The next time you hear the trope "any publicity is good publicity" just link this thread as the counterfactual checkmate.

What? A thread full of Tebow cultists and bed wetters who do nothing but gnash teeth and hand wring at the mention of his name?

He still has the number 1 & 2 top jerseys sales in the NFL.. Even bad publicity can be better than no publicity.. I'd rather be talked about than forgotten..

Which just proves how sad and delusional the tebow cultists really are 

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You don't have to be a Tebow cultists to root for him and hope he does well, just like you don't have to be a hater to think their are better options out there for TE.

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You don't have to be a Tebow cultists to root for him and hope he does well, just like you don't have to be a hater to think their are better options out there for TE.

There's a lot of players I root for in the league, but that doesn't mean I'm going to throw away a few hundreds bucks on a jersey/or go to team's message boards every time he/they join a new team. Especially when they aren't any good and are usually only on each team for a bout 1-2 months anyways.

That goes a little beyond rooting for somebody and more along the lines of an unhealthy obsession.

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You don't have to be a Tebow cultists to root for him and hope he does well, just like you don't have to be a hater to think their are better options out there for TE.

You're going to get chased out of here with this reasoning dude.... You are either a cultist or bed wetter. COME ON, MAN! lol.

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Routing for a comeback story is so wrong. Smh in disgust

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Why couldn't he beat out Mark Sanchez?

You know why. You watched every Tebow game in Denver.

It's a conspiracy! Despite getting 2 chances in sports he hasn't remotely earned because of cronyism and $$$

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What? A thread full of Tebow cultists and bed wetters who do nothing but gnash teeth and hand wring at the mention of his name?

He still has the number 1 & 2 top jerseys sales in the NFL.. Even bad publicity can be better than no publicity.. I'd rather be talked about than forgotten..

Which just proves how sad and delusional the tebow cultists really are 

Maybe.. But really, who are you to judge? Just because you and others piss and whine about the player, doesn't mean others have to as well..

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I would be pleased with ANY Jaguar having a breakout season... including Tebow. Not holding my breath though for it to happen.

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Tell ya the truth, I'd rather come to a board full of Tebow cultists than a board full of pissin' and moanin'.. At least the Tebow cultists are actually excited about something around here. I really don't care how outlandish it is, it's better than reading constant whining about the HC or his draft picks..

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Tell ya the truth, I'd rather come to a board full of Tebow cultists than a board full of pissin' and moanin'.. At least the Tebow cultists are actually excited about something around here. I really don't care how outlandish it is, it's better than reading constant whining about the HC or his draft picks..

There was already plenty of excitement around here with the drafting of Lawrence.

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Tell ya the truth, I'd rather come to a board full of Tebow cultists than a board full of pissin' and moanin'.. At least the Tebow cultists are actually excited about something around here. I really don't care how outlandish it is, it's better than reading constant whining about the HC or his draft picks..

There was already plenty of excitement around here with the drafting of Lawrence.

Yeah, I disagree.. We just went through hell and back because of the draft, or should I say, because of Meyer's draft choices.

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There was already plenty of excitement around here with the drafting of Lawrence.

Yeah, I disagree.. We just went through hell and back because of the draft, or should I say, because of Meyer's draft choices.

If that's your opinion that's your opinion.  You talked about Tebow cultists.  Well, you've got the same board experts being hyper-critical about the draft every...single...year.  By and large, people were excited about thr draft.

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Tebow needs to learn how to run a route. Why does he run with his hands down?

It’s comical. He was stopping the ground bc he’s never ran a route.

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The next time you hear the trope "any publicity is good publicity" just link this thread as the counterfactual checkmate.

What? A thread full of Tebow cultists and bed wetters who do nothing but gnash teeth and hand wring at the mention of his name?

He still has the number 1 & 2 top jerseys sales in the NFL.. Even bad publicity can be better than no publicity.. I'd rather be talked about than forgotten..

Other than those directly profiting from the sales, who would possibly care about this statistic?

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When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

Yeah, I disagree.. We just went through hell and back because of the draft, or should I say, because of Meyer's draft choices.

If that's your opinion that's your opinion.  You talked about Tebow cultists.  Well, you've got the same board experts being hyper-critical about the draft every...single...year.  By and large, people were excited about thr draft.

Yeah, every single year we do have hyper critical over zealous armchair GM's.. That comes with the territory, but you can't deny that this year has been one of the worst because of Meyer.. He had handfuls of people on here bashing him before he even became the HC, so of course, it's going to be even worse because he's the HC. 

Yeah, people were definitely excited for this draft because of TLaw, and they should be. But that story got burried pretty quick, first because of ETN, then because of Tebow.

