In todays NFL there’s Mahomes and then the next cut.

Allen
Burrows
Lawrence
Herbert. (I don’t think he’s here, but many do)

You can make a case for any order of the second tier, personally I’d take Trevor over anyone in the second cut.  But that’s the top 5 guys to build your team around.

At this point of his career, I am thrilled beyond measure that Trevor Lawrence is in this grouping.

Oh absolutely. I think another year in Doug’s system and the Ridley addition he’ll be clearly atop the second cut pushing Mahomes. Everyone else in this list has at least 3 years in scheme and multiple pro bowlers on offense. Trevor us year 1 with none lol.

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Yea completion %'s in the 70's, 80's and even 90's is certainly lackluster lolololol

Thats my point. He was very bipolar.  He had 1 game in the 40's, and 2 games in the 50's.

The one in the 40's was all but in a tropical storm against the Eagles.

Trevor has been bad in 3 games this year. That Eagles game, the tinhorns game and the Broncos game. The rest of the games have not been the case.

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At this point of his career, I am thrilled beyond measure that Trevor Lawrence is in this grouping.

Oh absolutely. I think another year in Doug’s system and the Ridley addition he’ll be clearly atop the second cut pushing Mahomes. Everyone else in this list has at least 3 years in scheme and multiple pro bowlers on offense. Trevor us year 1 with none lol.

He's statistically ahead of Josh Allen's second year pace.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...wrTr00.htm

Josh Allen

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...tm#passing

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Oh absolutely. I think another year in Doug’s system and the Ridley addition he’ll be clearly atop the second cut pushing Mahomes. Everyone else in this list has at least 3 years in scheme and multiple pro bowlers on offense. Trevor us year 1 with none lol.

He's statistically ahead of Josh Allen's second year pace.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...wrTr00.htm

Josh Allen

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...tm#passing

If Trev keeps going at the rate that he has been, his numbers will be closer to Allen's 3rd year statistically, rather than his 2nd.

Allen was #2 in the MVP voting that year. Rodgers ran away with it though with an incredible year. 4300 passing, 48 passing TD and only 5 INT. Insane year.

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He's statistically ahead of Josh Allen's second year pace.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...wrTr00.htm

Josh Allen

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/p...tm#passing

If Trev keeps going at the rate that he has been, his numbers will be closer to Allen's 3rd year statistically, rather than his 2nd.

Allen was #2 in the MVP voting that year. Rodgers ran away with it though with an incredible year.  4300 passing, 48 passing TD and only 5 INT. Insane year.

Sadly if TL pts up similar nubers this year, even with a playoff appearance, he won't get MVP votes this year.

That said

1. It's good enough to hold over my Bills fan buddy;

2. It's enough to give me a ton of hope for the future.

I'll take that.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If Trev keeps going at the rate that he has been, his numbers will be closer to Allen's 3rd year statistically, rather than his 2nd.

Allen was #2 in the MVP voting that year. Rodgers ran away with it though with an incredible year.  4300 passing, 48 passing TD and only 5 INT. Insane year.

Sadly if TL pts up similar nubers this year, even with a playoff appearance, he won't get MVP votes this year.

Mahomes has the MVP in the bag this year. What him, Reid and that Chiefs' Offense is doing this year is down right ridiculous.

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Sadly if TL pts up similar nubers this year, even with a playoff appearance, he won't get MVP votes this year.

Mahomes has the MVP in the bag this year. What him, Reid and that Chiefs' Offense is doing this year is down right ridiculous.

If only we found a way to get Chris Jones blocked...we might have been able to score with them.

Sigh.

We'll have to find a way to knock them off in the future.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If Trev keeps going at the rate that he has been, his numbers will be closer to Allen's 3rd year statistically, rather than his 2nd.

Allen was #2 in the MVP voting that year. Rodgers ran away with it though with an incredible year.  4300 passing, 48 passing TD and only 5 INT. Insane year.

Sadly if TL pts up similar nubers this year, even with a playoff appearance, he won't get MVP votes this year.

That said

1.  It's good enough to hold over my Bills fan buddy;

2.  It's enough to give me a ton of hope for the future.

I'll take that.

Which I find stupid, MVP in my opinion should factor in how much of a difference you specifically make to your football team. Mahomes I understand but guys like Tua/Hurts are SURROUNDED by insane levels of talent and Trevor has been better than Tua and passing wise he's been as good as Hurts (Tho Hurts has those 13 rushing TDs) 

But it is what it is.

