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The Case For Evan Neal at 1

#1

This is the time of year where draftniks start to formulate their opinions on the ddraft overall and what their particular teams should do in the draft.  There are three guys generally speculated to be the #1 overall pick.  Of those three, it seems Evan Neal is not the most popular choice among many draftniks who are Jaguars fans.  However, contrary to popular belief, Evan Neal ‘s athletic attributes, positional value, versatility, and team need makes him the best choice for the Jaguars if the team is forced to stay at #1.

There is certainly an argument to be made that Neal is the BAP at that spot in the draft.  Based upon the mocks by the national draft experts, Neal is almost universally viewed as a top 3 player.  With his massive size at 6-7. 350 lbs and his considerable athletic ability, it makes him an imposing specimen.   He was a 5 star recruit out of high school, so he has been identified as a pro prospect for years.  He was a 3 year starter At Alabama, playing against top notch pass rushers, giving up only one sack this year.  He received pro level coaching from Doug marrone.  Say what you will about Marrone as a head coach, he is known for getting production out of the OL.  In large part due to Marrone's coaching, one of Neal's strengths is his technique.  Technique is a huge part of what makes for the best tackles.  Anthony Munoz had great technique, as did Boselli. Neal's technique will help his transition into the NFL.   This combination of warrant consideration for him at the top spot.

From a need basis, there is plenty to like about Beal being the #1 overall pick.  As of this writing, the Jaguars have three (3) starters from last year who are free agents:  Cam robinson, Andrew Norwell, and AJ Cann.  Furthermore, RT represents a huge hole, as Taylor has been awful.  His propensity to give up sacks and commit penalties kept the Jaguars and TL in far too many awful down and distance situations which bogged down drives.   Some will argue T is less of a need than people think because Cam Robinson only gave up one sack and Walker Little showed promise at LT at the end of the year.  However, Robinson has been viewed by most as a liability at LT, and most thought it was a mistake tp slap a franchise tag on him last year.Walker Littls started all of three gmes after being sidelined since 2019 in college due to a knee injury and Covid.  He is far from a proven commodity.  Most people argued OL was definitely the area of biggest need last year.  Walker Little’s 3 games as a starter, does not equal the team has upgraded OL.  Drafting Neal would increase comnpetition on the OL and be a bit of a safeguard against possible failure by Little.  Furthermore, dating back to 2015, of the team’s NINE (9) first round picks in that span, SIX (6) f them have been spent on the defense.  Of the three offensive players referenced, two of those picks were RBs-Fournette (no longer on the team) and Etienne (missed his entire rookie season with a Lisfranc injury).  The 3rd was Trevor Lawrence.  Besides the pending free agents along the OL, there is huge need at the skill positions.  Chark, the only one of the receivers who can get any kind of vertical separation, is a free agent.  Meanwhile, the defense not only had the benefit of all of those high picks, the bulk of the free agency money went to the defense last year.  Trevor Lawrence needs help,  refusing to prioritize getting him surrounding help especially when the draft value is there is gross negligence.
 
Furthermore, Neal’s versatility would have a tremendous positive impact on OL depth.  Injuries to the OL can be one of the biggest obstacles to team success.  If you recall, one of the main reasons the 2018 Jaguars fell off so dramatically from the 2017 performance was the injuries to the offensive line, starting with the loss of LT Cam Robinson. Conversely,it’s proven that sufficient quality depth along the OL can prove to mitigate the negative effects of injuries, even if it wouldn’t completely prevent the injuries from happening.  Jaguars fans who were around the first five years can remember one of the big advantages we enjoyed was having a guy in Ben Coleman who could step in and play LT at a reasonably high level when Boselli went out with injury.  Indeed, at various points, Coleman had success against guys like Derr8ick Thomas, Neil Smith and Jevon Kearse enabled the Jaguars to win games against quality opponents because they were able to provide adequate protection for Brunell in Boselli’s absence.  To cite a more contemporary example, the 2017-2018 Philadelphia Eagles, coached by Doug Pederson,, won the Super Bowl despite being down to their 3rd string LT.   With Neal’s proven versatility (having played 3 positions along the OL in college), the Jaguars could begin to replicate the deoth dynamics cited above.  If you drafted Neal, minimally, you’d have two guys who could put in quality snaps in at LT with he and Little-replicating the dynamic with Boselli and Coleman.  If you kept Robinson, Taylor, Little and still drafted Neal, the team would be in a position where no fewer then three players could presumably give you quality snaps at LT (Neal, Robinson and Little) and three guys who could play RT in a pinch (Neal, Little, and Taylor), which would enable the Jaguars to keep performing at a reasonably high level like that Eagles’ team Pederson coached to a title.   Neither Hutchinson nor Thibideaux can provide that sort of versatility.

