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Trader Trent?

#1

One of the most persistent complaints on this message board regarding this team's draft strategy is this team's reluctance/refusal to trade down in the draft.  Aside from Shack Harris' trade down from 17 to 21 in 2007 (Reggie Nelson/Brady Quinn draft), instances of the Jaguars accumulating draft picks by trading down are almost non existent.

However, with eleven (11) draft picks, including five of the top 65 picks, there seems ample opportunity for this team to move either direction in the draft/

The question is what will the Jaguars' brass do with these picks?

That answer to that question is best ascertained-aside from waiting until the draft-by figuring out exactly how much influence new Jaguars GM Trent Baalke wields in the personnel decisions.

While he will never be mistaken for Jimmy Johnson, who made some fifty one (51) trades in his five (5) years with Dallas, Baalke's history as 49ers GM (2011-2016) suggests if he has considerable influence in the Jaguars draft room, the Jaguars will be quite active in moving up and down the board.

His draft day trades follow (maybe NOT an all inclusive list):

2011
  • Traded their 2nd round pick (#45), 4th round pick (#108), 5th round pick (#141) to Denver for their 2nd round pick (#36-Colin Kaepernick)
  • Traded the 49ers 3rd round pick (#76) to the Jaguars for their rd round pick #80)and 6th round pick (#182)
  • Traded 6th (#174) and 7th (#231) to Green bay for their 5th (#163)
2012
  • Moved down five spots from #92 in the 3rd round to the Colts for #87, their 4th round pick (2nd of the round) and a 2013 5th round pick
2013
  • Traded QB Alex Smith to Kansas City for the Chiefs 2nd round pick (#34 overall)
  • Traded their first round pick (#31) and 3rd round pick (#74) to Dallas for their first round pick (#18 overall)
  • Traded the 2nd round pick they got from KC for Alex Smith (#34 overall) to Tennessee for the tacks' 2nd round pick (#40) and 7th round pick (#216)
  • Moved up in the 2nd round, trading #61 and a 6th round pick (#173) fot the Packers pick (#55).  Later, they traded with Green Bay again  moving up 5 spots from 93 to 88, costing them a 7th round pick (#216)
2014
  • Sent a conditional 2015 conditional 4th round pick to Buffalo for WR Stevie Johnson
  • Traded the 63rd and 171 picks, plus a 2015 4th round pick to Denver for #56 and 242
  • Traded ##63 and 171 to Miami for #57 overall.
  • Traded #61 to the Jaguars for #70 and 150
  • Traded #94 to Cleveland for #106 and 180
2015
  • Traded down from 15 to 17 and picked up a 4th round pick (#117) from San Diego
2016
  • Traded up from #37, spending a 4th (#105) and a 6th (#178) to Kansas City for their first round pick (#28)  and 7th round pick (#249)
Granted, the 49ers were at a different point in their development than the Jaguars currently are.  Still, the above shows Baalke's overall strategy of aggressively moving up to get the players he wants, and moving down when he doesn't find the value.  If he has any sway in the Jaguars' draft room, I expect he'll employ similar strategies.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#2

The way I look at it is the Jaguars were the youngest team in the league last year. I think we should plug a bunch of holes in free agency and use the extra draft picks to move up and get players we really want in the draft. We have a lot of youth on this team. I don't think we need a ton more. Use the ammo to move up the draft and get better players.
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#3

(03-13-2021, 12:41 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: The way I look at it is the Jaguars were the youngest team in the league last year. I think we should plug a bunch of holes in free agency and use the extra draft picks to move up and get players we really want in  the draft.  We have a lot of youth on this team.  I don't think we need a ton more.  Use the ammo to move up the draft and get better players.

i believe this is a smart take. we just need to ensure that every guy we target in free agency and i'll say the first 3 rounds in the draft should be day 1 starters.... Obviously there will be depth signings in free agency or rotational DLmen or something, but im talking about the top flight guys.

We need to come away with at least an upgrade on S, OL (1 position at minimum), DT, TE & WR. Anything less and we're in for a less then 3 win season.
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#4

(03-13-2021, 12:41 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: The way I look at it is the Jaguars were the youngest team in the league last year. I think we should plug a bunch of holes in free agency and use the extra draft picks to move up and get players we really want in  the draft.  We have a lot of youth on this team.  I don't think we need a ton more.  Use the ammo to move up the draft and get better players.

Second. No way we add to the bevy of draft picks last year plus the undrafted.