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Up to 7.  I'd put him at 6 right now over Tua but there isn't a QB in the league I'd trade him for.  Allen, Mahomes, none of them.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-we...dy-tumbles

Completely agree.  Would not trade him for anyone at this point and I get that might sound crazy to some with Allen, Mahomes and Burrow out there.

I think Mahomes is a no brainer, dudes on another planet. But I also wouldn't trade him for the others.. not because he's leagues above them but because he's been basically as good as them and is only 23.

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Cowered with a great observation. It normally takes until late November of a Qbs second year to know if they are the guy.

https://youtu.be/xSGt8IW6cG0

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Meh, emotions have nothing to do with it.  Trev has the traits to be as good or better than any of them and he is already starting  to show the clutch like he had in college or even better as he is starting to mature at the NFL level.  Josh Allen is the best QB in the league imo but I wouldn't do it

I’m not going to have this debate but it’s 100% emotional.

Glad to have Trevor!

For me cheap Trevor > Expensive Mahomes

Now if we could get Patrick on Trevor's deal? Screw aiming for the division, I want the SB.

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Cmon man. Stop making crap up to fit your narrow narrative. Many people including critics were questing Lawrence right after that Bronco game.  You keep trying to pound your chest to be proud that your right you are blinded to the facts.  Oh btw the stats also prove it.

After the Bronco game in week 8 Lawrence was looking very shaky.  Lets look at the actual facts.

After week 8 Lawrence:  10 TDs, 6 ints, while having games with completion percentages in the 40's and 50's multiple times. If you want to pretend he was always all that and there was no cause for concern the facts show otherwise.  He has turned it around but the first half of this season was lackluster by any measure.

If you seek any story, you will find it. Critics might have expressed doubt, but it wasn't outright dismissal like many here wanted to express.

Many of us saw the other throws between the misses and knew that if he could corral the bad, the good would be amazing. You're right that everyone gets that pit in their stomach whenever a top QB starts to falter, but that's when you have to dig into what you're seeing to know if it is a phase, or worse. Some of us noticed that pit in our stomach, and simply decided to hold out before chugging the mylanta. 

Some folks just choose not to look for the cloud to every silver lining, and that's ok. If you wanted to think that the sky was falling, have a blast.

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Cmon man. Stop making crap up to fit your narrow narrative. Many people including critics were questing Lawrence right after that Bronco game.  You keep trying to pound your chest to be proud that your right you are blinded to the facts.  Oh btw the stats also prove it.

After the Bronco game in week 8 Lawrence was looking very shaky.  Lets look at the actual facts.

After week 8 Lawrence:  10 TDs, 6 ints, while having games with completion percentages in the 40's and 50's multiple times. If you want to pretend he was always all that and there was no cause for concern the facts show otherwise.  He has turned it around but the first half of this season was lackluster by any measure.

But, and sorry to bring up the past, I remember a number of people say that we were 8 weeks into a new coaching staff, a new O system, a new O playbook, give him time to learn it and for Doug and Trevor to get settled and used to working with each other. This was the problem, people gave him 1 or 2 games and were ready to write him off as he didn't put up insane numbers. This is basically his rookie season after the dumpster fire of last year.

He played great against the Chargers and Colts and the whole team had a bad run of form but the way they have turned it around is impressive and it's Lawrence leading this turnaround. He's been incredible and is playing aswell as any QB in the league. Is that good enough yet?

never good enough, we just change the scapegoat from week to week. One week, it's Baalke, next it's Caldwell, then it's Allen, then it's...

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Nah.

You were just to impatient to let a young QB acclimate to a real NFL offense. Others were not - because we've seen this before and we get it.

Cmon man. Stop making crap up to fit your narrow narrative. Many people including critics were questing Lawrence right after that Bronco game.  You keep trying to pound your chest to be proud that your right you are blinded to the facts.  Oh btw the stats also prove it.

After the Bronco game in week 8 Lawrence was looking very shaky.  Lets look at the actual facts.

After week 8 Lawrence:  10 TDs, 6 ints, while having games with completion percentages in the 40's and 50's multiple times. If you want to pretend he was always all that and there was no cause for concern the facts show otherwise.  He has turned it around but the first half of this season was lackluster by any measure.

No.

I'm sorry, but you took an unwise approach to evaluating a young QB. 

Young QBs enter the league needing one, two, even three years to get comfortable  - and that is nearly as old as the league itself. 
Many of us have watched it unfold a dozen times. 

