overall, and Coughlin bristled because he didn't get his power back. [/font][/font]

In fairness to Coughlin. Fournette was a pretty highly touted RB coming out of LSU. He kept getting compared to Adrian Peterson. And additionally. If you go back and look at some of his play from his rookie year I don't think anybody would have thought he was the wrong pick. 

The guy clearly has break away speed when he's able to get past the LOS. And he did show some toughness with the infamous "come on and get it" wave to that Steelers Safety. I don't know if maybe all of the added injuries, weight cutting and what have you changed his game?

But at one point he was facing more 8, 9 man fronts than any other RB in the NFL because everybody knew this team wasn't going to beat you in the passing game. My problems with him are his immaturity, which he seems to have maybe overcome, and his injuries. And I think at some point even Marrone was pretty much questioning his willingness to play through or work through some of those injuries. 

He's not a GREAT back. But he's NOT terrible. They force fed that poor guy last year and they seldom took anybody else out for a spin at the RB position. I think I saw Armstead show up in Denver and against the clots in the final home game of the year and that was virtually it. I don't recall seeing anybody else other than Minshew really run outside of Fournette. 

That's on coaching. Not Fournette. And the offensive line has been horrendous since 2018. Between the injuries, the penalties and the lack of push in the ground game and the lack of pass protection it's just been sloppy for me. 

Was he the right decision? Of course not. You never take a RB, especially in THAT deep of a class over a franchise QB like Watson, who was coming off an impressive national championship comeback win against Alabama and he had the accuracy and numbers coming out of Clemson. Or, a guy like Mahomes who was putting up gaudy numbers even in a system designed to create such numbers for two years in a row. 

But, that's not Fournette's fault nor his problem that he ended up a Jaguar. And I think he's tried to get better as a young man. And I think he'll show up big time for the Jaguars this year.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I think it would serve you well [and all of us for that matter] to catch up before continuing your argument. Here is the article I referenced that provides a lot of insight:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/how-j...o-seasons/

All I get from that is Coughlin wanted Fournette, so? Which sure, I believe it but I'd bet my house that DC didn't want Mahomes or Watson.
Where does it say DC was against all decisions? are you telling me TC was the GM from 2017 to 2019? so then we should thank him for Allen, Minshew and Chark, not to mention the FAs and the entire 2017 season. And Caldwell I guess pretty much got paid for nothing then.
Since DC practically said he would have taken Chaisson at #9 if Henderson was gone (meaning passing on Simmons, Wills, Jeudy, Lamb, Kinlaw) that, to me, clearly says he wouldn't have taken Allen last year. And that he would likely have made a terrible mistake this year if the Cards had taken Henderson.

DC, according to people here, let a total noob owner make the choice of his HC (yeah right haha). 
Caldwell has Marrone here and didn't force him to at least fire Wash.
DC let Khan bring TC to be the GM

What does all that say about DC? I'll just say that I would never let a person like that to be the GM or HC of my team.


There's been several GMs, HCs, or prospects for those positions, that pass on various job offers because they don't agree with how the owner handles things or things like that.

All I can say is do your research. As others have mentioned the things you’ve highlighted have been discussed in different articles and this very message board ad nauseam. I’m not going to look them up for you. But it wouldn’t do much good anyway because it seems as if you’re mind is already made up.

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

He is not the problem.

Let's see what this FO/coaching staff is able to do without the old disciplinarian guy...

Caldwell is absolutely part of the problem. Caldwell, Coughlin and Marrone all had a hand in how poorly this team has played.

Caldwells best 1st round picks are ones that were no brainers due to talent falling in his lap. He has an eye for WRs (which is great) but overall, the guy just hasn’t put a winning product on the field. Whether that’s with his coaching decisions or player acquisitions, it has translated to possibly the worst current roster in the NFL.

(emphasis added)

I have never understood this critique.

First, unless a team is picking first overall, every subsequent good pick is the result of talent falling into some GMs lap.

Take Seattle.  Russell Wilson fell into their laps in the 3rd round, in part because OUR GM, Gene Smith, drafted a PUNTER ahead of him.

Linebacker Barry Wagner fell into their laps in the second round, while CB Richard Sherman fell into their laps in the 5th.

Secondly, if you assert picks like Ramsey and Allen were somehow "now brainers," then you have to explain how they came to be available at the 5th and 7th overall picks respectively.

Apparently, some NFL GMs considered all of the available players in the talent pool in the 2016 and 2019 drafts and decided they would rather have players not named Ramsey or Allen.  Our GM was smart enough to take those guys when available.

We've had GMs who habitually passed on superior players in the draft for inferior players, whether intentionally or through poor evaluation of talent.

So how does a GM win under this analysis of drafting?  If he picks and hits, it's because talent falls into his lap.  If he picks and misses, he sucks at drafting.

