I think that the best chance in trading up from #33 to help this team would be to get Jameison Williams. That s IF we don't get a true #1 in FA and I don't mean Chark.  giving up 33, 70 and 142 is  5 points higher than Pitt at #20. Or instead of 142 give up 168 and 169. That still is more than Pitt at 20. That way we still have 65 and 142. I believe that the ACL recovery is far shorter than it once was. I truly believe Williams could be a force before October.

I would not want to trade away both 3rd round picks.

We have at least three needs along the OL and at TE.

The 3rd round is a great place to find interior OL and TE.


Taking away both 3rd round picks would not be good.

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Personally, I also wouldn't mind getting Olave or Dotson either. Any of those 3 would work. My biggest issue would be at #33, if it came down to TE Tre McBride or WR David Bell. I like both guys a lot and I go back and forth on who I would take, but I think I'm leaning slightly to McBride. He is almost like having another WR our there and the WR position is so deep in this draft, I believe we can find good options in round 3-5. TE is deep, but not as deep as WR.

Let's complicate things a little.

Assume we sign Ertz as a free agent and somehow acquire Amari Cooper, such that WR and TEs are not as dire needs as they are today.

Both 3rd round picks?  I only suggested one, the pick we got from Carolina. Unless you mean either 3rd round pick. That makes more sense. I didn't particularly like the previous suggestion of the 4th round pick in the bundle because I feel we can get a TE or IOL there. It is why I suggested the two mid 6th round picks. And OLine is onto something with Wilson or Olave for the pick if we do trade up

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I would not want to trade away both 3rd round picks.

We have at least three needs along the OL and at TE.

The 3rd round is a great place to find interior OL and TE.


Taking away both 3rd round picks would not be good.

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Let's complicate things a little.

Assume we sign Ertz as a free agent and somehow acquire Amari Cooper, such that WR and TEs are not as dire needs as they are today.

Both 3rd round picks?  I only suggested one, the pick we got from Carolina. Unless you mean either 3rd round pick. That makes more sense. I didn't particularly like the previous suggestion of the 4th round pick in the bundle because I feel we can get a TE or IOL there. It is why I suggested the two mid 6th round picks. And OLine is onto something with Wilson or Olave for the pick if we do trade up

I misread your post.

Easy for me to do these days.

Apologies.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Both 3rd round picks?  I only suggested one, the pick we got from Carolina. Unless you mean either 3rd round pick. That makes more sense. I didn't particularly like the previous suggestion of the 4th round pick in the bundle because I feel we can get a TE or IOL there. It is why I suggested the two mid 6th round picks. And OLine is onto something with Wilson or Olave for the pick if we do trade up

I misread your post.

Easy for me to do these days.

Apologies.

Hahaha! Welcome to MY world brother. It's all good. But this does pose a conundrum. Trade up for one player and lose three additional picks or stand pat and hopefully build up the overall roster.  A second third rounder can possibly be an additional starter by midseason. That logic says 4 potential starters through pick 70. That is a lot of rookies on the field. Add that to 4 2nd year players on the field as starters (if Etienne beats out Robinson) and that is a big chunk of your top 22. This is quite possible for  us however. That also means an influx of very good veterans via FA is vital.

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I honestly like the idea of taking Hutch with pick 1 and trading up for Travon Walker. Go all out on offense in FA. With the additions of Hutch and Walker we could have one of the best pass rushing defense in the eague

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I honestly like the idea of taking Hutch with pick 1 and trading up for Trevon Walker.  Go all out on offense in FA. With the additions of Hutch and Walker we could have one of the best pass rushing defense in the eague

On paper it's not a bad idea. To have some type of balanced approach. I think a lot of us always want a healthy mix and balance of both but sometimes what happens in March with the other 31 teams is what's going to dictate and drive your needs, values and draft board. 

I think that's what's really scared the majority of this fanbase with Baalke in the building. You're forced into trusting and believing that he's already done his homework and rated the current values of each position in free agency and stacked it up with each position in the draft value wise. 

