Exactly just because YOU dont like it, it will always be a bad pick. Smh

I think the argument is more that the position of the selection is what makes the pick poop.

The argument "If he turns out to be Kamara, it's a good pick" is flawed because Kamara wasn't taken anywhere near the first round. If he turns out to be Kamara, we spent a first rounder on fourth-round talent!
It's the same argument why Fournette at four was a bad pick, why Bryan Anger in the third was a bad pick, and so many other examples argued here over the years. What if JRob was our Kamara? Did the Saints bother wasting another pick on an RB just because their current RB wasn't a first rounder? Of course not.

We had so many other holes to fill that throwing a premium pick at a role player wasn't necessary. The guy is going to HAVE to be on the level of the league's elite RB to make it seem worth the value we gave up to get him.

While I agree that taking a running back in the first round is typically foolish, I don’t know where to start with this flawed logic. Kamara is not a fourth round talent. In fact, he is someone who outperformed his draft position greatly.

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Exactly just because YOU dont like it, it will always be a bad pick. Smh

I think the argument is more that the position of the selection is what makes the pick poop.

The argument "If he turns out to be Kamara, it's a good pick" is flawed because Kamara wasn't taken anywhere near the first round. If he turns out to be Kamara, we spent a first rounder on fourth-round talent!
It's the same argument why Fournette at four was a bad pick, why Bryan Anger in the third was a bad pick, and so many other examples argued here over the years. What if JRob was our Kamara? Did the Saints bother wasting another pick on an RB just because their current RB wasn't a first rounder? Of course not.

We had so many other holes to fill that throwing a premium pick at a role player wasn't necessary. The guy is going to HAVE to be on the level of the league's elite RB to make it seem worth the value we gave up to get him.

Thats a horrible take, Kamara is no 4th round talent, have you ever seen him play?.  That's like saying Brady is a 6th round talent because he was taken in the 6th even though Kamara was taken in the 3rd

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I think the argument is more that the position of the selection is what makes the pick poop.

The argument "If he turns out to be Kamara, it's a good pick" is flawed because Kamara wasn't taken anywhere near the first round. If he turns out to be Kamara, we spent a first rounder on fourth-round talent!
It's the same argument why Fournette at four was a bad pick, why Bryan Anger in the third was a bad pick, and so many other examples argued here over the years. What if JRob was our Kamara? Did the Saints bother wasting another pick on an RB just because their current RB wasn't a first rounder? Of course not.

We had so many other holes to fill that throwing a premium pick at a role player wasn't necessary. The guy is going to HAVE to be on the level of the league's elite RB to make it seem worth the value we gave up to get him.

While I agree that taking a running back in the first round is typically foolish, I don’t know where to start with this flawed logic. Kamara is not a fourth round talent. In fact, he is someone who outperformed his draft position greatly.

So did JRob, but we sought to replace him almost immediately.

The logic is that if Etienne ends up the next Michael Carter or Kenneth Gainwell or Rhamondre Stevenson, you spent a first rounder on fourth-round talent. Kamara is the exception to the rule. How many RB taken in the 20's outperform Taylor, Henry, Cook, or other guys taken in the 40s? Now if you spent a fourth rounder and they play at the same level as Taylor, or Cook, or even Kamara, you've won the value sweepstakes. If you spent a 25 on what other teams are spending a 45, a 70 or 100 on, you've tossed a bunch of value in the terlet.

Like I said, the team will be pressed to get years of production from Etienne solely due to where he was picked (and that's before he was hurt) to offset the lost value.

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While I agree that taking a running back in the first round is typically foolish, I don’t know where to start with this flawed logic. Kamara is not a fourth round talent. In fact, he is someone who outperformed his draft position greatly.

So did JRob, but we sought to replace him almost immediately.

The logic is that if Etienne ends up the next Michael Carter or Kenneth Gainwell or Rhamondre Stevenson, you spent a first rounder on fourth-round talent. Kamara is the exception to the rule. How many RB taken in the 20's outperform Taylor, Henry, Cook, or other guys taken in the 40s? Now if you spent a fourth rounder and they play at the same level as Taylor, or Cook, or even Kamara, you've won the value sweepstakes. If you spent a 25 on what other teams are spending a 45, a 70 or 100 on, you've tossed a bunch of value in the terlet.