We have arguably one of the best QB draft picks since Manning, and judging by the post count of the 3 main threads (Tlaw, ETN and Tebow), it seems people are more upset with Tebow joining the Jags than celebrating TLaw being selected by the Jags. There's way more to this team than a 4th string TE who shouldn't even make the final roster.

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What? A thread full of Tebow cultists and bed wetters who do nothing but gnash teeth and hand wring at the mention of his name?

He still has the number 1 & 2 top jerseys sales in the NFL.. Even bad publicity can be better than no publicity.. I'd rather be talked about than forgotten..

Other than those directly profiting from the sales, who would possibly care about this statistic?

The organization should care.. And I bet it does. Brand recognition is covered in Marketing 101..

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There was already plenty of excitement around here with the drafting of Lawrence.

Yeah, I disagree.. We just went through hell and back because of the draft, or should I say, because of Meyer's draft choices.

But why would you expect anything else?

Before every draft there is pro and con debate over various subjects.

Which direction should the team go?

Offense or defense?

Trade up, trade down, or stand pat?

Is player A good or not?  Who should we take between two different players?

While I don't always agree with the conclusions a poster or posters will reach (nor they mine), most of the debate and disagreements are reasoned and have the Jaguars best interests at heart.  However, none of these discussions involve the Jaguars' brass.  We will link to various clips or quotes from team officials or coaches trying to get some indicia of what they are thinking, while also hoping they don't tip their hands to the other teams.

So when the Jaguars actually pick the players, why would the dynamic change any if the pre draft debate was earnest, honest, impassioned, and engaged with the Jaguars best interest at heart?  If the Jaguars have the temerity to actually disagree with some of our takes
 and go in different directions, why wouldn't there be some disagreement?  

It stands to reason there would be some pro-con debate afterwards.  Those who were opposed to drafting a RB in the first round before the draft won't be pleased when the Jaguars take a RB in the first round, whether it was UM pulling the trigger on the move or some other coach.  Those who strongly advocated for a TE pre draft are naturally going to strongly express their disappointment when no TE at all is drafted by the team, and the only attempts to upgrade the position are Chris Manhertz and Tim Tebow.  That would have happened no matter who the coach was.  It wasn't going to be simply an UM thing.  

I will say that after the 2014 and 2016 draft, this board was pretty much uniform in being happy about what the Jaguars draft produced.  Very few complaints to be heard.  It turns out, those drafts wound up pretty good.

However, I hasten to add the overall tenor of the board in the immediate aftermath of the 2009-20111 drafts was "in Gene we trust."  Almost everyone here rubber stamped their approval on everything the team did.  Where did that get us?  Did the general lack of dissent make those drafts any better?  No.  I get no  satisfaction being one of the few voices of dissent in those years, because it means the Jaguars were unsuccessful.  I'm sure if you polled those critical of this year's draft for whatever reasons, you'd see a similar sentiment.

I can't recall a single voice of dissent over the Trevor Lawrence pick among the regulars on this board.  Subsequent picks?  Yes, there was disagreement.  But again, why is that unexpected?

To be honest, the only thing I care about is that the team got it right.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If that's your opinion that's your opinion.  You talked about Tebow cultists.  Well, you've got the same board experts being hyper-critical about the draft every...single...year.  By and large, people were excited about thr draft.

Yeah, every single year we do have hyper critical over zealous armchair GM's.. That comes with the territory, but you can't deny that this year has been one of the worst because of Meyer.. He had handfuls of people on here bashing him before he even became the HC, so of course, it's going to be even worse because he's the HC. 

Yeah, people were definitely excited for this draft because of TLaw, and they should be. But that story got burried pretty quick, first because of ETN, then because of Tebow.

We have arguably one of the best QB draft picks since Manning, and judging by the post count of the 3 main threads (Tlaw, ETN and Tebow), it seems people are more upset with Tebow joining the Jags than celebrating TLaw being selected by the Jags. There's way more to this team than a 4th string TE who shouldn't even make the final roster.

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Other than those directly profiting from the sales, who would possibly care about this statistic?

The organization should care.. And I bet it does. Brand recognition is covered in Marketing 101..

People can be very excited for the season and at the same time, critical of some moves. This board would be very boring if it was “hey. Lets wait and see how it plays out first” for everyone.

Me personally. This is the most excited for a season I think I’ve ever been. Lawrence at the helm with 3 legit WRs and a competent running game? Sign me up. However, I’m also critical of the Tebow signing, Urbans decision making at times and the OLine.

I feel like this is where many land on this season but if one critical position is brought up, it’s immediately met with “you’re just a hater”.

