Right now it looks like Etienne is a better pick than Elijah Moore.  Agree?

Right now. Yes.

But it's all about the situation too right? Like if Elijah Moore goes to GB last year like a lot of people projected, do we see a different Elijah Moore? Right now he's playing with Zach Wilson who stinks.

You're going to side with ETN every time because YOU personally thought he was elite. I bet the Steelers thought Najee was elite right? How's that working out? Would you be happy if the Jags got Najee after ETN went to the Steelers?

Again. I'm glad he's here but it's just not the player I would have chosen. Whether that's right or wrong in the long run.

Moore gave the Jets 600 yards and 5 TDs last year, better than ETN. Once he gets out of New York and to a team that knows how to use him he'll be really good.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Very true.

But there's a reason average WRs get traded for 1st rounders (Hollywood) and average RBs get traded for 5th rounders (JRob). They're just not as valuable.

Not saying it's not nice to have one an elite RB but RBs are far down my list of positions that I would draft when building a team. Just look at the difference Tyreek Hill and Waddle made. You think they would trade either of those guys for someone like Henry? Not a chance. Get speed at WR, a move TE and build an Oline. Draft an RB in round 3 or later and plug them in.

Would you pass on Fred Taylor at #9 overall to draft Kevin Dyson?

And plug in RB Skip Hicks, who went 8th in the 3rd round in 1998?

Good lord. What are you even talking about?

It's not always about the next WR on the board. It's just about value. Why do you think teams aren't taking RBs very high anymore? You think the Giants would still take Barkley #2? Or that the Jags and Panthers would have still taken Fournette or CMac?

Barkley and CMac are elite but I can assure you that neither team would still select those guys if they had a re-do. And that's because the value of taking a RB in the first round is and always will be bad. You can make up whatever "what if" scenario you want but it likely won't change the conversation. So let's move on. Glad to have ETN and hope he scores Sunday.

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Right now it looks like Etienne is a better pick than Elijah Moore.  Agree?

Right now. Yes.

But it's all about the situation too right? Like if Elijah Moore goes to GB last year like a lot of people projected, do we see a different Elijah Moore? Right now he's playing with Zach Wilson who stinks.

You're going to side with ETN every time because YOU personally thought he was elite. I bet the Steelers thought Najee was elite right? How's that working out? Would you be happy if the Jags got Najee after ETN went to the Steelers?

Again. I'm glad he's here but it's just not the player I would have chosen. Whether that's right or wrong in the long run.

Harris going before ETN in that draft was a crime, the fact that a pro football orginization and GM paid millions of dollars thought Harris was a better prospect than ETN still blows my mind. Blew my mind when the pick was made and I really didn't have a clue we'd be taking ETN.

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Right now. Yes.

But it's all about the situation too right? Like if Elijah Moore goes to GB last year like a lot of people projected, do we see a different Elijah Moore? Right now he's playing with Zach Wilson who stinks.

You're going to side with ETN every time because YOU personally thought he was elite. I bet the Steelers thought Najee was elite right? How's that working out? Would you be happy if the Jags got Najee after ETN went to the Steelers?

Again. I'm glad he's here but it's just not the player I would have chosen. Whether that's right or wrong in the long run.

Moore gave the Jets 600 yards and 5 TDs last year, better than ETN. Once he gets out of New York and to a team that knows how to use him he'll be really good.

Marvin Jones gave us 833 yards and 4 TDs last year, better than Elijah Moore. Once the Jets trade us Moore for Jones they will be good.

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Right now it looks like Etienne is a better pick than Elijah Moore.  Agree?

Right now. Yes.

But it's all about the situation too right? Like if Elijah Moore goes to GB last year like a lot of people projected, do we see a different Elijah Moore? Right now he's playing with Zach Wilson who stinks.

You're going to side with ETN every time because YOU personally thought he was elite. I bet the Steelers thought Najee was elite right? How's that working out? Would you be happy if the Jags got Najee after ETN went to the Steelers?

Again. I'm glad he's here but it's just not the player I would have chosen. Whether that's right or wrong in the long run.

Even more crazy hypothetical - at that time Buffalo was (is?) very RB-needy and had eyes on Etienne. How deadly would they be if they pulled the trigger on a deal for pick 25?

What would you (the board, not Cleat specifically) have tooken to move?

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Elijah Moore.

Look. It's definitely worked out in the Jags favor and I'm glad it did. It didn't work out in the Steelers favor though when they took Najee.

I just wouldn't have done it.

We are beating a dead horse here.

You can say that about a bunch of players at every position.  Just because he hasn't been as good as expected, not because he's a RB.  With that said the Steelers oline is trash

as is their QB(s). Dude's got no chance up there.

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Right now. Yes.

But it's all about the situation too right? Like if Elijah Moore goes to GB last year like a lot of people projected, do we see a different Elijah Moore? Right now he's playing with Zach Wilson who stinks.