For me - TL flashed during camp and the first few games of 2021, but he was in a dysfunctional situation and it was tough to see through the fog of that. Then in game 4 or 5 vs the bengals on Thursday night, he made some throws that were clearly rare. The kind of throws elite QBs make. These were not normal "flashes." They were better than that. And he continued to mix those types of throws in through the debacle that was the Urban Error. 

I watched that horribly schemed offense trot out series after series and shoot themselves in the foot with illegal formations, false starts, and other idiotic mistakes while they dialed up poor situational play calling and they put the kid QB in a hole week after week. He was never going to properly acclimate amongst that utter [BLEEP] show. Seemed damned obvious to me. 
But the flashes were there, and those throws that transcended "flashes" were there. All of this screamed "be patient with the kid." 

This year it was readily apparent he was on a path to getting comfortable in a functional offense but wasn't quite there yet - and then he entered this weird slump of inconsistency for about 4 games - and fans like yourself went right back doubting him prematurely. My thoughts at that time were "Well, damn, maybe it's gonna take him a little longer like it did Josh Allen." 

Then he just crested the hill and started feeling good enough in the system that he could relax and focus on sound technique and making reads with the bullets flying around him. 

And that italicized part is very important. This is often the last step for performers on big stages. They have the skill set, technique and talent. But put them into an elevated environment, under pressure, under the bright lights and they will often be unable coalesce all of those elements into a calm and controlled performance. Not until they normalize the new game speed, the new demands of their scheme and playbook., the new tendencies of their various receivers, gain trust in placing anticipatory throws on an unoccupied spot on the field, etc, etc, etc

When this stuff clicks and they settle into it. They've acclimated. That's what we've seen since the Denver game. 

And yes, I've expected that this moment would come since late September of last year. Sorry that bothers you. 

And as a sidenote that has been said a kazillion times but needs a reminder: Stats don't show you any of this - and they do not predict the outcome of a young player's development. Gotta look beyond that.

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With the weather tonight, worried about fumbles. That to me is his biggest remaining concern he can work on.

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With the weather tonight, worried about fumbles. That to me is his biggest remaining concern he can work on.

That's a concern of mine, too.

Not just from Trevor Lawrence, either.

Aside from Etienne showing a propensity for fumbling, the Jaguars run a lot of end arounds, etc.  Guys who typically don't receive handoffs will be doing so in bad weather conditions...unless that particular part of the playbook will be eschewed given the conditions.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Cmon man. Stop making crap up to fit your narrow narrative. Many people including critics were questing Lawrence right after that Bronco game.  You keep trying to pound your chest to be proud that your right you are blinded to the facts.  Oh btw the stats also prove it.

After the Bronco game in week 8 Lawrence was looking very shaky.  Lets look at the actual facts.

After week 8 Lawrence:  10 TDs, 6 ints, while having games with completion percentages in the 40's and 50's multiple times. If you want to pretend he was always all that and there was no cause for concern the facts show otherwise.  He has turned it around but the first half of this season was lackluster by any measure.

If you seek any story, you will find it. Critics might have expressed doubt, but it wasn't outright dismissal like many here wanted to express.

Many of us saw the other throws between the misses and knew that if he could corral the bad, the good would be amazing. You're right that everyone gets that pit in their stomach whenever a top QB starts to falter, but that's when you have to dig into what you're seeing to know if it is a phase, or worse. Some of us noticed that pit in our stomach, and simply decided to hold out before chugging the mylanta. 

Some folks just choose not to look for the cloud to every silver lining, and that's ok. If you wanted to think that the sky was falling, have a blast.

---

But, and sorry to bring up the past, I remember a number of people say that we were 8 weeks into a new coaching staff, a new O system, a new O playbook, give him time to learn it and for Doug and Trevor to get settled and used to working with each other. This was the problem, people gave him 1 or 2 games and were ready to write him off as he didn't put up insane numbers. This is basically his rookie season after the dumpster fire of last year.

He played great against the Chargers and Colts and the whole team had a bad run of form but the way they have turned it around is impressive and it's Lawrence leading this turnaround. He's been incredible and is playing aswell as any QB in the league. Is that good enough yet?

never good enough, we just change the scapegoat from week to week. One week, it's Baalke, next it's Caldwell, then it's Allen, then it's...

That's a very good point. I get it, I do. This fan base has been beaten and was jaded and just wanted someone to come in and fix everything. Sadly most of what we tried didn't work for the last decade plus (except 2017) but there were no quick fixes or changing one or two things and suddenly we would be chasing playoffs 

Which makes what Doug and Trevor have done this year even more impressive. They've corrected so much and got this team playing with heart and effort and now we have that Franchise QB we are making those steps

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With the weather tonight, worried about fumbles. That to me is his biggest remaining concern he can work on.

