... didn't realize this topic would still be going......


It's really had to assess the subject of attendance at this point because everything about the 2 teams are the exact opposite. You have history vs no-history, you have $100 tickets vs $10 tickets, you have snow vs sun, you have 7am tailgating vs 11am tailgating, you have 3 major teams vs 1 major team, there's free t-shirts, coupon booklets, etc .........


Jag personnel & fans are doing their part given the nature of the team.... hard to get too excited when we're 0-8 and have been outscored by almost 20 points in those initial games.... i know ate my tix once last year by staying home to get the lawn cut and spend time w/ the family.

And you also will have a hard time ranking the importance of each. Steelers have had a crazy amount of success. Really I don't know who else to compare the to as far as consistency. If Jags were winning our ticket prices would certainly be higher and people would pay that price. Also tradition is a huge factor. Those two, winning and tradition to me drive ticket sales more than higher price vs lower price.

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I said you were wrong about Detroit showing up even when their teams performed badly. And you were wrong which I backed up.. That is not an opinion.

You presented what the 2009 Jaguars did as a fan base. We aren't talking about the 2009 Jaguars. We are talking about the 2013/14 Jags under new owner and leadership. No one would argue that if the Jags sell only 49,000 tickets per game that we would be in trouble. Of course we would. But that isn't the current state of the Jags or this fan base.


You said I didn't understand your point in why you chose browns and lions. The problem is you didn't tie in that point that those fan bases can withstand down ticket sales. You said they supported their teams regardless. Browns have/did, Lion fans did not. Then you said your point was they could withstand down sales and poor play because of tradition. But you didn't make that point earlier. You said they still supported their team regardless. That was not the case with the Lion fans.

You need to do more research. Let's take Detroit. In 2009, the year after they went 0-16, the Detroit Lions average attendance was 49,395 and 31st in the league. They were even 1 spot behind the Jaguars that year who were 30th. Jaguars on the other hand average 10,000 more fans per game after a 2-14 season.


Can't argue Cleveland. They have good fans and certainly deserve better.


Jag fans have done fine considering how bad we have been recently and short history. They have increased ticket sales dramatically since even 2009 by 10,000 tickets per game. Now Khan and Company need to start delivering on their end. Khan and Lamping have stated as much that they are responsible as well.

 

This is unreal.

 

First, in one of your earlier quotes, you referenced the 2009 Lions. I compared Detroit's and Jax's home attendance for that season to show you my point about fan support.

 

All of a sudden, you want to pivot on your stance saying "we are not talking about the 09 Jaguars", yet you was quick to reference the 09 season (regarding the Lions) home attendance in the first place.

 

You keep ignoring the fact that the Lions only had 2 blackouts compared to the Jags 7 that season, but never mind that this is 2014. Certain facts dont register in your brain.

 

Bottom line is there is no reason to brag about being in the bottom half of attendance, nor point the finger at other fan bases about their attendance rankings. The reality is the Jacksonville (and surrounding communities) still have a huge mountain to climb.  

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Mike & Mike is awful

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This is unreal.

 

First, in one of your earlier quotes, you referenced the 2009 Lions. I compared Detroit's and Jax's home attendance for that season to show you my point about fan support.

 

All of a sudden, you want to pivot on your stance saying "we are not talking about the 09 Jaguars", yet you was quick to reference the 09 season (regarding the Lions) home attendance in the first place.

 

You keep ignoring the fact that the Lions only had 2 blackouts compared to the Jags 7 that season, but never mind that this is 2014. Certain facts dont register in your brain.

 

Bottom line is there is no reason to brag about being in the bottom half of attendance, nor point the finger at other fan bases about their attendance rankings. The reality is the Jacksonville (and surrounding communities) still have a huge mountain to climb.  

 

So your point about 2009 Detroit and 2009 Jax is that even with tradition, some fan bases still don't show up when their team is playing bad?  Even though you said they did?  