Some would argue that taking Neal would be a mistake, especially if he couldn’t immediately play LT, or that selecting Neal would serve to waste Walker Little’s development at LT.  I submit neither proposition would  be the case.  First off, Jon Ogden played G his first year and he was the 4th overall pick in 1996.  Nobody contends Ogden was not worth the selection that year because he started out as a G, and there isn’t too much difference between the #1 overall pick and the $4 overall pick, especially in a draft class without a top tier QB.  Furthermore, I submit that sometimes, the standard of drafting shouldn’t necessarily be BAP, but instead BAP for the team.  The 2013 draft wasn’t a particularly strong draft, especially at the very top.  But two teams in Peserson’s career benefitted greatly from it in Kansas City and Philadelphia.  KC picked LT Eric Fisher #1 overall.  While Fisher was no Boselli, he was the best player  that draft for the Chiefs.  He wound up solidifying LT for the Chiefs for years, and manned that most important spot for the Chiefs when they won the Super Bowl about three years ago, and his absence was critical to the Super Bowl loss the following year to Tampa.  In Philly, the Eagles drafted Lane Johnson out of Oklahoma.  While some thought he had the capability of playing LT, he has played exclusively RT for the Eagles, and was a critical part of the OL that helped the Eagles win the Super Bowl under Pederson.  You don’t necessarily have to be all world to be the # 1 pick in the draft, just the best player for the team that’s picking in that spot.  As for Little, I would envision Little and Neal competing for OL position if Neal were drafted.  I submit the competition would make both players better no matter which side of the line they played.


I believe Neal would provide a tremendous upgrade to the OL no matter whic side of the OL he played on and would provide a lot of support to Trevor Lawrence.  He would fit a need and improve depth tremendously with his versatility  He certainly warrants consideration at #1.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#2

Normally, I agree with the vast majority of your takes, but I couldn't disagree with you more on this topic. I've seen at least 75% of the Crimson Tide's games last season and I was very underwhelmed by what I saw in Evan Neal. He got off balance too much and was beaten way too many times last season. Luckily for him, he had the best and most pro ready QB in the NCAA. Bryce Young has great pocket awareness and very good field vision he knew when to get rid of the ball to avoid sacks and pressures. If not for him, I truly believe we would not be talking about Neal as a potential #1 pick or possibly even a first rounder. IMO, he's just a slightly above average, RT only prospect. With that said, let's look at another angle as well.

Alabama has several OT's that are currently playing in the NFL. None are stars and many just aren't good. James Carpenter was Alabama's LT and went onto be drafted #25 overall by Seattle in 2011. He was very underwhelming and the Seahawks declined his 5th year option. Since then, he has moved from team to team after being pushed inside to OG. We all know what we have in Cam Robinson. He has been underwhelming, but he has finally gotten to a point where he is now serviceable, after a very long and bumpy road. Jonah Williams was LT for the Crimson Tide and was drafted #11 overall by the Bengals in 2019. He has been underwhelming as well. Living here in Cincinnati, I can tell you that all the sports talk radio since the Superbowl has been focused on finding a new LT and moving Williams either to RT or possibly inside to OG. Fans know that while he is Cincinnati's best O-Lineman, he certainly isn't cut out to be an NFL LT. Jedrick Wills was Alabama's star RT and was so highly regarded that the Cleveland Browns drafted him #10 overall to be their starting LT. He has been racked with penalty issues and injuries since coming into the league. Finally, we get our latest example, Alex Leatherwood. He played LT at Alabama while Evan Neal was relegated to RT. Leatherwood was drafted #17 overall by the Raiders in the last draft. He has been an unmitigated disaster accounting for 14 penalties and 8 sacks in his lone NFL season. He's so bad they had to move him inside to OG midway through the season, where he wasn't much better. Out of all of the Alabama OT's on this list, Cam Robinson may currently be the best one and it has taken him a long time to get to this point. Why gamble on another Alabama OT when history has told us over and over that these guys don't work out in the NFL?

We simply need to tag Cam Robinson for another season. Have him and Little compete for the starting LT position with the loser moving to RT and our OT spots are set for 2022. We look for an OT prospect in the mid rounds to serve as the Swing Tackle and possibly the RT of the future. That way we get a premier pass rusher with the #1 overall pick, the OT positions are secure and we can focus on the interior O-Line positions in free agency and the draft. IMO, this is a no-brainer. This is just not a good draft for OT's. No one OT sticks out as a premier player. We've held onto Cam Robinson this long and he's finally to a point where he can be trusted. Why ditch him for another rookie in a poor OT draft class? It just doesn't make sense.
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#3

(02-20-2022, 01:08 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Normally, I agree with the vast majority of your takes, but I couldn't disagree with you more on this topic. I've seen at least 75% of the Crimson Tide's games last season and I was very underwhelmed by what I saw in Evan Neal. He got off balance too much and was beaten way too many times last season. Luckily for him, he had the best and most pro ready QB in the NCAA. Bryce Young has great pocket awareness and very good field vision he knew when to get rid of the ball to avoid sacks and pressures. If not for him, I truly believe we would not be talking about Neal as a potential #1 pick or possibly even a first rounder. IMO, he's just a slightly above average, RT only prospect. With that said, let's look at another angle as well.