Kyle Pitts or bust
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#5

(03-13-2021, 12:41 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: The way I look at it is the Jaguars were the youngest team in the league last year. I think we should plug a bunch of holes in free agency and use the extra draft picks to move up and get players we really want in  the draft.  We have a lot of youth on this team.  I don't think we need a ton more.  Use the ammo to move up the draft and get better players.

I agree we have a lot of youth on the team.

But that doesn't mean we have a lot of talent on the team, or that the talent we DO have matches the schemes.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#6

(03-13-2021, 01:21 AM)MJonesD_32 Wrote:
(03-13-2021, 12:41 AM)jaguarmvp Wrote: The way I look at it is the Jaguars were the youngest team in the league last year. I think we should plug a bunch of holes in free agency and use the extra draft picks to move up and get players we really want in  the draft.  We have a lot of youth on this team.  I don't think we need a ton more.  Use the ammo to move up the draft and get better players.

i believe this is a smart take. we just need to ensure that every guy we target in free agency and i'll say the first 3 rounds in the draft should be day 1 starters.... Obviously there will be depth signings in free agency or rotational DLmen or something, but im talking about the top flight guys.

We need to come away with at least an upgrade on S, OL (1 position at minimum), DT, TE & WR. Anything less and we're in for a less then 3 win season.


How many starters are you talking about?  You could argue both safeties need to be upgraded.

Who starts at CB opposite Henderson?  While Sidney Jones played well for us last year, he has had an unfortunate injury history that has kept him out of most of the games in his career.  Can he reliably be counted on to stay healthy?  Oh yeaah, he's currently a free agent.

If you are talking at least 1 position on the OL, that means there are probably more than one that needs upgrading, and that doesn't even count the possible loss of Norwell the possible regression of AJ Cann (who has been less than optimal most of his career, and Linder's injury history.

We are likely moving to a 3-4, which means more DT types than we would normally carry.  Assume we sign Tomlinson or Brown in free agency.  We'd have Hamilton and Tomlinson/Brown as 2 of our 3 down linemen.  Who would be the 3rd?

When you talk about upgrading WR, what are you talking about?  Are you talking about upgrading the guys like Cole and Conley who are leaving, or upgrading the guys like Chark and Shenault we think are actually pretty good?  You relying on rookies to upgrade these spots?

We have some pieces in place.  As bad as we are, it's not as hopeless as the Jets and Texans situations are.

But I think we'll need more talent than you suggest.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#7

Bullseye, thanks for taking the time to put together the list of Trent Baalke's draft trade history with the 49ers. This is excellent reference material.

One draft strategy in particular that I can envision the Jaguars using this year is trading one or two 2021 draft picks to acquire future draft picks. The Vikings under Rick Spielman and the Patriots under Bill Belichick have a long history of using this type of strategy.

Being that the Jaguars have a highly favorable draft pick situation in the 2021 Draft and the team brass almost certainly expects the Jags to be further along in 2022, having more draft leverage in 2022 makes a great deal of sense. That much more with the overall 2021 Draft crop being much more risky than a typical draft crop because of COVID-19.

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#8

In reading the list of trades, most were trading up. With 11 picks and already a young roster, it would not surprise me to see Baalke trade up in this draft.
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#9

(03-14-2021, 01:16 PM)D6 Wrote: Bullseye, thanks for taking the time to put together the list of Trent Baalke's draft trade history with the 49ers.  This is excellent reference material.  

One draft strategy in particular that I can envision the Jaguars using this year is trading one or two 2021 draft picks to acquire future draft picks.  The Vikings under Rick Spielman and the Patriots under Bill Belichick have a long history of using this type of strategy.

Being that the Jaguars have a highly favorable draft pick situation in the 2021 Draft and the team brass almost certainly expects the Jags to be further along in 2022,  having more draft leverage in 2022 makes a great deal of sense.  That much more with the overall 2021 Draft crop being much more risky than a typical draft crop because of  COVID-19.

A few problems with this:

1. The patriots draft has not been good the last few years.  They had the Goat playing for them so they had the luxury of not needing a stellar roster.  I can't speak for the vikings because I don't follow them enough.  Jefferson was a home run though!

2. This team needs immediate help now. It's hard to justify trading current picks away for the future.  The way I see it, this team needs as much help as possible now.

3. Meyer wants to win now. I see the focus as building this roster as strong as possible as fast as possible.
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#10

(03-14-2021, 03:18 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote:
(03-14-2021, 01:16 PM)D6 Wrote: Bullseye, thanks for taking the time to put together the list of Trent Baalke's draft trade history with the 49ers.  This is excellent reference material.  