If "X" is signed in FA then "Y" becomes less valuable to me, therefore "Z" becomes more valuable at this position. 

I am on the fence with Baalke. Been mulling over the idea of him staying here. Bothers me a little bit because I know it goes against the majority around here. However. I get it. But, Lawrence was a no brainer selection. We don't know what would have happened with Etienne. Campbell progressed very well and Little ultimately ended up showing a lot of promise in limited action. Cisco also showed some ability. 

I mean, on paper? He managed to draft probably five starters there. So, hopefully that's a sign of him turning the corner and learning from his mistakes in San Francisco. Again, though, the concern is probably going to fall back on what he does or doesn't do in Free Agency and also his ability to keep the waiver wire churning for quality options during the regular season. 

Khan got one half of the equation right with Pederson. I just hope we're not entering this regular season with the fans at home chanting "E.V.P, E.V.P, E.V.P" if they clearly have a lack of talent on the football field thanks to, yet again, a lack luster effort in free agency under Baalke's leadership.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

I honestly like the idea of taking Hutch with pick 1 and trading up for Trevon Walker.  Go all out on offense in FA. With the additions of Hutch and Walker we could have one of the best pass rushing defense in the eague

On paper it's not a bad idea. To have some type of balanced approach. I think a lot of us always want a healthy mix and balance of both but sometimes what happens in March with the other 31 teams is what's going to dictate and drive your needs, values and draft board. 

I think that's what's really scared the majority of this fanbase with Baalke in the building. You're forced into trusting and believing that he's already done his homework and rated the current values of each position in free agency and stacked it up with each position in the draft value wise. 

If "X" is signed in FA then "Y" becomes less valuable to me, therefore "Z" becomes more valuable at this position. 

I am on the fence with Baalke. Been mulling over the idea of him staying here. Bothers me a little bit because I know it goes against the majority around here. However. I get it. But, Lawrence was a no brainer selection. We don't know what would have happened with Etienne. Campbell progressed very well and Little ultimately ended up showing a lot of promise in limited action. Cisco also showed some ability. 

I mean, on paper? He managed to draft probably five starters there. So, hopefully that's a sign of him turning the corner and learning from his mistakes in San Francisco. Again, though, the concern is probably going to fall back on what he does or doesn't do in Free Agency and also his ability to keep the waiver wire churning for quality options during the regular season. 

Khan got one half of the equation right with Pederson. I just hope we're not entering this regular season with the fans at home chanting "E.V.P, E.V.P, E.V.P" if they clearly have a lack of talent on the football field thanks to, yet again, a lack luster effort in free agency under Baalke's leadership.

Agreed, what we do in FA will be telling.  People wanted all these high priced FA last year.  Teams don't go all out in FA in the first year of a rebuild.  I like the Jones, Griffin, and Agnew signings and the trade for Arnold.  Let's see what they can do this year

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Please stop playing revisionist history with last years FA. We had the most cap room in the league. We had 6 guys earmarked as priority FAs. We struck out on all 6, and then paid tier 3/4 FAs as tier 2 guys and none of them are guys who will be contributors on a contending team. It was a disaster because Baalke is a penny pincher for one, and is hated league wide for two.

There have been rumors that Shad has demanded that Baalke spend more this year so maybe Baalke's frugality won't be as big of an issue this year, but he is still the most hated man in the league and the NFLPA has singled us out as toxic for two regimes in a row (and we kept the GM who has still not been neutered).

I do not see us attracting any of the major impact FA this year.

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Please stop playing revisionist history with last years FA. We had the most cap room in the league. We had 6 guys earmarked as priority FAs. We struck out on all 6, and then paid tier 3/4 FAs as tier 2 guys and none of them are guys who will be contributors on a contending team. It was a disaster because Baalke is a penny pincher for one, and is hated league wide for two.