 

I referenced 2009 Detroit because they had a very comparable record one year heading into the next and same record in 2009 as we had in 2013.  The point of the exercise is to show even fan bases with tradition will see an impact in ticket sales if their teams product is poor on the field.  We were talking about Jaguars today.  You referenced two fan bases and said they supported their team regardless of play on the field.  I had to use a similar situation in which Detroit was bad one year and show how that affected sales the next.  So yes, we are talking about Jaguars today.  2009 ticket sales has no impact on today's Jaguars.  The reason I brought up 2009 Detroit is to show even teams with tradition can see an impact on ticket sales if there is poor performance on the field.  I know, unreal  :woot: .

 

Blackouts really don't matter.  I'm not sure what that even proves.  That just means we had more seats to fill than Detroit, but we still had more attend the game than them (even if is was by a small margin).  Again though, 2009 Jags don't affect today's Jags.  Matters what we do from here on out both attendance and play on the field. 

 

We don't have a huge mountain to climb.  In 2009 we had a huge mountain to climb.  We were selling about 49,000 tickets per game.  Last year we sold 64,000+ and this year 59,000+.  We had a combined 6-32 record.  I think what people are saying is considering how bad we are and how bad we have been, the fans have been doing a decent job (again, all things considered).  Could we do better?   Of course, but I don't think anyone should be beating this fan base up for what they have done the last two years.  Remember, we just came off probably the most difficult year I can ever remember in 2012 and the next year we started the first 8 games looking like the worst team in NFL history.  Anyways, sure, sounds like excuses, but my opinion is fans have done their part last few years.  Now the owner and GM need to put at least a respectable team on the field which I think they will.

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Mike & Mike is awful

 

Agreed.  So is having a discussion with JFC.  Yet I can't help myself for some reason.  

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So your point about 2009 Detroit and 2009 Jax is that even with tradition, some fan bases still don't show up when their team is playing bad?  Even though you said they did?  

 

I referenced 2009 Detroit because they had a very comparable record one year heading into the next and same record in 2009 as we had in 2013.  The point of the exercise is to show even fan bases with tradition will see an impact in ticket sales if their teams product is poor on the field.  We were talking about Jaguars today.  You referenced two fan bases and said they supported their team regardless of play on the field.  I had to use a similar situation in which Detroit was bad one year and show how that affected sales the next.  So yes, we are talking about Jaguars today.  2009 ticket sales has no impact on today's Jaguars.  The reason I brought up 2009 Detroit is to show even teams with tradition can see an impact on ticket sales if there is poor performance on the field.  I know, unreal  :woot: .

 

Blackouts really don't matter.  I'm not sure what that even proves.  That just means we had more seats to fill than Detroit, but we still had more attend the game than them (even if is was by a small margin).  Again though, 2009 Jags don't affect today's Jags.  Matters what we do from here on out both attendance and play on the field. 

 

We don't have a huge mountain to climb.  In 2009 we had a huge mountain to climb.  We were selling about 49,000 tickets per game.  Last year we sold 64,000+ and this year 59,000+.  We had a combined 6-32 record.  I think what people are saying is considering how bad we are and how bad we have been, the fans have been doing a decent job (again, all things considered).  Could we do better?   Of course, but I don't think anyone should be beating this fan base up for what they have done the last two years.  Remember, we just came off probably the most difficult year I can ever remember in 2012 and the next year we started the first 8 games looking like the worst team in NFL history.  Anyways, sure, sounds like excuses, but my opinion is fans have done their part last few years.  Now the owner and GM need to put at least a respectable team on the field which I think they will.

 

So again for about the third time, my point is teams that have longstanding football traditions with attendance problems are given slight leeway with the national media. Jacksonville dosent have this luxury. 

 

Again you was first to reference anything about 2009.

 

Now blackouts dont matter even though I included facts and (blackout) is part of the overall assumption about the fan support of the Jaguars.