One draft strategy in particular that I can envision the Jaguars using this year is trading one or two 2021 draft picks to acquire future draft picks.  The Vikings under Rick Spielman and the Patriots under Bill Belichick have a long history of using this type of strategy.

Being that the Jaguars have a highly favorable draft pick situation in the 2021 Draft and the team brass almost certainly expects the Jags to be further along in 2022,  having more draft leverage in 2022 makes a great deal of sense.  That much more with the overall 2021 Draft crop being much more risky than a typical draft crop because of  COVID-19.

A few problems with this:

1. The patriots draft has not been good the last few years.  They had the Goat playing for them so they had the luxury of not needing a stellar roster.  I can't speak for the vikings because I don't follow them enough.  Jefferson was a home run though!

2. This team needs immediate help now. It's hard to justify trading current picks away for the future.  The way I see it, this team needs as much help as possible now.

3. Meyer wants to win now. I see the focus as building this roster as strong as possible as fast as possible.

In recent years, the execution of the strategy has worked better for the Vikings than the Patriots. Far too often, the Patriots haven't taken advantage of the opportunities they created. 

One way of getting both help in a present draft and a future draft is along the lines of the following illustration.  The Jaguars use a 3rd Round pick in the 2021 Draft to trade for a lower Round pick in the 2021 Draft and a 3rd Round pick in the 2022 Draft. 

Because the Jaguars have the most salary cap space in 2021, they have the flexibility of filling needs with veteran players that no other team has. That's one reason why I believe increasing future draft resources will be at the very least be seriously considered by Urban Meyer.

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#11
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2021, 06:35 PM by Bullseye.)

(03-14-2021, 01:16 PM)D6 Wrote: Bullseye, thanks for taking the time to put together the list of Trent Baalke's draft trade history with the 49ers.  This is excellent reference material.  

One draft strategy in particular that I can envision the Jaguars using this year is trading one or two 2021 draft picks to acquire future draft picks.  The Vikings under Rick Spielman and the Patriots under Bill Belichick have a long history of using this type of strategy.

Being that the Jaguars have a highly favorable draft pick situation in the 2021 Draft and the team brass almost certainly expects the Jags to be further along in 2022,  having more draft leverage in 2022 makes a great deal of sense.  That much more with the overall 2021 Draft crop being much more risky than a typical draft crop because of  COVID-19.

I could see that happening at 25, if

1.  The Jaguars are unsuccessful in trading up for a guy they want.

2.  The guy(s) the Jaguars are targeting at 25 are gone

3.  if there is a team in the 2nd round wanting to move up for a guy they don't think will be there, like in 2007, when Cleveland traded their first round pick in 2008 to Dallas so they could draft Brady Quinn.

4.  The real wildcard here is if Meyer wants to deal down.  Considering he is friends with Belichick, who has often traded down, and consulted Jimmy Johnson, who loved trading back, I think he may be willing to trade back under the right circumstances.

(03-14-2021, 02:52 PM)ATLjag Wrote: In reading the list of trades, most were trading up.  With 11 picks and already a young roster, it would not surprise me to see Baalke trade up in this draft.

It wouldn't be a total shock to see the team trade up, though you can argue, at least for this draft, the team would value quantity almost as quality given the numerous holes on the roster.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#12

(03-14-2021, 03:18 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote:
(03-14-2021, 01:16 PM)D6 Wrote: Bullseye, thanks for taking the time to put together the list of Trent Baalke's draft trade history with the 49ers.  This is excellent reference material.  

One draft strategy in particular that I can envision the Jaguars using this year is trading one or two 2021 draft picks to acquire future draft picks.  The Vikings under Rick Spielman and the Patriots under Bill Belichick have a long history of using this type of strategy.

Being that the Jaguars have a highly favorable draft pick situation in the 2021 Draft and the team brass almost certainly expects the Jags to be further along in 2022,  having more draft leverage in 2022 makes a great deal of sense.  That much more with the overall 2021 Draft crop being much more risky than a typical draft crop because of  COVID-19.

A few problems with this:

1. The patriots draft has not been good the last few years.  They had the Goat playing for them so they had the luxury of not needing a stellar roster.  I can't speak for the vikings because I don't follow them enough.  Jefferson was a home run though!