What is he supposed to do?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Did you not read a single word I posted?!?

---

Not even close to comparable, considering Gene Smith has not one single drafted Pro Bowl player to his credit.

Not one!

---

I do not hold those first two years against him, though even removing those, it still doesn't change the one winning season critique, unfortunately.

To me the lesson is there is more to winning than simply drafting welll, though that is the most important thing.

Not really, my post was more of an answer to the video and anyone who believes that.

But how does it answer the video?

If you completely removed the TC era picks from 2017-2019 from consideration, Caldwell had four Pro Bowl picks (A. Robinson, T. Smith, J. Ramsey and Y. Ngakoue) over four drafts.

He ends up drafting four pro bowlers out of 32 picks.

He goes from an 11% Pro Bowl rate to 12.5%, a better percentage than the video represents.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

You are Appreciated

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mb1ZvUDvLDY

---

Not really, my post was more of an answer to the video and anyone who believes that.

But how does it answer the video?

If you completely removed the TC era picks from 2017-2019 from consideration, Caldwell had four Pro Bowl picks (A. Robinson, T. Smith, J. Ramsey and Y. Ngakoue) over four drafts.

He ends up drafting four pro bowlers out of 32 picks.

He goes from an 11% Pro Bowl rate to 12.5%, a better percentage than the video represents.

Again it was about giving credit to Caldwell for those 3 guys (video) but at the same time blaming the Fournette pick on Coughlin (what most people do here).
His Pro bowl players never had a winning season until TC arrived.
Allen Robinson (while I do think he is a good pick and we should have kept him) didn't even play in 2017.
His pro bowl players doesn't change the fact that this team has been garbage when he is the man in charge. Nor that he [BLEEP] up big time hiring Bradley and drafting Borltes, the 2 most important moves a GM can make.

BTW Ngakoue, A. Robinson and T. Smith are 1 time pro bowl players and If I remember correctly Ngakoue was an alternate (Maybe I am mistaken though).

---

I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

Coughlin had the con his entire tenure here. So give Caldwell crap all you want but Fournette, Blake's extension, Taven Bryan, the Ramsey situation, the Yan situation, Robinson walking, Lee's extension etc are all on Coughlin.
Yeah, Coughlin then gets credit for Chark and any other pick we deem a good one during that time but the absolute Caldwell hate is just typical of Jaguar fans. Pitchforks always at the ready.

As I said, I believe we should have moved on... because a "just ok" job isn't good enough in the NFL.
But people thinking Caldwell has done just a terrible job period are off base and of course they won't back of their opinion when given facts to the contrary. They'll just "yeah but" or ignore it altogether.

---

All I get from that is Coughlin wanted Fournette, so? Which sure, I believe it but I'd bet my house that DC didn't want Mahomes or Watson.
Where does it say DC was against all decisions? are you telling me TC was the GM from 2017 to 2019? so then we should thank him for Allen, Minshew and Chark, not to mention the FAs and the entire 2017 season. And Caldwell I guess pretty much got paid for nothing then.
Since DC practically said he would have taken Chaisson at #9 if Henderson was gone (meaning passing on Simmons, Wills, Jeudy, Lamb, Kinlaw) that, to me, clearly says he wouldn't have taken Allen last year. And that he would likely have made a terrible mistake this year if the Cards had taken Henderson.

DC, according to people here, let a total noob owner make the choice of his HC (yeah right haha). 
Caldwell has Marrone here and didn't force him to at least fire Wash.
DC let Khan bring TC to be the GM

What does all that say about DC? I'll just say that I would never let a person like that to be the GM or HC of my team.


There's been several GMs, HCs, or prospects for those positions, that pass on various job offers because they don't agree with how the owner handles things or things like that.

All I can say is do your research. As others have mentioned the things you’ve highlighted have been discussed in different articles and this very message board ad nauseam. I’m not going to look them up for you. But it wouldn’t do much good anyway because it seems as if you’re mind is already made up.

Fournette being a TC pick sure.

I've been here all these years never seen any proof that Caldwell was against all those decisions (TC ones). If anyone has any real proof I am open to read any article from a real source.
Chaisson at 9 passing on all those players has nothing to do with TC. It is clear he would have reached for him.


I do remember people talking (maybe even posting a link) about Khan's being in love with Bradley, let's say it is absolutely true, still Caldwell is a joke. You are the GM and you let your owner with 0 football knowledge choose the HC for you? really? You are absolutely to blame for the bad results anyway.
Fact is Caldwell is here and he has Marrone here, and he is obviously ok with Wash being here.
Caldwell was ok with Khan bringing someone to do his job and take away all the power he had...

How many current GMs would have let all those things happen to them? is this really the kind of person you want as a GM in your team?