Alabama has several OT's that are currently playing in the NFL. None are stars and many just aren't good. James Carpenter was Alabama's LT and went onto be drafted #25 overall by Seattle in 2011. He was very underwhelming and the Seahawks declined his 5th year option. Since then, he has moved from team to team after being pushed inside to OG. We all know what we have in Cam Robinson. He has been underwhelming, but he has finally gotten to a point where he is now serviceable, after a very long and bumpy road. Jonah Williams was LT for the Crimson Tide and was drafted #11 overall by the Bengals in 2019. He has been underwhelming as well. Living here in Cincinnati, I can tell you that all the sports talk radio since the Superbowl has been focused on finding a new LT and moving Williams either to RT or possibly inside to OG. Fans know that while he is Cincinnati's best O-Lineman, he certainly isn't cut out to be an NFL LT. Jedrick Wills was Alabama's star RT and was so highly regarded that the Cleveland Browns drafted him #10 overall to be their starting LT. He has been racked with penalty issues and injuries since coming into the league. Finally, we get our latest example, Alex Leatherwood. He played LT at Alabama while Evan Neal was relegated to RT. Leatherwood was drafted #17 overall by the Raiders in the last draft. He has been an unmitigated disaster accounting for 14 penalties and 8 sacks in his lone NFL season. He's so bad they had to move him inside to OG midway through the season, where he wasn't much better. Out of all of the Alabama OT's on this list, Cam Robinson may currently be the best one and it has taken him a long time to get to this point. Why gamble on another Alabama OT when history has told us over and over that these guys don't work out in the NFL?

We simply need to tag Cam Robinson for another season. Have him and Little compete for the starting LT position with the loser moving to RT and our OT spots are set for 2022. We look for an OT prospect in the mid rounds to serve as the Swing Tackle and possibly the RT of the future. That way we get a premier pass rusher with the #1 overall pick, the OT positions are secure and we can focus on the interior O-Line positions in free agency and the draft. IMO, this is a no-brainer. This is just not a good draft for OT's. No one OT sticks out as a premier player. We've held onto Cam Robinson this long and he's finally to a point where he can be trusted. Why ditch him for another rookie in a poor OT draft class? It just doesn't make sense.
(Emphasis added)

it's okay to disagree with me.  Everyone misses from time to time, and if I'm wrong with Neal, it wouldn't be my first or last miss.

The emphasized portion is what gives me pause about drafting Neal.  With the exception of Jedrick Willis, Alabama tackles under Nick Saban typically have not fared well. In fact, except for Wills, you have to go all the way back to Chris Samuels to find a stellar Alabama T.  I think what separates Neal is his length, athleticism and coaching.  I think he's a far better athlete than either Jonah Williams and Leatherwood.   In facr, I think he's a better athlete than Mekhi Becton.  But if I had a second concern, it would be his size.  Sometimes a T can get too big, and as a result he can't move well enough to be an effective pass protector.  To my knowledge, he hasn't had problems with his weight, and as long as he stays in the 340-360 range, I think he'll be okay.  Anything above that though, and he could get TL killed.  I've heard rumblings that the Jets are less than happy with Becton for that very reason (his weight).

Another reason I am more apt to take Neal at one vs. either of the edge rushers is that I am convinced we could find a viable edge rusher into the 3rd and 4th round, whereas I think the dropoff at T is substantial after Penning (maybe Kinnard) comes off the board. Another advantage to letting Cam walk and taking Neal is that we'd save about $7- 8 million off the cap hit (rookie wage scale vs. franchise tag).  We could use that money to get more help.  Of course, if you decided NOT to franchise Cam, you'd almost HAVE to go OL with that first pick at that point.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#4

(02-20-2022, 01:43 AM)Bullseye Wrote:
(02-20-2022, 01:08 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: Normally, I agree with the vast majority of your takes, but I couldn't disagree with you more on this topic. I've seen at least 75% of the Crimson Tide's games last season and I was very underwhelmed by what I saw in Evan Neal. He got off balance too much and was beaten way too many times last season. Luckily for him, he had the best and most pro ready QB in the NCAA. Bryce Young has great pocket awareness and very good field vision he knew when to get rid of the ball to avoid sacks and pressures. If not for him, I truly believe we would not be talking about Neal as a potential #1 pick or possibly even a first rounder. IMO, he's just a slightly above average, RT only prospect. With that said, let's look at another angle as well.