2. This team needs immediate help now. It's hard to justify trading current picks away for the future.  The way I see it, this team needs as much help as possible now.

3. Meyer wants to win now. I see the focus as building this roster as strong as possible as fast as possible.

1.  Yes the Patriots have not been good drafters over the past few seasons.  However, Meyer has recently come from the college ranks as a coach and analyst.  I am betting he is more familiar with the players (at least this year) than Belichick was the past few years.  Because they kept going to the Super Bowl, Belichick himself would not see the players until early to mid February. and because the Patriots picked so late, they would miss out on the best prospects.  Meyer may see the value in trading back and accumulating more picks, but feel more confident in his ability to identify talent-at least short term.

2.  I'm betting he would favor getting more immediate help.  but sometimes teams will make offers to good to refuse.  I know I favor immediate help, but if someone offered their 2nd round pick, another later pick, and next year's 1st for 25, I'd seriously consider it.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#13

I think with 11 picks we just need to go ahead and draft BAP. Maybe one trade up balanced with one trade down as well. We need picks, but we also already have 11, so I’m not sure extra 6-7th rounders is likely to help that much. I would rather take our chances on what we already have in the first 3 rounds.
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#14

(03-14-2021, 07:27 PM)Newton Wrote: I think with 11 picks we just need to go ahead and draft BAP. Maybe one trade up balanced with one trade down as well. We need picks, but we also already have 11, so I’m not sure extra 6-7th rounders is likely to help that much. I would rather take our chances on what we already have in the first 3 rounds.

Ultimately, I think what we do in the draft will be dictated by how successful our free agency period will be.  I think if we get the quality and numbers we want in free agency, we won't be as dependent on numbers in the draft.   But if we don't get the guys we really want, I would expect trades down to compensate.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#15

I wouldn't go into the draft particularly expecting to trade.  I don't like the idea of trading away any of our first five picks as I think they can be five starters.  If I traded up, I only would want to use our 4th rounders or later as part of the deal.  The one exception would maybe be left tackle if we don't acquire one during free agency.  That would be a huge need at an important position.  If we could trade up and get one of the good tackles, I'd consider it.

As for trading down, I don't see a strong reason to do so.  We already have extra draft picks.  In this case, I'd prefer quality over quantity.  The main reason I trade down is if need doesn't coincide with value at the pick.  However, this team has so many needs, that I think we can make need and value line up together.  We also have extra picks.  If the position we ideally want at 33 isn't available, then we wait until 45, etc.  Of course, if a team gives a deal "too good to pass up", you consider it.

If it was up to me, I would likely stay put.
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#16

(03-14-2021, 08:34 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: I wouldn't go into the draft particularly expecting to trade.  I don't like the idea of trading away any of our first five picks as I think they can be five starters.  If I traded up, I only would want to use our 4th rounders or later as part of the deal.  The one exception would maybe be left tackle if we don't acquire one during free agency.  That would be a huge need at an important position.  If we could trade up and get one of the good tackles, I'd consider it.

As for trading down, I don't see a strong reason to do so.  We already have extra draft picks.  In this case, I'd prefer quality over quantity.  The main reason I trade down is if need doesn't coincide with value at the pick.  However, this team has so many needs, that I think we can make need and value line up together.  We also have extra picks.  If the position we ideally want at 33 isn't available, then we wait until 45, etc.  Of course, if a team gives a deal "too good to pass up", you consider it.

If it was up to me, I would likely stay put.

If you would only use a 4th round pick or later, chances are you aren't looking to move up very far. Fortunately, that may be all it takes to get the player you want.

As for moving down, I suppose it would depend of the success of free agency and how deep they think the draft is.

Given Baalke's history, and Meyer's consulting with Jimmy Johnson and his friendship with Belichick, I wouldn't be surprised to see them trade down.  Would I expect is?  No.  Trades are far easier to make on a message board than in real life.  But Baalke seems inclined to move up and down the board, and he has the picks and the needs to do so.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#17

Jags 3 first round picks?

Pick 1st overall

Pick 25 or use lower draft stock to move up

Trade 33rd overall and say a 4th rounder to move back in the last 20's.
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#18

So far, the Jaguars have executed two trades this first day of the league year:

the one for for NT Marcus Brown, and the trade of Josh Oliver.

One possible trade of QB Gardner Minshew..?
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#19

How high could we trade up if we packaged the 25th and 33rd pick? Or is that too much to give up in a trade?
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#20

Depends if you would rather have Kyle Pitt’s or moerhig and friermuth
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