He also supposedly thinks he has a QB in Minshew still gives him no tools to succeed, except a TE that has missed a ton of games and a WR (Schenault) that has had some injury problems too.

---

I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

All I can say is do your research. As others have mentioned the things you’ve highlighted have been discussed in different articles and this very message board ad nauseam. I’m not going to look them up for you. But it wouldn’t do much good anyway because it seems as if you’re mind is already made up.

Fournette being a TC pick sure.

I've been here all these years never seen any proof that Caldwell was against all those decisions (TC ones). If anyone has any real proof I am open to read any article from a real source.
Chaisson at 9 passing on all those players has nothing to do with TC. It is clear he would have reached for him.


I do remember people talking (maybe even posting a link) about Khan's being in love with Bradley, let's say it is absolutely true, still Caldwell is a joke. You are the GM and you let your owner with 0 football knowledge choose the HC for you? really? You are absolutely to blame for the bad results anyway.
Fact is Caldwell is here and he has Marrone here, and he is obviously ok with Wash being here.
Caldwell was ok with Khan bringing someone to do his job and take away all the power he had...

How many current GMs would have let all those things happen to them? is this really the kind of person you want as a GM in your team?

He also supposedly thinks he has a QB in Minshew still gives him no tools to succeed, except a TE that has missed a ton of games and a WR (Schenault) that has had some injury problems too.

Think about what you said here for a second...

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Fournette being a TC pick sure.

I've been here all these years never seen any proof that Caldwell was against all those decisions (TC ones). If anyone has any real proof I am open to read any article from a real source.
Chaisson at 9 passing on all those players has nothing to do with TC. It is clear he would have reached for him.


I do remember people talking (maybe even posting a link) about Khan's being in love with Bradley, let's say it is absolutely true, still Caldwell is a joke. You are the GM and you let your owner with 0 football knowledge choose the HC for you? really? You are absolutely to blame for the bad results anyway.
Fact is Caldwell is here and he has Marrone here, and he is obviously ok with Wash being here.
Caldwell was ok with Khan bringing someone to do his job and take away all the power he had...

How many current GMs would have let all those things happen to them? is this really the kind of person you want as a GM in your team?

He also supposedly thinks he has a QB in Minshew still gives him no tools to succeed, except a TE that has missed a ton of games and a WR (Schenault) that has had some injury problems too.

Think about what you said here for a second...

If you mean that owners some times choose the HC without consulting the GM, sure, it happens, except Khan had no experience whatsoever.

If I am Caldwell I don't take the job, easy. I have a job with the Falcons and I am not gonna put in jeopardy my reputation letting a guy who is a total noob choose the HC I am gonna work with.

---

I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

What is the Jaguars record as Dave Caldwell GM and/or part of the Jaguar staff?

Easily one of if not the worst winning percentage in the NFL.

---

What is the Jaguars record as Dave Caldwell GM and/or part of the Jaguar staff?

Easily one of if not the worst winning percentage in the NFL.

36 - 76 since 2013. 2 - 1 in the play-off's though. So, I guess when they're barely good enough to make the play-off's they're good enough to surprise people.

The most painful part of that record though is the following:

26 - 34 at home. That's with some of those "home" games being played in London. So more like probably 22, 23 - 34 since 2013 at home. And they have the nerve to take another home game away from Jacksonville after the season ticket holders have held this [BLEEP] show's tent up for them year in and year out.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

It's really not Caldwell's fault...

Is he the best? Nope.

Is he the worst? Not even close.

He's probably between 9th and 17th best in the league... right there in meh territory.

We COULD do better. We COULD do worse.

I think, bottom line, coaching hasn't gotten the talent to get where they could go... and I think ownership is solely in charge of hiring coaches.

---

I would like to see what this team would have been 2018-2019 and where it would be now had Coughlin not derailed Caldwell's work.

When the Khans brought Coughlin in, I saw it as a move to hire an experienced hand to serve as a liaison between Mr. Khan and the football operation and, to a lesser extent, provide guidance to their young GM. However, TC's autocratic, interfering ways destroyed a lot, from barking about "winning lunch" to ripping our best player publicly and driving him out of Jacksonville (fortunately, Caldwell was able to swindle the Rams lol).

People over there were likely walking on eggshells.

---

Season Ticket holder since 2004.

 

        

Some fans have no idea what a good front office actually looks like because it's been so long that we had one. So they think Caldwell is actually good instead of looking around the league and seeing that he isn't, but hey, that one year was good

---

This is  popcorn thread, just a back and forth winner-less argument. Hopefully, nobody is permanently scarred when it finally fades away.

My 2 cents:
1. Caldwell took over in 2013 and in 2017 had the team in the AFC Championship Game and in good shape salary
   cap-wise.
2. 2017: enter Tom Coughlin

Enough Said.

NH3...

---

"AZANE"