Alabama has several OT's that are currently playing in the NFL. None are stars and many just aren't good. James Carpenter was Alabama's LT and went onto be drafted #25 overall by Seattle in 2011. He was very underwhelming and the Seahawks declined his 5th year option. Since then, he has moved from team to team after being pushed inside to OG. We all know what we have in Cam Robinson. He has been underwhelming, but he has finally gotten to a point where he is now serviceable, after a very long and bumpy road. Jonah Williams was LT for the Crimson Tide and was drafted #11 overall by the Bengals in 2019. He has been underwhelming as well. Living here in Cincinnati, I can tell you that all the sports talk radio since the Superbowl has been focused on finding a new LT and moving Williams either to RT or possibly inside to OG. Fans know that while he is Cincinnati's best O-Lineman, he certainly isn't cut out to be an NFL LT. Jedrick Wills was Alabama's star RT and was so highly regarded that the Cleveland Browns drafted him #10 overall to be their starting LT. He has been racked with penalty issues and injuries since coming into the league. Finally, we get our latest example, Alex Leatherwood. He played LT at Alabama while Evan Neal was relegated to RT. Leatherwood was drafted #17 overall by the Raiders in the last draft. He has been an unmitigated disaster accounting for 14 penalties and 8 sacks in his lone NFL season. He's so bad they had to move him inside to OG midway through the season, where he wasn't much better. Out of all of the Alabama OT's on this list, Cam Robinson may currently be the best one and it has taken him a long time to get to this point. Why gamble on another Alabama OT when history has told us over and over that these guys don't work out in the NFL?

We simply need to tag Cam Robinson for another season. Have him and Little compete for the starting LT position with the loser moving to RT and our OT spots are set for 2022. We look for an OT prospect in the mid rounds to serve as the Swing Tackle and possibly the RT of the future. That way we get a premier pass rusher with the #1 overall pick, the OT positions are secure and we can focus on the interior O-Line positions in free agency and the draft. IMO, this is a no-brainer. This is just not a good draft for OT's. No one OT sticks out as a premier player. We've held onto Cam Robinson this long and he's finally to a point where he can be trusted. Why ditch him for another rookie in a poor OT draft class? It just doesn't make sense.
(Emphasis added)

it's okay to disagree with me.  Everyone misses from time to time, and if I'm wrong with Neal, it wouldn't be my first or last miss.

The emphasized portion is what gives me pause about drafting Neal.  With the exception of Jedrick Willis, Alabama tackles under Nick Saban typically have not fared well. In fact, except for Wills, you have to go all the way back to Chris Samuels to find a stellar Alabama T.  I think what separates Neal is his length, athleticism and coaching.  I think he's a far better athlete than either Jonah Williams and Leatherwood.   In facr, I think he's a better athlete than Mekhi Becton.  But if I had a second concern, it would be his size.  Sometimes a T can get too big, and as a result he can't move well enough to be an effective pass protector.  To my knowledge, he hasn't had problems with his weight, and as long as he stays in the 340-360 range, I think he'll be okay.  Anything above that though, and he could get TL killed.  I've heard rumblings that the Jets are less than happy with Becton for that very reason (his weight).

Another reason I am more apt to take Neal at one vs. either of the edge rushers is that I am convinced we could find a viable edge rusher into the 3rd and 4th round, whereas I think the dropoff at T is substantial after Penning (maybe Kinnard) comes off the board. Another advantage to letting Cam walk and taking Neal is that we'd save about $7- 8 million off the cap hit (rookie wage scale vs. franchise tag).  We could use that money to get more help.  Of course, if you decided NOT to franchise Cam, you'd almost HAVE to go OL with that first pick at that point.

Another good point. Mekhi Becton is very similar to Neal's size and he is struggling. He dislocated his knee cap and only played 48 snaps last season. Like you said, there were rumors that he was unable to come back due to him gaining so much weight while he was injured. He was reportedly between 370-380 lbs. Now, there are rumors that the Jets may trade him. 

This draft is fairly deep at the Edge Rusher position, but I also believe this draft is very weak at OT. In fact, depending on what Ikem Ekwonu measures in, Trevor Penning might end up being my #1 overall OT. As far as letting Cam walk and taking Neal, why should cap savings even matter? We have a ton of cap space. Why not just keep the proven player for another season, rather than replace him with an unknown rookie? Money won't really matter when it comes to getting UFA's anyway. We can outspend almost any other team, but what good UFA is gonna want to come to a losing franchise with a troublesome GM, a clueless owner and a history of disputes with players when they have other options? We're gonna end up with 2nd and 3rd tier free agents due to the chaos of last season and the fact that we are a long way from even being a .500 team. 

Even if we didn't franchise Cam, we definitely do not have to go OT with the first pick. We drafted Walker Little to be the eventual starting LT, for better or for worse. He would step into the role he was drafted to fill. From there, we look for a starting RT and a Swing Tackle. They can be had later in the draft. RT's are consistently found in the middle rounds of the draft.
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#5

Agreed, Neal is a beast. Hutch is who I want but I wouldn't mind it at all if we took Neal
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#6
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2022, 09:54 AM by Bullseye. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-20-2022, 02:15 AM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote:
(02-20-2022, 01:43 AM)Bullseye Wrote: (Emphasis added)

it's okay to disagree with me.  Everyone misses from time to time, and if I'm wrong with Neal, it wouldn't be my first or last miss.

The emphasized portion is what gives me pause about drafting Neal.  With the exception of Jedrick Willis, Alabama tackles under Nick Saban typically have not fared well. In fact, except for Wills, you have to go all the way back to Chris Samuels to find a stellar Alabama T.  I think what separates Neal is his length, athleticism and coaching.  I think he's a far better athlete than either Jonah Williams and Leatherwood.   In facr, I think he's a better athlete than Mekhi Becton.  But if I had a second concern, it would be his size.  Sometimes a T can get too big, and as a result he can't move well enough to be an effective pass protector.  To my knowledge, he hasn't had problems with his weight, and as long as he stays in the 340-360 range, I think he'll be okay.  Anything above that though, and he could get TL killed.  I've heard rumblings that the Jets are less than happy with Becton for that very reason (his weight).