There have been rumors that Shad has demanded that Baalke spend more this year so maybe Baalke's frugality won't be as big of an issue this year, but he is still the most hated man in the league and the NFLPA has singled us out as toxic for two regimes in a row (and we kept the GM who has still not been neutered).

I do not see us attracting any of the major impact FA this year.

Agreed. Going to be interesting here shortly. Hopefully Pederson and his coaching staff are alluring enough to work with to supersede any issues players may have with Baalke.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Please stop playing revisionist history with last years FA. We had the most cap room in the league. We had 6 guys earmarked as priority FAs. We struck out on all 6, and then paid tier 3/4 FAs as tier 2 guys and none of them are guys who will be contributors on a contending team. It was a disaster because Baalke is a penny pincher for one, and is hated league wide for two.

There have been rumors that Shad has demanded that Baalke spend more this year so maybe Baalke's frugality won't be as big of an issue this year, but he is still the most hated man in the league and the NFLPA has singled us out as toxic for two regimes in a row (and we kept the GM who has still not been neutered).

I do not see us attracting any of the major impact FA this year.

Agreed. Going to be interesting here shortly. Hopefully Pederson and his coaching staff are alluring enough to work with to supersede any issues players may have with Baalke.

The issue is that a lot of teams have money. If you’re Brandon Scherff, are you really going to choose the Jags over a team like the Bengals or Chargers?

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When players are choosing which team they want to go to, I don't think they will make there decision on which GM they want to play for. It will be which team will pay the most, which coach he will like to play for, how the future looks, and the city. No state tax will help as well

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The issue is that a lot of teams have money.

Yep, I've said it a ton but people have really underestimated how much the cap went up post covid season. It's not just us and a few other dregs with multiple tens of millions to splash around. Everyone except for the Saints and Packers have enough money to throw a top contract at anyone.

Why in the world is a team going to choose the back to back worst team in the league over any number of contenders? Especially when the NFLPA is going to actively be telling those players that Jacksonville is toxic, and every players agent is going to be telling them that Baalke is toxic.

We're going to be stuck giving tier 3/4 FAs tier 2 money again.

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When players are choosing which team they want to go to, I don't think they will make there decision on which  GM they want to play for.  It will be which team will pay the most, which coach he will like to play for, how the future looks, and the city.  No state tax will help as well

Outside of no state tax, why would any top free agent choose Jacksonville? Serious question.

What does Jacksonville have that other teams don’t? And you can’t say money because a lot of teams have that.

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When players are choosing which team they want to go to, I don't think they will make there decision on which  GM they want to play for.  It will be which team will pay the most, which coach he will like to play for, how the future looks, and the city.  No state tax will help as well

Outside of no state tax, why would any top free agent choose Jacksonville? Serious question.

What does Jacksonville have that other teams don’t? And you can’t say money because a lot of teams have that.

I depends on what the player is looking for. If they're looking to maximize their money, Jacksonville is a good place. We also have warm weather and beaches. All three of those are better than what Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Green Bay, or Kansas City have to offer.
 
Now, if they're looking to play on a competitive team with playoff potential, accentuate the taxes, weather and beaches. Hopefully we will have more to offer soon.

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Outside of no state tax, why would any top free agent choose Jacksonville? Serious question.

What does Jacksonville have that other teams don’t? And you can’t say money because a lot of teams have that.

I depends on what the player is looking for. If they're looking to maximize their money, Jacksonville is a good place. We also have warm weather and beaches. All three of those are better than what Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Green Bay, or Kansas City have to offer.
 
Now, if they're looking to play on a competitive team with playoff potential, accentuate the taxes, weather and beaches. Hopefully we will have more to offer soon.

All those things you mentioned have rarely worked in Jacksonvilles favor in the past.

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Please stop playing revisionist history with last years FA. We had the most cap room in the league. We had 6 guys earmarked as priority FAs. We struck out on all 6, and then paid tier 3/4 FAs as tier 2 guys and none of them are guys who will be contributors on a contending team. It was a disaster because Baalke is a penny pincher for one, and is hated league wide for two.