Like I said, the team will be pressed to get years of production from Etienne solely due to where he was picked (and that's before he was hurt) to offset the lost value.

Henry, Cook, and Taylor outperformed their drafted positions  as well.  They are 1st round talents that if there were a re draft they would be taken in the 1st

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I didn't see this mentioned and I think it merits discussing. Much has been made out of Trevor Lawrence's lack of TD passes, but I saw Laquon Treadwell drop a pass in the endzone that hit him in the numbers, would've been a massive deep strike that Lawrence put on the money, but the WR can't make the play. There were several plays in the redzone that I put at the feet of the skill players. I'm not at all concerned about Trevor's lack of TD passes or his TD:INT ratio.

I think we need to throw a few midround picks at WR & TE .... anyone who can CATCH!! but use the early picks to protect Trevor.

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Championship Formula:

1) Draft Trevor Lawrence!
2) Play good physical Defense! 
3) Keep 91% of the roster healthy!
4) ???
5) Blank #2
6) CHAMPIONSHIP!!!

I didn't see this mentioned and I think it merits discussing. Much has been made out of Trevor Lawrence's lack of TD passes, but I saw Laquon Treadwell drop a pass in the endzone that hit him in the numbers, would've been a massive deep strike that Lawrence put on the money, but the WR can't make the play. There were several plays in the redzone that I put at the feet of the skill players. I'm not at all concerned about Trevor's lack of TD passes or his TD:INT ratio.

I think we need to throw a few midround picks at WR & TE .... anyone who can CATCH!! but use the early picks to protect Trevor.

They showed a slo-mo closeup of Trevor’s face as he watched the ball in flight to Treadwell. I was expecting to see a grimace and his mouth forming a cuss word when the ball was dropped. Nothing. He looked briefly down in disappointment then started running forward, clapping his hands and giving words of encouragement. The guy is a leader through and through. He deserves so much better than this.

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I didn't see this mentioned and I think it merits discussing. Much has been made out of Trevor Lawrence's lack of TD passes, but I saw Laquon Treadwell drop a pass in the endzone that hit him in the numbers, would've been a massive deep strike that Lawrence put on the money, but the WR can't make the play. There were several plays in the redzone that I put at the feet of the skill players. I'm not at all concerned about Trevor's lack of TD passes or his TD:INT ratio.

I think we need to throw a few midround picks at WR & TE .... anyone who can CATCH!! but use the early picks to protect Trevor.

It's being covered over in the giant Trevor Sucks! thread. You're absolutely right, he makes plays and gets let down by his receivers. Not that he's not making mistakes too, but 32 drops on the year says it ain't all him.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Leon Searcy on the radio saying this team is too comfortable with losing and act as if they expect it.

This team needs a huge culture change.

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Leon Searcy on the radio saying this team is too comfortable with losing and act as if they expect it.

This team needs a huge culture change.

Culture change gets you Urbz, Gus Bus, and those types. Just need a football type that can work with TLaw. The front office needs to select players that fit what the coach wants to do and stop getting cute with stupid picks.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

Leon Searcy on the radio saying this team is too comfortable with losing and act as if they expect it.

This team needs a huge culture change.

Culture change gets you Urbz, Gus Bus, and those types. Just need a football type that can work with TLaw. The front office needs to select players that fit what the coach wants to do and stop getting cute with stupid picks.

Can’t argue with that.

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Culture change gets you Urbz, Gus Bus, and those types. Just need a football type that can work with TLaw. The front office needs to select players that fit what the coach wants to do and stop getting cute with stupid picks.

Can’t argue with that.

I second that.  I tuned in for the last quarter so my opinions are from that stand point.  I was amazed at how the defensive line and backups for the Jets were able to do so well in critical times.  Props to the defense for keeping us in the game as much as they could. The last drive said it all to me. Our rookie tried to put the team on his shoulders and almost pulled it off. It was a great individual effort. What would have happened if on the last play we didn't get cute with the play call or have a receiver actually get some separation?

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Can’t argue with that.