Another reason I am more apt to take Neal at one vs. either of the edge rushers is that I am convinced we could find a viable edge rusher into the 3rd and 4th round, whereas I think the dropoff at T is substantial after Penning (maybe Kinnard) comes off the board. Another advantage to letting Cam walk and taking Neal is that we'd save about $7- 8 million off the cap hit (rookie wage scale vs. franchise tag).  We could use that money to get more help.  Of course, if you decided NOT to franchise Cam, you'd almost HAVE to go OL with that first pick at that point.

Another good point. Mekhi Becton is very similar to Neal's size and he is struggling. He dislocated his knee cap and only played 48 snaps last season. Like you said, there were rumors that he was unable to come back due to him gaining so much weight while he was injured. He was reportedly between 370-380 lbs. Now, there are rumors that the Jets may trade him. 

This draft is fairly deep at the Edge Rusher position, but I also believe this draft is very weak at OT. In fact, depending on what Ikem Ekwonu measures in, Trevor Penning might end up being my #1 overall OT. As far as letting Cam walk and taking Neal, why should cap savings even matter? We have a ton of cap space. Why not just keep the proven player for another season, rather than replace him with an unknown rookie? Money won't really matter when it comes to getting UFA's anyway. We can outspend almost any other team, but what good UFA is gonna want to come to a losing franchise with a troublesome GM, a clueless owner and a history of disputes with players when they have other options? We're gonna end up with 2nd and 3rd tier free agents due to the chaos of last season and the fact that we are a long way from even being a .500 team. 

Even if we didn't franchise Cam, we definitely do not have to go OT with the first pick. We drafted Walker Little to be the eventual starting LT, for better or for worse. He would step into the role he was drafted to fill. From there, we look for a starting RT and a Swing Tackle. They can be had later in the draft. RT's are consistently found in the middle rounds of the draft.
Just saw a mock draft video where CBS' Ryan Wilson noted that Evan Neal played at 390 lbs in high school.

If this is true, I become far more concerned about Neal's viability.

While it's entirely possible that he has learned  how to eat more healthy or otherwise control his weight in a college level weight training and nutrition program and that he's better equipped now and in the future, it's also entirely possible that with his NFL income and exposure to a lot of top end restaurants both during the season and in the off season, his weight could balloon.

Jeez.

The words of Jim Mora are ringing true

https://youtu.be/NHipzGL4dwM
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#7

All good points...one of the better rational and thoughtful discussions by all I have read on this board in some time.

Ex-coach Dave Campo on 1010 this past week stated something that resonates with me. Generally, he thinks Cam is a bottom 10 starting LT in the league, not worthy of another tag. Although he acknowledged that he is one of the Jag's better linemen, that does mean much on a subpar line. For me, Walker Little was drafted in round 2 to be a starting LT (with needed experience/development due to limited college reps). He got some limited practice reps at RT so that he could perform in the game day active swing tackle role, but it is not his position of strength. He showed late last season, in my mind, that he will be able to handle the LT role going forward, and a side benefit is that he is significantly less expensive.

Taylor has been poor at RT, and needs to be upgraded. The good thing is that there are options to adequately upgrade the RT spot, more cost effectively. I am more of an advocate in signing a RT vet in free agency, such as Trent Brown or Morgan Moses. If you want to find one in the draft, trade back or use round 2 or later. If they draft Neal, I can see the merit, but I just don't think it is the best use of the 1st pick.

Swing tackle has been mentioned by some. If Taylor was bad at RT, I do not want him potentially to need to be the starter at LT. He would get Trevor annihilated. He needs to be moved into OG, and provide backup RT only consideration. The one guy seldom mentioned is Will Richardson that I think the team may re-sign. He is a valued game day active swing player due to his versatility at both tackle and guard. If not a Will Richardson fan, a young OT can be drafted in likely rounds 3 or 4 to develop and fill the swing role.
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#8

(02-20-2022, 09:52 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Agreed, Neal is a beast.  Hutch is who I want but I wouldn't mind it at all if we took Neal

Hutch concerns me because he's only had the one year of production and I wonder just how much upside he has.

I think Thibideaux has more upside, but I could also see him flaming out here if things go sideways.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#9

(02-20-2022, 10:44 AM)ATLjag Wrote: All good points...one of the better rational and thoughtful discussions by all I have read on this board in some time.

Ex-coach Dave Campo on 1010 this past week stated something that resonates with me.  Generally, he thinks Cam is a bottom 10 starting LT in the league, not worthy of another tag.  Although he acknowledged that he is one of the Jag's better linemen, that does mean much on a subpar line.  For me, Walker Little was drafted in round 2 to be a starting LT (with needed experience/development due to limited college reps).  He got some limited practice reps at RT so that he could perform in the game day active swing tackle role, but it is not his position of strength.  He showed late last season, in my mind, that he will be able to handle the LT role going forward, and a side benefit is that he is significantly less expensive. 

