Walker unfortunately was over drafted, though I do think he will turn into a solid start for us. We have a lot of good players but no one truly elite, besides our punter. I think pass rusher is still huge. Maybe get Lloyd more snaps as a rusher.

Except he wasn't.. The Lions already said they would have taken him #2 if we took Hutch #1.

They were both over drafted, Gardner was the #1 player but since everyone thinks you take Position over Talent, here we are.

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Walker unfortunately was over drafted, though I do think he will turn into a solid start for us. We have a lot of good players but no one truly elite, besides our punter. I think pass rusher is still huge. Maybe get Lloyd more snaps as a rusher.

Except he wasn't.. The Lions already said they would have taken him #2 if we took Hutch #1.

you take all the fun out of complaining ... lol 

it was a bad draft with no true #1 but I'm sure we'll look back and realize other players developed better (which is most always the case for any team).  

That said, we just need to count our blessings that the Jets beat the Rams which opened the door to draft #1 in 2020 when Trevor was out there.  Otherwise we'd have be sitting here with Zach Wilson and Travon Walker.  Imagine that !!

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Wingard has  talent for defense,and he can lead the defense better then anyone else on the Jags defenisve roaster.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

This defense is a paper tiger not a single guy I'd say we should build around.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Cisco, Campbell, and Oluokun are damn good.

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Wow but so true  If Josh Allen is leading by example its about the same results.

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I thought it was qell known walker was a project? Not everybody comes out of the gate and has 12 sacks as a rookie. I'll be worried if he isn't playing much bettwr this time next year.

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Except he wasn't.. The Lions already said they would have taken him #2 if we took Hutch #1.

you take all the fun out of complaining ... lol 

it was a bad draft with no true #1 but I'm sure we'll look back and realize other players developed better (which is most always the case for any team).  

That said, we just need to count our blessings that the Jets beat the Rams which opened the door to draft #1 in 2020 when Trevor was out there.  Otherwise we'd have be sitting here with Zach Wilson and Travon Walker.  Imagine that !!

Haha fair point!

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I thought it was qell known walker was a project? Not everybody comes out of the gate and has 12 sacks as a rookie. I'll be worried if he isn't playing much bettwr this time next year.

Man really rooting for him to develop into a top tier player. He has the raw tools, but I haven’t seen much progress so far this year. Hopefully his breakout game is coming

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There's some good players there but we lack a pass rush. Allen looked to be in the verge of becoming elite a few times last year but has disappeared this year. Not sure what's going on there. It's become obvious that Walker is out of position. Muma and Lloyd are both rookies with a lot to learn. Outside of Cisco and Campbell, the rest of the secondary is sub-par. On the line Smoot is a player I like. Key flashed early but has been pretty quiet since then. Bottom line is they need to work on every position group.

I agree with this.
The rookies need some time though. For at least probably 2 years people though Smoot was a wasted day 2 pick.
The only secondary players I really like are Cisco and Campbell.
Cisco's reputation got enhanced by not playing Sunday.

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Or are they being misused under the current DC?

I believe this is right on. They are being misused. Jags have like 50 offensive gurus. We might want to hire one on defense to assist coach Caldwell. He would benifit from a coach helping him. Changes need to be made asap.

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Wow but so true  If Josh Allen is leading by example its about the same results.

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Funny and sad at the same time.

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there was serveall times againest lions Wingard stopped the from getting a td. in fact if it wasn't for Wingard the defense would of also had a 60,70,and 80 yd td scored on them. there might be a video later this week.

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snowwolf titans owner in madden.

note titans owner means im undeafted againest them. 

Lloyd, Muma, Smoot, Campbell, FO (I can’t spell him names for the life of me) are only ones I am confident have for sure talent and can be part of a good defense

Not sure about that one.

He’s a rookie and unlike Walker has shown some talent

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We need better players.  But we have enough talent to do a lot better than we have.  Players being out of position and not knowing whom to cover is not a talent issue.

Pederson made the comment the other day in a press conference that he is not involved in the game planning for the defense.  Usually, Pederson is very careful not to say anything of much substance.  But that was a very telling comment.  I think Caldwell is in over his head.

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Wait. I thought everyone was in love with Dewey.

He's someone you want on your team. At the same time he's not supposed to be our star so if he's our best player on defense that points to a problem.

The real problem as I'm sure you know is the lack of production from a number of first rounders. Then again, that may be only the visible part of the problem. Why this happens is probably the question we should ask ourselves. And many are asking that question.

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"The defense has gone downhill since Week 3 in Los Angeles and has blown fourth-quarter leads this season to the Washington Commanders, Indianapolis Colts and Denver Broncos. On Sunday, the Lions scored on every single possession until they ran out the clock with less than a minute to play. The Jaguars couldn't pressure Lions quarterback Jared Goff, couldn't cover wide receiver Amon-Ra St. Brown – who looked like Jerry Rice – and couldn't stop running backs Jamaal Williams and D'Andre Swift when the Lions did put the ball on the ground. In the last two years, the club has invested huge money in Roy Robertson-Harris, Foye Oluokun, Foley Fatukasi, Rayshawn Jenkins, Shaq Griffin and Darious Williams in free agency and spent high draft picks on Travon Walker, Devin Lloyd, Chad Muma, Tyson Campbell and Andre Cisco. Most alarming is that Walker, Lloyd and Muma aren't getting better; they shouldn't look so completely lost in December. These are guys who can all play. but they're not playing well. Since they're locked into these players with a tight salary cap in 2023. change must come from somewhere else."