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So good to see that you are conceding on the Elway nonsense.  The Michael Jordan of QB talent evaluation.

You are moving the goal posts however with EJ Manuel, Couch, Losman, Boller.
Let me ask you this. How many NFL playoff games and NCAA National Championships did Ponder/Gabbert/Couch/EJ Maneul/Losman/Boller win?

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You delude yourself.

I am conceding nothing on the Elway point.  Drafting is only part of the equation.  Purging the roster of dead weight and knowing when to upgrade a position on a roster with free agents or vets is also key.  Once again, you completely DUCKED that argument.

As far as moving the goalposts, nothing could be further from the truth.  If anything I am trying desperately to get you to substantively address Tebow's shortcomings.  I have offered objective, statistical evidence that as a passer, Tebow wasn't as good as his predecessor in the position, nor was he as good as his successor in the position.  I have offered evidence showing that the Denver offense as a whole was less productive with him at the helm than his predecessor and his successor.  I have offered objective statistical evidence that the passing yardage decreased when Tebow was inserted.  I have offered objective statistical evidence showing your claim that Tebow was responsible for Denver's improved rushing totals was overstated, pointing out Willis McGahee nearly doubled Tebow's rushing output.  Nothing you have offered negates or even mitigates ANY of this.

Then I appealed to history and common sense.  You have offered the tacit assertion that Elway had some sort of nefarious agenda in dumping Tebow having nothing to do with football or Tebow's on field performance, minimally at best substantiated by fact.  I pointed out Elway was a former QB that understands the position.  You offered the missed draft picks, as if the failure of Elway to draft a good QB somehow makes Tebow a better QB in the analysis.  I pointed out that even assuming Elway had some sort of axe to grind against Tebow, that alone does not explain the refusal of every other team in the league to make Tebow a starting QB.  We have yet to hear you address that point at all, much less substantively.  When I pointed out that QB is such an in demand position, that even a guy like Rob Johnson merited a first round pick plus a 4th round pick in trade, while Tebow had a far lengthier on field record and could only command a 4th, you respond by incredibly offering there's no demand for a great QB and that somehow Denver's interest in ridding itself of Tebow eliminates the need to maximize any possible return they could get for him.

Your pathetic filibuster continued when you continued to duck my question about why the analysis of mobile QBs with limited passing proficiency should not apply to Tebow.  Long after I posed the question, as of this post, you have yet to address that issue.  You then became indignant at the idea I would lump Tebow in with the likes of Christian Ponder and suggested I should give Tebow more respect.  Yet when I posted links comparing Tebow's numbers were worse in most passing categories than every single bust QB I listed, instead of showing how Tebow's numbers were substantially better as to not warrant comparison, you accuse me of moving the goal post in offering those numbers for comparison.  If Tebow was demonstrably better than those guys, it isn't a particularly onerous burden to show how Tebow's career far exceeds theirs.  Instead, you pose the question as to how many playoff games and college national championships the bust QBs I have listed have won.

Unlike you, I won't duck that inquiry.  I will address it directly.  All of those QBs have exactly ONE (1) fewer playoff win than Tebow.  WHoop de [BLEEP] doo!  As far as college national championships....who in the blue hell cares?  Danny Wuerffel, Chris Weinke, Jamelle Holloway, Jay Barker have all won National Championships in college. (We'll call this group A) Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, John Elway, Dan Marino, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Troy Aikman, Patrick Mahomes and Brett Favre did not.  (we'll call this group B.  Which group represents the best NFL QBs?

As others have pointed out, it's sad that in a forum devoted to NFL football, you have to resort to college national championships to somehow puff up the pro career of Tim Tebow.  It's a tacit admission that his pro performance cannot stand on it's own merit.

Lol, Manning became available in Free Agency, all the teams tried to go after the HOF. It's not like Elway discovered some diamond in the rough. Elway's a horrible evaluator of talent, especially at the QB position. You still can't answer why he traded up for a spread QB like Paxton Lynch and passed on Dak Prescott. That was a completely wasted draft pick, a zero.

You can offer all the stats and medals you want but it's the stats you omit that are troubling. Hiding Win-Loss stats on Kyle Orton and your other QB friends. Kyle Orton is a career loser who throws up garbage stats and was too busy drinking and taking selfies. You've lost the ability to see the forest from the trees if you don't think winning is the most important stat.

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You delude yourself.

I am conceding nothing on the Elway point.  Drafting is only part of the equation.  Purging the roster of dead weight and knowing when to upgrade a position on a roster with free agents or vets is also key.  Once again, you completely DUCKED that argument.