That's another one that's deceiving. He's 4th in League with 9 total, but because of that outlier game in Philly he's right in the middle of the pack in fumbles per game. He doesn't really fumble a lot, he had a game where it was an issue because of the weather.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

With the weather tonight, worried about fumbles. That to me is his biggest remaining concern he can work on.

Trevor, or Etienne?

(yes)

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With the weather tonight, worried about fumbles. That to me is his biggest remaining concern he can work on.

Good thing Wilson has to play in this too.

Hopefully Muma is up to the task of playing the run well because this game is gonna be sloppy.

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"Quit pretending you knew.  You couldn't have known because... STATS!"

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With the weather tonight, worried about fumbles. That to me is his biggest remaining concern he can work on.

Good thing Wilson has to play in this too.

Hopefully Muma is up to the task of playing the run well because this game is gonna be sloppy.

I don't know what Jets fans prefer, but I think most of the national audience wants to see the #1 pick from a year ago against .

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Cmon man. Stop making crap up to fit your narrow narrative. Many people including critics were questing Lawrence right after that Bronco game.  You keep trying to pound your chest to be proud that your right you are blinded to the facts.  Oh btw the stats also prove it.

After the Bronco game in week 8 Lawrence was looking very shaky.  Lets look at the actual facts.

After week 8 Lawrence:  10 TDs, 6 ints, while having games with completion percentages in the 40's and 50's multiple times. If you want to pretend he was always all that and there was no cause for concern the facts show otherwise.  He has turned it around but the first half of this season was lackluster by any measure.

No.

I'm sorry, but you took an unwise approach to evaluating a young QB. 

Young QBs enter the league needing one, two, even three years to get comfortable  - and that is nearly as old as the league itself. 
Many of us have watched it unfold a dozen times. 

For me - TL flashed during camp and the first few games of 2021, but he was in a dysfunctional situation and it was tough to see through the fog of that. Then in game 4 or 5 vs the bengals on Thursday night, he made some throws that were clearly rare. The kind of throws elite QBs make. These were not normal "flashes." They were better than that. And he continued to mix those types of throws in through the debacle that was the Urban Error. 

I watched that horribly schemed offense trot out series after series and shoot themselves in the foot with illegal formations, false starts, and other idiotic mistakes while they dialed up poor situational play calling and they put the kid QB in a hole week after week. He was never going to properly acclimate amongst that utter [BLEEP] show. Seemed damned obvious to me. 
But the flashes were there, and those throws that transcended "flashes" were there. All of this screamed "be patient with the kid." 

This year it was readily apparent he was on a path to getting comfortable in a functional offense but wasn't quite there yet - and then he entered this weird slump of inconsistency for about 4 games - and fans like yourself went right back doubting him prematurely. My thoughts at that time were "Well, damn, maybe it's gonna take him a little longer like it did Josh Allen." 

Then he just crested the hill and started feeling good enough in the system that he could relax and focus on sound technique and making reads with the bullets flying around him. 

And that italicized part is very important. This is often the last step for performers on big stages. They have the skill set, technique and talent. But put them into an elevated environment, under pressure, under the bright lights and they will often be unable coalesce all of those elements into a calm and controlled performance until they normalize the new game speed, the new demands of their scheme and playbook., the new tendencies of their various receivers, gain trust in placing anticipatory throws on an unoccupied spot on the field, etc, etc, etc

When this stuff clicks and they settle into it. They've acclimated. That's what we've seen since the Denver game. 

And yes, I've expected that this moment would come since late September of last year. Sorry that bothers you. 

And as a sidenote that has been said a kazillion times but needs a reminder: Stats don't show you any of this - and they do not predict the outcome of a young player's development. Gotta look beyond that.

Well, said.  My biggest concern with Trevor was does he take things for granted?  He was always the best player on the field on good teams going back to junior high, and I couldn't help but wonder how much of that was due to the work and study, and how much was just being the most physically gifted.  Seems the answer to whether the work ethic was there was answered pretty quickly in spite of Urban.
But then I had to wonder, how does he handle adversity?  He's barely had to deal with any in years.  Even when he finally gets it together and starts playing towards his potential, is he a front-runner?  How does he deal with adversity during games?  Dang if hasn't answered those questions very loudly already!  

Man o man, has he exceeded my expectations for this season already!  And to think, he's actually going to continue to improve over the next few years!!  I'm a bit giddy over the thought.

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