 

If we have to resort to giving away free tickets (regardless of the on-field performance) yes we have a long uphill battle.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

Agreed.  So is having a discussion with JFC.  Yet I can't help myself for some reason.  

 

I feel the same way about you.

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Whether someone has a liberal, or conservative viewpoint, a authoritative figure should not lock a thread for the sole purpose to get the last word in all the while prohibiting someone else from being able to respond.

I feel the same way about you.

Oh I'm sure you do.

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So again for about the third time, my point is teams that have longstanding football traditions with attendance problems are given slight leeway with the national media. Jacksonville dosent have this luxury.


Again you was first to reference anything about 2009.


Now blackouts dont matter even though I included facts and (blackout) is part of the overall assumption about the fan support of the Jaguars.


If we have to resort to giving away free tickets (regardless of the on-field performance) yes we have a long uphill battle.

Perception is a Jaguar thing. Reality isn't. This is something many different teams are facing. The market is changing. And after the economic collapse, people have made other things priority especially when it is so much cheaper on TV. That is why we have seen teams almost have blackouts in the playoffs.


Anyways, I don't believe we are in a big hole if we start winning. This fan base is ready to explode for a winning team. If we keep having years like 2013 and 2014 than yes, we could definitely be in trouble.

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Threads like this one make me wish I had studied more psychology in school. Holy moly.

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Perception is a funny thing.  If you could reach out and plop down Chicago's or Pittsburgh's or any number of other stadiums in Duval County, it would always be full and no one would say a thing about ticket sales.  But because the stadium is nearly 15K larger than those stadiums it's a big deal.  Could Chicago and Pitt put 77 K in the seats game after game, year after year?  Maybe but remember, there's a reason they put a lot fewer seats when they built new stadiums.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

Perception is a funny thing.  If you could reach out and plop down Chicago's or Pittsburgh's or any number of other stadiums in Duval County, it would always be full and no one would say a thing about ticket sales.  But because the stadium is nearly 15K larger than those stadiums it's a big deal.  Could Chicago and Pitt put 77 K in the seats game after game, year after year?  Maybe but remember, there's a reason they put a lot fewer seats when they built new stadiums.

 

So true my friend 

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No Ryan, we need a QB to win. We sell tickets just fine.

This is how I feel. A Good QB will help sales but not how most idiots who don't no crap bout the jags think. Heck our QBs the past 3yrs was a mix between Gabbert and Henne. We still came out to games.

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Perception is a funny thing. If you could reach out and plop down Chicago's or Pittsburgh's or any number of other stadiums in Duval County, it would always be full and no one would say a thing about ticket sales. But because the stadium is nearly 15K larger than those stadiums it's a big deal. Could Chicago and Pitt put 77 K in the seats game after game, year after year? Maybe but remember, there's a reason they put a lot fewer seats when they built new stadiums.

Preach my friend

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Let it go?  Absolutely not!  We must protect this house!  We must be angry and offended!  Harrumph!

Seriously#  Who cares?  If you're going to be offended by something some ignorant idiot says, you need a new hobby#

 

[media='420x315']http://youtu.be/JN99jshaQbY[/media]

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Because Jaguars is our mantra 

He stated a valid point. We need a QB. We were 28th in attendance last year. No need to get bent out of shape about those statements. It's not like he walked into your living room, punched your dad in the face, and then kissed your mom in front of you. So relax. That's just the reality of it. In fairness, I will say this. I am happy to see that we have passionate fans about this franchise. Whether we have different opinions or view points in regards to who and how we should go about having thicker skin doesn't matter to me that much.

 

At the end of the day, if you're taking time out to post on a football forum about your favorite team, odds are, you're a much more devoted fan than the common folks here in town that go to these games from time-to-time instead of on a routine basis each year. So I can respect that. But the only way to shut up these shallow comments and remarks from the outside media is simply by winning some football games. That's about it. Win some games, build some confidence, and you'll start to see a bigger turnout. It's not hard to figure out....

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."