You're going to side with ETN every time because YOU personally thought he was elite. I bet the Steelers thought Najee was elite right? How's that working out? Would you be happy if the Jags got Najee after ETN went to the Steelers?

Again. I'm glad he's here but it's just not the player I would have chosen. Whether that's right or wrong in the long run.

Even more crazy hypothetical - at that time Buffalo was (is?) very RB-needy and had eyes on Etienne. How deadly would they be if they pulled the trigger on a deal for pick 25?

What would you (the board, not Cleat specifically) have tooken to move?

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You can say that about a bunch of players at every position.  Just because he hasn't been as good as expected, not because he's a RB.  With that said the Steelers oline is trash

as is their QB(s). Dude's got no chance up there.

Why is that?  Get him some help on that oline and hes got some pretty good weapons.  That D is pretty good as well when TJ Watt is healthy

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What player would you have picked instead of Travis Etienne?

Elijah Moore.

Look. It's definitely worked out in the Jags favor and I'm glad it did. It didn't work out in the Steelers favor though when they took Najee.

I just wouldn't have done it.

We are beating a dead horse here.

We had the chance to draft ETN and Moore and we passed on Moore twice so it's a moot point anyway.

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Our last 2 drafts have been good.

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Our last 2 drafts have been good.

2021 landed you Lawrence, Etienne, Campbell, Little and Cisco. Pretty solid group. With a lot of potential growth. Little not being on the field in any starting capacity is a concern though. Not sure where the grade is at on Cisco. We saw the pick six in week four. He dropped a pick six at home against Vegas. Not sure if he was responsible for the running game gashing us in a few games, etc. 

I want to say he's at least serviceable. So, all in all, yeah. Pretty good draft on paper. Year three for these guys is the make or break moment for most players. I am willing to bet all of them continue to make impacts and waves in 2023. Not because they're starting. But, because they're capable of it. Even Little. 

This past draft was pretty good. Was a little too defensively favored for most people's liking but it made sense value wise. I think where most people get hung up on, myself included, the whole WR1 thing. This was a pretty loaded class to potentially land a WR1. There was just a crazy run early and all that really left you with was George Pickens, who, is shaping up to be a good receiver early. He probably has the worst overall situation to work with as well. 

A lot of it is still based on hope. You're hoping Walker can develop into a stellar and disruptive pass rusher. You're hoping Lloyd can overcome some of his challenges. I think Lageman said he's only registered 3 or 4 solo tackles now over the last 3 games. Something is up there. In fairness, he had an INT taken away in the Giants game. Made the play to seal the deal against the Raiders as well. So, maybe he's going to be fine. 

You're hoping Fortner can improve and learn how to hold down the fort so to speak sooner rather than later. Muma at pick 70, what's the long term goal there? Are you developing him slowly to move into Oloukon's spot in the near future? Otherwise, people are going to keep looking for this "money backer" role or for him to be into the game as much as Lloyd. Conner at RB? So far they traded up and are getting nothing out of him. Junior I think is gone or on PS. I know Brown just saw his first game.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Our last 2 drafts have been good.

I agree. Wish we took Sauce Gardner at 1 instead of Travon, but I still have hope for Travon.

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Would you pass on Fred Taylor at #9 overall to draft Kevin Dyson?

And plug in RB Skip Hicks, who went 8th in the 3rd round in 1998?

Good lord. What are you even talking about?

It's not always about the next WR on the board. It's just about value. Why do you think teams aren't taking RBs very high anymore? You think the Giants would still take Barkley #2? Or that the Jags and Panthers would have still taken Fournette or CMac?

Barkley and CMac are elite but I can assure you that neither team would still select those guys if they had a re-do. And that's because the value of taking a RB in the first round is and always will be bad. You can make up whatever "what if" scenario you want but it likely won't change the conversation. So let's move on. Glad to have ETN and hope he scores Sunday.

Would you or not ?

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Would you pass on Fred Taylor at #9 overall to draft Kevin Dyson?

And plug in RB Skip Hicks, who went 8th in the 3rd round in 1998?

Good lord. What are you even talking about?

It's not always about the next WR on the board. It's just about value. Why do you think teams aren't taking RBs very high anymore? You think the Giants would still take Barkley #2? Or that the Jags and Panthers would have still taken Fournette or CMac?

Barkley and CMac are elite but I can assure you that neither team would still select those guys if they had a re-do. And that's because the value of taking a RB in the first round is and always will be bad. You can make up whatever "what if" scenario you want but it likely won't change the conversation. So let's move on. Glad to have ETN and hope he scores Sunday.

You say "it's just about value" and then you say, "the value of taking a RB in the first round is and always will be bad."  

Which is a completely silly notion, because there will be times when there is a RB who has more value than the next player on the board.  You act like there's never going to be a running back who is worth a first round pick, but that is total nonsense.  Travis Etienne is an example.  And it's the 25th pick, for God's sake, not the 5th pick.  Yes, it's about value, and there will be RBs who are valuable enough to take with a first round pick.  Yes, there are positions that are more valuable than RB, but ultimately, you have to factor in the talent level of the players available.  Not just what position they play. 