Taylor has been poor at RT, and needs to be upgraded.  The good thing is that there are options to adequately upgrade the RT spot, more cost effectively.  I am more of an advocate in signing a RT vet in free agency, such as Trent Brown or Morgan Moses.  If you want to find one in the draft, trade back or use round 2 or later.  If they draft Neal, I can see the merit, but I just don't think it is the best use of the 1st pick.

Swing tackle has been mentioned by some.  If Taylor was bad at RT, I do not want him potentially to need to be the starter at LT.  He would get Trevor annihilated.  He needs to be moved into OG, and provide backup RT only consideration.  The one guy seldom mentioned is Will Richardson that I think the team may re-sign.  He is a valued game day active swing player due to his versatility at both tackle and guard.  If not a Will Richardson fan, a young OT can be drafted in likely rounds 3 or 4 to develop and fill the swing role.

Thanks for the kudos and I, fr one, welcome your input.

Campo is a favorite of mine to listen to and I try to catch him when I can.  I heard that interview and I agreed with his assessment.  I think despite his propensity to pivot and roll outside LT, TL actually has very good pocket presence, and that pocket presence and his athleticism contributed a great deal to the team's improvement in sacks allowed in the first half of the season.

While I could get on board with your strategy, your approach is not without its downsides.  If you were to ride with a veteran RT from free agency, you'd lose the benefit of the versatility and depth of having two guys who could play LT at a fairly decent level if needed.  While we'd upgrade the OL from what we currently have, we'd lose the dynamic we saw with the Eagles in 2017 and the Jaguars from 1996-1999 with Boselli and Coleman.  Barring an investment of a later pick on a guy who could successfully play LT, we would be susceptible to the same issues that happened in 2018.  If weight is a concern with Neal, it's also a concern with Trent Brown-to say nothing of age.

I hasten to point out that the versatility arguments I made in favor of Neal did not, under any scenario I offered, employ Jawaan Taylor at LT.  To be clear, if we kept Cam and Taylor and drafted Neal, we;d have three guys who could provide decent reps at LT if needed (Neal, Little and Cam Robinson) and three who could provide the same at RT on at least a short term basis (Neal, Little, and in a worst case scenario Taylor).  The only positional versatility I would ascribe to Taylor at this point or in the forseeable future is him moving from RT inside to G.  But so far, he has been hostile to such a move.

Let me say that many of these rationales I had for Neal could also be satisfied by drafting Ekwonu, if you conclude he has the length to play T.  He certainly has the athletic ability to play T.  For me, the only questions I have on Ekwonu are his length and his technique, as his pass sets need work.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#10

(02-20-2022, 10:44 AM)ATLjag Wrote: All good points...one of the better rational and thoughtful discussions by all I have read on this board in some time.

Ex-coach Dave Campo on 1010 this past week stated something that resonates with me.  Generally, he thinks Cam is a bottom 10 starting LT in the league, not worthy of another tag.  Although he acknowledged that he is one of the Jag's better linemen, that does mean much on a subpar line.  For me, Walker Little was drafted in round 2 to be a starting LT (with needed experience/development due to limited college reps).  He got some limited practice reps at RT so that he could perform in the game day active swing tackle role, but it is not his position of strength.  He showed late last season, in my mind, that he will be able to handle the LT role going forward, and a side benefit is that he is significantly less expensive. 

Taylor has been poor at RT, and needs to be upgraded.  The good thing is that there are options to adequately upgrade the RT spot, more cost effectively.  I am more of an advocate in signing a RT vet in free agency, such as Trent Brown or Morgan Moses.  If you want to find one in the draft, trade back or use round 2 or later.  If they draft Neal, I can see the merit, but I just don't think it is the best use of the 1st pick.

Swing tackle has been mentioned by some.  If Taylor was bad at RT, I do not want him potentially to need to be the starter at LT.  He would get Trevor annihilated.  He needs to be moved into OG, and provide backup RT only consideration.  The one guy seldom mentioned is Will Richardson that I think the team may re-sign.  He is a valued game day active swing player due to his versatility at both tackle and guard.  If not a Will Richardson fan, a young OT can be drafted in likely rounds 3 or 4 to develop and fill the swing role.

Amen.
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#11

(02-20-2022, 11:00 AM)Bullseye Wrote:
(02-20-2022, 09:52 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Agreed, Neal is a beast.  Hutch is who I want but I wouldn't mind it at all if we took Neal

Hutch concerns me because he's only had the one year of production and I wonder just how much upside he has.

I think Thibideaux has more upside, but I could also see him flaming out here if things go sideways.

I like Thibs as well.  I just like Hutch better in a 3-4 where he dominated this passed year and Thibs better in a 4-3.  If we still had a 4-3 I'd want Thibs, I don't think Hutch will be very good in a 4-3, he needs to be a stand up rush edge like they used him this past season
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#12
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2022, 11:40 AM by Upper. Edited 1 time in total.)