Brian Sexton

What he is implying is pretty obvious.

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there was serveall times againest lions Wingard stopped the from getting a td. in fact if it wasn't for Wingard the defense would of also had a 60,70,and 80 yd  td scored on them.  there might be a video later this week.

Dewey is a good backup, Snowie but he's limited as a starter. I like his attitude though!

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you.

This defense isn't trash. Don't get me wrong, they played like absolute dog poo Sunday, but there are good players in every section of this D. The problem is that this Coordinator is not getting the most out of the talent.

I can name 2 or 3 good players on at each level of this D. This isn't a situation where we need to blow up the D and start all over. There is a core group of guys that can be long term contributors.

Here's the Core Group that can lead this team
1. You gotta keep Smoot. (Why the hell is he only on the field for half the Defensive snaps is a damn mystery - and another reason Caldwell has to go)
2. Olukun was a great pick up.
3. Campbell has gotten so much better since his rookie year. He's nearing all pro caliber.
4. Muma was a great 3rd round grab and he's only going to get better.
5. Cisco is the man. He hits like Ronnie Lot and has the passion of him as well. Great pick up.
6. Jenkins. I know most would disagree, but I think he's a borderline guy that is worth keeping around.

That's 6 good players. Are any of them great? I could make the argument that Cisco and Campell are top 10 in their positions. The other 4 players are well above average for their position.

Finally, let me leave you with this...

Remember when Josh Allen pretty much destroyed the Buffalo Bills all by himself last year? Josh Allen has the physical gifts and football skill to be a #1 Edge Rusher. Josh Allen as the ability to be a hall of famer. You know what Josh Allen doesn't have? He doesn't have the motivation. You know who that falls on? The gosh dilly arn Coaches!!!! The coaches should be lighting a fire under Josh Allen's over pampered, Rudy Poo, Candy [BLEEP]!!!

I'm old, there used to be this thing called NFL films. Back in the day you'd see coaches get on HOF players. You'd see Bill Parcells pushing Lawrence Taylor. You'd see Bill Cowher laying into Gred Lloyd. You'd see Marty Schottenheimer getting after the late great Derrick Thomas.

Some players need to be ridden like mules. Some players don't have a fire inside them, but they have a spark that a great coach can fuel and create an inferno. Josh Allen is that type of player. He's not going to work on his own. He's not a guy with fire that will take over a team and be the catalyst. He needs a coach that's gonna kick him in the rear and focus him on the task at hand.

It's not the players that are letting down this team. There's enough here for at least a mediocre squad at the worst. But we have a coaching staff on defense that has no idea how to get the best out of our players. That's the problem here.

Letting Caldwell get another year would be a disaster. This team is on the come up, but we can't waste this time with an inferior defense just to let a green DC learn the ropes. This is the NFL. He's got his 1 year experience as an NFL DC. Now he can go to College Football and freaking learn how to actually do the job.

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We need better players.  But we have enough talent to do a lot better than we have.  Players being out of position and not knowing whom to cover is not a talent issue.

Pederson made the comment the other day in a press conference that he is not involved in the game planning for the defense.  Usually, Pederson is very careful not to say anything of much substance.  But that was a very telling comment.  I think Caldwell is in over his head.

Yeah, that was my takeaway from his interview as well.  Caldwell's fate most likely will be decided in the next 6 weeks, tho if we lay a defensive egg against Houston, he might be fired then.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

If you want my honest opinion, I think we have the makings of a good defense. I know that sounds absurd after the past few weeks but there are two main concerns that have caused the majority of our issues on that side of the ball.


Our defense gets gashed by which ever outside WR isn't being covered by Tyson Campbell, consistently. A true outside Corner opposite of Campbell is one of the biggest needs. Alternatively, a lot of the times we get gashed on other parts of the field which is typically due to a lack of pass rush.


Basically what I'm saying is we need a consistent pass rusher, and a consistant outside corner opposite of Campbell. If we can find both of these in the up coming off season I think the defense as a unit will be good enough to win games. Outside of the two glarring issues we could stand to upgrade the safety spot opposite of Cisco.


I haven't seen any of the all-22 film this season so pin pointing the specific upgrades to the pass rush wouldn't be something i'm qualified to do right now, maybe we need better interior players or maybe Walker/Allen just aren't good enough on the edge. But either way we need to generate a pass rush and we need a 2nd CB who dosen't get bullied every week.


In hind sight I wish the jaguars would have had the same gut feeling that I did going into last years draft and took Sauce Gardner. I know we likely would still be struggling at the moment due to a lack of pass rush but it would make our life a lot easier in the 2023 off season in terms of fixing up the D

Well said. There are pieces, but there is still much to be built around them.

Oluokon, Campbell are gonna be the stars. A lot of the other guys are capable, but need some time or some support to get results. We can get there.

Knowing that we have a reliable QB affords us some time to focus our early drafts and FA money elsewhere, we spent the past decade cycling through swings and misses at the most important position, which led to all the other positions gradually decaying into subpar players. Thankfully, it doesn't seem like we'll have to be pressing the reset button at QB anytime soon, it'll be exciting to see how we use that benefit to the rest of the roster's advantage.

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