I second that.  I tuned in for the last quarter so my opinions are from that stand point.  I was amazed at how the defensive line and backups for the Jets were able to do so well in critical times.  Props to the defense for keeping us in the game as much as they could. The last drive said it all to me. Our rookie tried to put the team on his shoulders and almost pulled it off. It was a great individual effort. What would have happened if on the last play we didn't get cute with the play call or have a receiver actually get some separation?

Or the NFL reviews Marvin's catch and sees it was a touchdown...

Anyway I agree, culture isn't a thing, winning is. When a team is winning then whatever they're doing is "good culture."

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Leon Searcy on the radio saying this team is too comfortable with losing and act as if they expect it.

This team needs a huge culture change.

I don't know that I'd go that far. Back in the Bortles days, I'd say yes. The team seemed to be spectating, waiting to see what exactly was going to go wrong rather than trying to make a play.

We were two yards away from a game-winning play in the final seconds, on a team that is missing 4 of its top offensive threats (JRob, Agnew, Chark, Shenault). There was no give-up in the team; we simply lack talent sufficient to tilt the field in our direction.

I'll grant that losing is a habit, and takes effort to break, but this team didn't quit.

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Leon Searcy on the radio saying this team is too comfortable with losing and act as if they expect it.

This team needs a huge culture change.

I don't know that I'd go that far. Back in the Bortles days, I'd say yes. The team seemed to be spectating, waiting to see what exactly was going to go wrong rather than trying to make a play.

We were two yards away from a game-winning play in the final seconds, on a team that is missing 4 of its top offensive threats (JRob, Agnew, Chark, Shenault). There was no give-up in the team; we simply lack talent sufficient to tilt the field in our direction.

I'll grant that losing is a habit, and takes effort to break, but this team didn't quit.

Exactly, that is the point.  We ALMOST beat a team that was down 16 players and their coach.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

The Miami win was unremarkable and demonstrated a lack of capability on the opposing team more than an output of effort on this team. The Buffalo win was a team overlooking the Jaguars and a once a season performance by the defense. This team has done nothing all year.

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The Khan Years

Patience, Persistence, and Piss Poor General Managers.

I think we need to throw a few midround picks at WR & TE .... anyone who can CATCH!! but use the early picks to protect Trevor.

Pass protection is so hard to judge..... just by eye test I dont think the Jaguars are bad at pass pros. I've always felt that the protection is also a QBs job to make it work. I remember this one game this year where Aaron Rodgers did not play and Love got the gig that game, that pass pro that game kept leaking every drop back Love took.

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I think we need to throw a few midround picks at WR & TE .... anyone who can CATCH!! but use the early picks to protect Trevor.

Pass protection is so hard to judge..... just by eye test I dont think the Jaguars are bad at pass pros. I've always felt that the protection is also a QBs job to make it work. I remember this one game this year where Aaron Rodgers did not play and Love got the gig that game, that pass pro that game kept leaking every drop back Love took.

Don't do eye tests. Find the stats. 

I'm sure everyone who thinks every stat that show the wrong thing is a joke will be angry again, but ESPN says we're 20th in pass pro. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3217...e-rankings

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Pass protection is so hard to judge..... just by eye test I dont think the Jaguars are bad at pass pros. I've always felt that the protection is also a QBs job to make it work. I remember this one game this year where Aaron Rodgers did not play and Love got the gig that game, that pass pro that game kept leaking every drop back Love took.

Don't do eye tests. Find the stats. 

I'm sure everyone who thinks every stat that show the wrong thing is a joke will be angry again, but ESPN says we're 20th in pass pro. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/3217...e-rankings

Stats arent know it all either....stats will never tell a whole story and will always be a step behind.

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Of course not but they are neutral and compiled by non-fans. As of today it's obvious that fandom is a problem when judging Lawrence(and it goes both ways).

EDIT: Listened to Chris Simms who doubled down on the "Zach Wilson is better" after watching the game.

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It's so.weird because I thought this years QB draft was pretty strong.

I've always been a fan of Wilson & Lawrence and really thought they'd come out and look pretty good but I did not expect this shitshow from both of them...

Judging solely just by this year draft class, it seems as if Mac Jones & Jalen Hurts are the better QBs out the whole bunch...

Still too early to predict but this years draft class doesnt really excite me for the future.

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