My biggest contention with the post is that we simply don't need "a tremendous upgrade on the OL." We have points of evidence for this. First, the growing thought that elite OL are not nearly as impactful as before. No one lines up Jason Taylor or Bruce Smith vs Boselli and lets them go 1v1 for 4 quarters anymore. If you have a HOF caliber OL teams are simply going to put their star pass rusher somewhere else. Remember Daniel Jeremiah's tomato can tweet. But people like PFF have been saying that for half a decade now. Just don't have any glaring weaknesses and that's way more important than having a superstar.

Second, Trevor Lawrence has already proven that he can make a bad oline look average. He will make an average oline look good. And he did that as a rookie, he'll make them look even better by comparison as he gets more and more NFL experience.

Third, we have in house options to make our tackles perfectly fine for 2022. All we have to do is spend a small amount of our enormous amount of salary space on tagging Cam again.

Draft EDGE at 1 then a developemental OT at 65 or 70 and prosper.
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#13

(02-20-2022, 11:32 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I don't think Hutch will be very good in a 4-3, he needs to be a stand up rush edge like they used him this past season

What do you think they are telling you by the fact that the bigger guy who is absolutely DE size was always standing up, and not just standing up but usually lined up in a wide 9 and even off ball alignment?
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#14
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2022, 11:53 AM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-20-2022, 11:00 AM)Bullseye Wrote:
(02-20-2022, 09:52 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: Agreed, Neal is a beast.  Hutch is who I want but I wouldn't mind it at all if we took Neal

Hutch concerns me because he's only had the one year of production and I wonder just how much upside he has.

I think Thibideaux has more upside, but I could also see him flaming out here if things go sideways.

On Hutch being good only 1 year, he had a ankle injury his Jr year and his sophomore year they had him playing with his hand in the dirt, I think they finally realized that's not what he's best at

(02-20-2022, 11:48 AM)Upper Wrote:
(02-20-2022, 11:32 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: I don't think Hutch will be very good in a 4-3, he needs to be a stand up rush edge like they used him this past season

What do you think they are telling you by the fact that the bigger guy who is absolutely DE size was always standing up, and not just standing up but usually lined up in a wide 9 and even off ball alignment?

He's a 3-4 OLB and play him to his strengths
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#15

(02-20-2022, 11:36 AM)Upper Wrote: My biggest contention with the post is that we simply don't need "a tremendous upgrade on the OL." We have points of evidence for this. First, the growing thought that elite OL are not nearly as impactful as before. No one lines up Jason Taylor or Bruce Smith vs Boselli and lets them go 1v1 for 4 quarters anymore. If you have a HOF caliber OL teams are simply going to put their star pass rusher somewhere else.  Remember Daniel Jeremiah's tomato can tweet. But people like PFF have been saying that for half a decade now. Just don't have any glaring weaknesses and that's way more important than having a superstar.

Second, Trevor Lawrence has already proven that he can make a bad oline look average. He will make an average oline look good. And he did that as a rookie, he'll make them look even better by comparison as he gets more and more NFL experience.

Third, we have in house options to make our tackles perfectly fine for 2022. All we have to do is spend a small amount of our enormous amount of salary space on tagging Cam again.

Draft EDGE at 1 then a developemental OT at 65 or 70 and prosper.

There are some issues with this analysis.

First off, teams have been moving around their best pass rushers for decades now.  Lawrence Taylor, Howie Long, Charles Haley and sometimes even Bruce Smith were moved around the front.  It's hardly a recent development.

Secondly, your post presupposes the addition of Neal would mean only one tremendous upgrade on the OL.  I submit to you that Evan Neal and Walker Little, no matter which side you put either, would represent the potential to be tremendous upgrades (note the plural) along the OL.  Ability wise, not only would such a duo not present any glaring weaknesses, both would potentially represent positions of relative strength.  It wouldn't matter to which side the pass rusher was moved.  The player was capable of winning that matchup and shutting him down.  The defense could not dictate the formation, protection, and route combination based on merely switching a DE's side.

Furthermore, I agree with you that TLs pocket awareness and athletic ability are a tremendous help to the offensive line and makes them look better than they really are.  That was painfully evident the first half of last year.  however, just because TL is capable of making the OL look better doesn't mean the same bad OL is making his job any easier.  In fact it's making his job more difficult.  Each time he has to scramble like mad to avoid the rush, he gets out of rhythm.  If he has to pull the ball down just as a receiver is breaking open, he can't make he completion.  Pressure impacts the accuracy of the throws.  Worse, when you have guys like Jawaan Taylor repeatedly being beaten for sacks and repeatedly getting penalty after penalty, it puts TL and the team in very difficult down and distance situations.  Sometimes what should be a relatively easy 3rd and 2-3 becomes a far more difficult 3rd and 7-8 or worse, 3rd and 12-13 if a holding penalty. The last two super Bowls also illustrated the perils of poor offensive line play on QBs.  Two years ago, Patrick Mahomes suffered a horrible Super Bowl loss because his two starting OLs were missing due to injury, and the guys they had to replace the starters were unable to block the Bucs edge rushers.  This year the Bengals lost the Super Bowl in large part because their OL was incapable of blocking the rams' defensive front.  They suffered 7 sacks in the second half of the game, and pressure was a huge factor on the game clinching play-a play that saw Jamar Chase wide open for what might have been the winning TD if Burrow had time to go through his progressions and get him the ball. Worst of all, bad OL play-even if inflated by a QB like TL with exceptional pocket presence and athletic ability-can cause wear and tear on a QBs body,  Colts' QB Andrew Luck-to whom TL drew plenty pf pre draft comparisons-wound up retiring much earlier than anyone ever anticipated because the Colts didn't protect him adequately.  One of the worst things that could happen to the Jaguars is that a similar fate befall Trevor Lawrence because we didn't give him adequate protection.
 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!