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Good lord. What are you even talking about?

It's not always about the next WR on the board. It's just about value. Why do you think teams aren't taking RBs very high anymore? You think the Giants would still take Barkley #2? Or that the Jags and Panthers would have still taken Fournette or CMac?

Barkley and CMac are elite but I can assure you that neither team would still select those guys if they had a re-do. And that's because the value of taking a RB in the first round is and always will be bad. You can make up whatever "what if" scenario you want but it likely won't change the conversation. So let's move on. Glad to have ETN and hope he scores Sunday.

You say "it's just about value" and then you say, "the value of taking a RB in the first round is and always will be bad."  

Which is a completely silly notion, because there will be times when there is a RB who has more value than the next player on the board.  You act like there's never going to be a running back who is worth a first round pick, but that is total nonsense.  Travis Etienne is an example.  And it's the 25th pick, for God's sake, not the 5th pick.  Yes, it's about value, and there will be RBs who are valuable enough to take with a first round pick.  Yes, there are positions that are more valuable than RB, but ultimately, you have to factor in the talent level of the players available.  Not just what position they play. 

If there was a re draft today, a lot of backs like Henry, Kamara,  Chubb etc. would of been 1st round picks.  A lot of those teams that passed them up regret it

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I am as anti 1st round RB as anyone, but it's true that a RB can provide 1st round value on a game by game basis. Especially when you cherry pick those weeks. Etienne has been playing like he has been worth that pick for the last month.

The problem is that RB is the most injured position in the game. They get injured and miss more games with those injuries than any other position. Hell, ETN has already missed 1/4 of his "cheap" rookie contract because of that injury.

It's also the easiest non ST position to get replacement level value of very cheaply. A 1st round RB is already high up on the pay scale and then when they want their big 2nd contract you are either killing your cap or giving up on a 1st round pick after 4 years.

If Etienne can continue this exorbitant workload for the next 2.5 years without getting hurt (very unlikely) then he may wind up being worth the pick for a while...then he will put us in a very hard cap situation when we will also be trying to give Trevor his giant cap eating franchise QB deal.

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Running backs don't last long, that is true. On the other hand, if you compare them to WRs, WRs have longer careers, but they don't stay on the same team. They hit free agency and they're gone. I look at the superstar WRs in the league, and it seems like so many of them are on their 2nd or even 3rd different team. So, you won't get any more usage out of a WR than you will out of a RB.

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Running backs don't last long, that is true. On the other hand, if you compare them to WRs, WRs have longer careers, but they don't stay on the same team. They hit free agency and they're gone. I look at the superstar WRs in the league, and it seems like so many of them are on their 2nd or even 3rd different team. So, you won't get any more usage out of a WR than you will out of a RB.

This is an interesting point. I think it is worth highlighting the draft capital that the drafting teams received after the receiver moved on. I haven’t looked it up, but many returned 1st round picks even with large contracts and mileage.

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I feel like he's being underutilized. I don't think he needs to be a 20 carries per game runner. He needs to be a 15 carries, 10 receiving targets per game type of player for us.

Romo said it best after those two back to back plays with Hasty. Etienne needs to be on the field. Just at a different capacity. I have yet to see him get line up out wide, outside of a few screens he's not really being used in designs that scheme him open.

Would like to see some crossers, wheels, outs and even those motion slants with him from time to time. Especially when the defense is bringing at least five to Lawrence.

If he was getting the Kamara style of play I dont think most people would care where he was drafted. He's a football player that needs to be schemed beyond runs out of the gun up the middle or off tackle runs.

He's had a few opportunities in the passing game that were working. Just not executed earlier on this year. The drop in the opener and the overthrow in the corner for example, etc.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

How many yards did et have today?

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I feel like he's being underutilized. I don't think he needs to be a 20 carries per game runner. He needs to be a 15 carries, 10 receiving targets per game type of player for us.

Romo said it best after those two back to back plays with Hasty. Etienne needs to be on the field. Just at a different capacity. I have yet to see him get line up out wide, outside of a few screens he's not really being used in designs that scheme him open.

Would like to see some crossers, wheels, outs and even those motion slants with him from time to time. Especially when the defense is bringing at least five to Lawrence.

If he was getting the Kamara style of play I dont think most people would care where he was drafted. He's a football player that needs to be schemed beyond runs out of the gun up the middle or off tackle runs.

He's had a few opportunities in the passing game that were working. Just not executed earlier on this year. The drop in the opener and the overthrow in the corner for example, etc.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Agreed

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How many yards did et have today?

11 carries 45 yards

3 catches 28 yards

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How many yards did et have today?

11 carries 45 yards

3 catches 28 yards

Contained fairly well

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