There have been rumors that Shad has demanded that Baalke spend more this year so maybe Baalke's frugality won't be as big of an issue this year, but he is still the most hated man in the league and the NFLPA has singled us out as toxic for two regimes in a row (and we kept the GM who has still not been neutered).

I do not see us attracting any of the major impact FA this year.

This is the 100% truth. Preach on.......

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When players are choosing which team they want to go to, I don't think they will make there decision on which  GM they want to play for.  It will be which team will pay the most, which coach he will like to play for, how the future looks, and the city.  No state tax will help as well

Outside of no state tax, why would any top free agent choose Jacksonville? Serious question.

What does Jacksonville have that other teams don’t? And you can’t say money because a lot of teams have that.

1.  Money, we could put bid other teams
2.  Coaching, I think a lot of teams would like to play for a SB winning coach.  I think we will be better to attract a lot of a lot of offensive players with Doug here and his offense.  
3.  Trevor Lawrence, I think a lot of players would love to play with an up and coming star like Trev.  
4.  If you're and offensive lineman, Travis Etienne and James Robinson.  Most lineman love to run the football and we have 2 very good backs along with Trev
5.  The future, with the young QB, all the picks, money, and SB winning coach this would be a prime spot to make a name for some of these guys if you can help put Jax back in the map

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I depends on what the player is looking for. If they're looking to maximize their money, Jacksonville is a good place. We also have warm weather and beaches. All three of those are better than what Buffalo, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Green Bay, or Kansas City have to offer.
 
Now, if they're looking to play on a competitive team with playoff potential, accentuate the taxes, weather and beaches. Hopefully we will have more to offer soon.

All those things you mentioned have rarely worked in Jacksonvilles favor in the past.

This year is going to have a big influence on our ability to attract free agents going forward. If the new staff is effective and Lawrence begins to consistently display his potential, taxes and beaches will be the bonus and not the selling points.

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All those things you mentioned have rarely worked in Jacksonvilles favor in the past.

This year is going to have a big influence on our ability to attract free agents going forward. If the new staff is effective and Lawrence begins to consistently display his potential, taxes and beaches will be the bonus and not the selling points.

This sentiment that 'nobody wants to play for Jacksonville' is ridiculous.  If we outbid another team, high-priced free agents will play here.

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This year is going to have a big influence on our ability to attract free agents going forward. If the new staff is effective and Lawrence begins to consistently display his potential, taxes and beaches will be the bonus and not the selling points.

This sentiment that 'nobody wants to play for Jacksonville' is ridiculous.  If we outbid another team, high-priced free agents will play here.

I wouldn’t say nobody, but are there FAs who have steered clear of Jacksonville even if we’ve bid the highest? I honestly don’t know, but is money always the deciding factor? Especially with a team which has chronic organizational problems with no hope in sight.

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This year is going to have a big influence on our ability to attract free agents going forward. If the new staff is effective and Lawrence begins to consistently display his potential, taxes and beaches will be the bonus and not the selling points.

This sentiment that 'nobody wants to play for Jacksonville' is ridiculous.  If we outbid another team, high-priced free agents will play here.

But, for like the six thousandth time, we are not competing with the other crappy teams that have a lot of cap space this year. The salary cap went up an enormous amount because the year before was flat after the covid season. We are now competing with basically every team except maybe the Saints and Packers (but even they can create a lot of cap if they really want to).

It's no longer do I want to go to this sucky team that has bad weather and high taxes vs Jacksonville's sucky team that has beaches and no state tax. They simply aren't going to choose us over any number of contenders that can also be the high bidder and isn't being led by the most hated man in the league and hasn't had two regimes in a row saying we are toxic by the NFLPA.

Whatever, it's not worth rehashing every time someone ignores these facts. We'll see if I'm right in less than a month. I think everyone is going to be sorely disappointed.

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