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#16

(02-20-2022, 12:16 PM)Bullseye Wrote: One of the worst things that could happen to the Jaguars is that a similar fate befall Trevor Lawrence because we didn't give him adequate protection.

I have absolutely never said not to give Trevor adequate protection, I just don't believe we have to spend #1 overall to do that. That's an extremely valuable and rare asset to have to improve a team, and using it to improve merely 1/5 of a chain is not wise IMO.

Tagging Cam and moving him to RT, signing 1 starting caliber IOL in FA, and then drafting 1 starting caliber IOL at 33 65 or 70 will give Trevor adequate protection.
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#17
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2022, 03:07 PM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 2 times in total.)

(02-20-2022, 02:46 PM)Upper Wrote:
(02-20-2022, 12:16 PM)Bullseye Wrote: One of the worst things that could happen to the Jaguars is that a similar fate befall Trevor Lawrence because we didn't give him adequate protection.

I have absolutely never said not to give Trevor adequate protection, I just don't believe we have to spend #1 overall to do that. That's an extremely valuable and rare asset to have to improve a team, and using it to improve merely 1/5 of a chain is not wise IMO.

Tagging Cam and moving him to RT, signing 1 starting caliber IOL in FA, and then drafting 1 starting caliber IOL at 33 65 or 70 will give Trevor adequate protection.
You keep saying that but he might not want to play RT. He's played LT his whole career and college and likely High School, Sercy was talking about it the other day, Cam might not be willing to move to RT and it wouldn't surprise me especially being last year was his best year along with his rookie year. Just like Orlando Brown won't play RT.
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#18

I am on the draft the best offensive tackle available in the first round bandwagon. Tackles that are that size and can move are rare, they will not be available in the second round. The Jaguars had the most success when they had bookend tackles (Boselli and Searcy) I would still tag Cam as our new tackle would be a rookie and no matter how good will still need a bit of time to adjust and learn. I am just not sold on Hutch as he disappeared the game he played against a good Alabama line and was not much of a factor earlier in the year against the good Georgia line. Thibs I don't know that much about, but looking at the O lines he played against I am not convinced he could be as impactful in at the pro level.
A new broom always sweeps clean.
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#19
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2022, 03:09 PM by Upper.)

(02-20-2022, 03:06 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote:
(02-20-2022, 02:46 PM)Upper Wrote: I have absolutely never said not to give Trevor adequate protection, I just don't believe we have to spend #1 overall to do that. That's an extremely valuable and rare asset to have to improve a team, and using it to improve merely 1/5 of a chain is not wise IMO.

Tagging Cam and moving him to RT, signing 1 starting caliber IOL in FA, and then drafting 1 starting caliber IOL at 33 65 or 70 will give Trevor adequate protection.
You keep saying that but he might not want to play RT. He's played LT his whole career and college and likely High School, Sercy was talking about it the other day, Cam might not be willing to move to RT and it wouldn't surprise me especially being last year was his best year along with his rookie year. Just like Orlando Brown won't play RT.

So he's going to hold out and miss out on 16M? Don't think so. He won't be happy about it but he'd do it because he wants the big payday and has no leverage.
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#20
(This post was last modified: 02-20-2022, 03:15 PM by flgatorsandjags. Edited 1 time in total.)

(02-20-2022, 03:09 PM)Upper Wrote:
(02-20-2022, 03:06 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: You keep saying that but he might not want to play RT. He's played LT his whole career and college and likely High School, Sercy was talking about it the other day, Cam might not be willing to move to RT and it wouldn't surprise me especially being last year was his best year along with his rookie year.  Just like Orlando Brown won't play RT.

So he's going to hold out and miss out on 16M? Don't think so. He won't be happy about it but he'd do it because he wants the big payday and has no leverage.
Not miss out on 16 mil.  Just let the staff know that he won't play RT.  So there for, if we want Little at LT and Cam's not willing to play RT, we just won't tag him and go find and upgrade at RT elsewhere like Trent Brown maybe.  If we don't tag Cam,  he will likely get a decent multi year deal elsewhere to play LT not RT. I'd be willing to bet Cam doesn't want to play RT when he's always played LT
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