As far as moving the goalposts, nothing could be further from the truth.  If anything I am trying desperately to get you to substantively address Tebow's shortcomings.  I have offered objective, statistical evidence that as a passer, Tebow wasn't as good as his predecessor in the position, nor was he as good as his successor in the position.  I have offered evidence showing that the Denver offense as a whole was less productive with him at the helm than his predecessor and his successor.  I have offered objective statistical evidence that the passing yardage decreased when Tebow was inserted.  I have offered objective statistical evidence showing your claim that Tebow was responsible for Denver's improved rushing totals was overstated, pointing out Willis McGahee nearly doubled Tebow's rushing output.  Nothing you have offered negates or even mitigates ANY of this.

Then I appealed to history and common sense.  You have offered the tacit assertion that Elway had some sort of nefarious agenda in dumping Tebow having nothing to do with football or Tebow's on field performance, minimally at best substantiated by fact.  I pointed out Elway was a former QB that understands the position.  You offered the missed draft picks, as if the failure of Elway to draft a good QB somehow makes Tebow a better QB in the analysis.  I pointed out that even assuming Elway had some sort of axe to grind against Tebow, that alone does not explain the refusal of every other team in the league to make Tebow a starting QB.  We have yet to hear you address that point at all, much less substantively.  When I pointed out that QB is such an in demand position, that even a guy like Rob Johnson merited a first round pick plus a 4th round pick in trade, while Tebow had a far lengthier on field record and could only command a 4th, you respond by incredibly offering there's no demand for a great QB and that somehow Denver's interest in ridding itself of Tebow eliminates the need to maximize any possible return they could get for him.

Your pathetic filibuster continued when you continued to duck my question about why the analysis of mobile QBs with limited passing proficiency should not apply to Tebow.  Long after I posed the question, as of this post, you have yet to address that issue.  You then became indignant at the idea I would lump Tebow in with the likes of Christian Ponder and suggested I should give Tebow more respect.  Yet when I posted links comparing Tebow's numbers were worse in most passing categories than every single bust QB I listed, instead of showing how Tebow's numbers were substantially better as to not warrant comparison, you accuse me of moving the goal post in offering those numbers for comparison.  If Tebow was demonstrably better than those guys, it isn't a particularly onerous burden to show how Tebow's career far exceeds theirs.  Instead, you pose the question as to how many playoff games and college national championships the bust QBs I have listed have won.

Unlike you, I won't duck that inquiry.  I will address it directly.  All of those QBs have exactly ONE (1) fewer playoff win than Tebow.  WHoop de [BLEEP] doo!  As far as college national championships....who in the blue hell cares?  Danny Wuerffel, Chris Weinke, Jamelle Holloway, Jay Barker have all won National Championships in college. (We'll call this group A) Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, John Elway, Dan Marino, Big Ben, Drew Brees, Troy Aikman, Patrick Mahomes and Brett Favre did not.  (we'll call this group B.  Which group represents the best NFL QBs?

As others have pointed out, it's sad that in a forum devoted to NFL football, you have to resort to college national championships to somehow puff up the pro career of Tim Tebow.  It's a tacit admission that his pro performance cannot stand on it's own merit.

Lol, Manning became available in Free Agency, all the teams tried to go after the HOF. It's not like Elway discovered some diamond in the rough. Elway's a horrible evaluator of talent, especially at the QB position. You still can't answer why he traded up for a spread QB like Paxton Lynch and passed on Dak Prescott. That was a completely wasted draft pick, a zero.

You can offer all the stats and medals you want but it's the stats you omit that are troubling. Hiding Win-Loss stats on Kyle Orton and your other QB friends. Kyle Orton is a career loser who throws up garbage stats and was too busy drinking and taking selfies. You've lost the ability to see the forest from the trees if you don't think winning is the most important stat.

Tebow was 8-6 as a starter.  One game above .500.

BFD.

Now what?

Still addresses absolutely ZERO of the stuff I raised.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Lol, Manning became available in Free Agency, all the teams tried to go after the HOF. It's not like Elway discovered some diamond in the rough. Elway's a horrible evaluator of talent, especially at the QB position. You still can't answer why he traded up for a spread QB like Paxton Lynch and passed on Dak Prescott. That was a completely wasted draft pick, a zero.

You can offer all the stats and medals you want but it's the stats you omit that are troubling. Hiding Win-Loss stats on Kyle Orton and your other QB friends. Kyle Orton is a career loser who throws up garbage stats and was too busy drinking and taking selfies. You've lost the ability to see the forest from the trees if you don't think winning is the most important stat.

Tebow was 8-6 as a starter.  One game above .500.

BFD.

Now what?

Still addresses absolutely ZERO of the stuff I raised.

But he just wiiiiinnnnsssss!!!!!

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato