I don't love leaving Cleveland on the bench.  We need to get Fortner off the field.  Between Shereff, Little, and Cleveland, one of them should be able to snap the ball.

That would be SMRT

I don't think any of them have experience at the position. Even with a bye week, that's some big expectations that this wouldn't end poorly playing a team like the niners.

SHatley is now the backup center. He'll be rested since he's not filling the vacuum left by Bartch.

Shatley and Fortner are similar at their position, stick with the young guy for now, maybe the light bulb flicks on.

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This looks to me like Fortner was pulling around behind Shatley and expecting him to block down on Bryan. Shatley actually has the better angle to make a solid block on Bryan.

If Shatley had blocked down allowing Fortner to be the lead blocker down field, there was a huge hole, and if Scherff didn't whiff on blocking #53, that might have turned into a big play with only the safety being between the RB and the end zone.

Bryan is the NT on this play. My guess is the blocking assignment would have been based on where Bryan lines up.

My guess at what the blocking assignment was supposed to be is that if Bryan lines up straight on or shaded to Fortner's right, then Fortner's assignment would be to block Bryan and Shatley's assignment would be to move to the second level and take on a LB.

But if Bryan lines up on Fortner's left, then Shatley's assignment would be to block down on  Bryan and Fortner's assignment would be to let Shatley cross in front of him to take Bryan and swing around behind him and move up field to take on a LB.

Definite miscommunication between the two, but my money is on Shatley screwing up a blocking assignment which he was supposed to adjust based on where the NT lined up. 

The way Fortner moves on the play makes it pretty obvious he was expecting Shatley to cross in front of him to make the block on Bryan, and where Bryan is lined up it makes much more sense for Shatley to be the one that blocks Bryan.

It's a designed run to the left. With the lineman all tasked with pulling and flowing the line of play towards that side to get the runner isolated on the parameter with what I would imagine a LB or CB on a successful blocking effort up front. It's five lineman there Vs. just a base three front. It was pretty clear how it was supposed to be blocked. 

RT gets LE
C gets DT/NT
LT gets RE

LG and RG were working their way up towards the 2nd level to get after the LB's. Fortner [BLEEP] the bed, completely whiffed his block and allowed it to get blown the [BLEEP] up. Fortner was already trying to drive his body to the left before he actually got his hands on his defender, anchored in and initiated the block.

It's piss poor technique continuing to show up on film with this kid. Look how low his hands are after the snap. He let Bryan get his hands inside his chest before he could even get his hands up from his waist. Look where his head was at. The body goes where the head goes. He was out of position and thinking run before block. I have seen enough. 

I think he needs to be moved to RG next year to compete for a starting job against Scherff maybe but we need to draft a viable replacement at Center. Such as Van Pran out of Georgia or Frazier out of West Viriginia at this point. I don't completely fault Fortner for his shortcomings as an NFL Center. He only had one year of starting experience at Center during his last year at Kentucky and prior to that he had been a full time guard for the previous four years. 

This is clearly a combination of failures. Failure in evaluations and trajectory by the personnel department. Failure on the player to improve in the off season. Failure on the coaching staff for not addressing this as a clear elephant in the room.

If the run is supposed to go inside of Harrison (which I'd hope, because he lets his guy get upfield blocking off a run to his outside), then it makes more sense for Shatley to block Bryan on the play.  If Fortner is responsible for Bryan, he's just going to block him towards Harrison's inside which will shrink the hole the RB has to run through.  If Shatley moves to block Bryan, it (with a good block) will keep that hole wide and allow Fortner to run through to the second level and block the guy Shatley ended up blocking.

There's a clear miscommunication, but I don't see how Fortner having to block left towards the only hole the RB would have to run through is a wise blocking scheme if that's how it was supposed to be.  Shatley blocking right with a pulling Fortner keeps hole wider while allowing a lineman to get to the second level.  I also don't think you can really critique his technique on this play in particular since it appears he was preparing to pull, and not block Bryan.  Not at all saying he's been good in that area overall, just don't think you can make a judgement on this play specifically.

Fully agree though that we need to find a viable replacement in the offseason, regardless of how Fortner plays the rest of the season.

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I don't love leaving Cleveland on the bench.  We need to get Fortner off the field.  Between Shereff, Little, and Cleveland, one of them should be able to snap the ball.

It ain't that simple unfortunately

Daryl Williams and Tyler Shatley are the only others really qualified on the roster

Shatley is only an eyelash better than Fortner this year and we've only seen Williams vs scrubs in second halves of preseason games.

Yeah I understand.  It's not high school.  If you don't already have hundreds of live snaps at center when you get out of college you'll probably never be ready to be center against live competition in the NFL.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

It's a designed run to the left. With the lineman all tasked with pulling and flowing the line of play towards that side to get the runner isolated on the parameter with what I would imagine a LB or CB on a successful blocking effort up front. It's five lineman there Vs. just a base three front. It was pretty clear how it was supposed to be blocked. 

RT gets LE
C gets DT/NT
LT gets RE

LG and RG were working their way up towards the 2nd level to get after the LB's. Fortner [BLEEP] the bed, completely whiffed his block and allowed it to get blown the [BLEEP] up. Fortner was already trying to drive his body to the left before he actually got his hands on his defender, anchored in and initiated the block.

It's piss poor technique continuing to show up on film with this kid. Look how low his hands are after the snap. He let Bryan get his hands inside his chest before he could even get his hands up from his waist. Look where his head was at. The body goes where the head goes. He was out of position and thinking run before block. I have seen enough. 

I think he needs to be moved to RG next year to compete for a starting job against Scherff maybe but we need to draft a viable replacement at Center. Such as Van Pran out of Georgia or Frazier out of West Viriginia at this point. I don't completely fault Fortner for his shortcomings as an NFL Center. He only had one year of starting experience at Center during his last year at Kentucky and prior to that he had been a full time guard for the previous four years. 

This is clearly a combination of failures. Failure in evaluations and trajectory by the personnel department. Failure on the player to improve in the off season. Failure on the coaching staff for not addressing this as a clear elephant in the room.

If the run is supposed to go inside of Harrison (which I'd hope, because he lets his guy get upfield blocking off a run to his outside), then it makes more sense for Shatley to block Bryan on the play.  If Fortner is responsible for Bryan, he's just going to block him towards Harrison's inside which will shrink the hole the RB has to run through.  If Shatley moves to block Bryan, it (with a good block) will keep that hole wide and allow Fortner to run through to the second level and block the guy Shatley ended up blocking.

There's a clear miscommunication, but I don't see how Fortner having to block left towards the only hole the RB would have to run through is a wise blocking scheme if that's how it was supposed to be.  Shatley blocking right with a pulling Fortner keeps hole wider while allowing a lineman to get to the second level.  I also don't think you can really critique his technique on this play in particular since it appears he was preparing to pull, and not block Bryan.  Not at all saying he's been good in that area overall, just don't think you can make a judgement on this play specifically.

Fully agree though that we need to find a viable replacement in the offseason, regardless of how Fortner plays the rest of the season.

The play is going to the left, not the right. Harrison letting up on his defender to play backside pursuit is smart because him holding that point there does nobody any good other than potentially exposing himself to the stripes for a holding call or some form of penalty. 

If Fortner did his job, the LE and NT/DT are completely blanketed out of this run design. As, again, it's flowing to the left which would fall on Robinson holding his edge against the RE and it would be up to Shatley and Scherff, which they were in the process of doing, of, trying to hit the 2nd level of the defense to block the LB's on the play. 

Instead of getting knocked back for a TFL? They may have had a shot at maybe a 3 - 5 yard gain. I cannot see on that clip where the WR was at on his blocking assignment but I can see Shatley and Scherff at least trying to do their job. The most glaring and obvious call out on that play?

It's Fortner being off balance, out of position and getting whooped for poor technique. It's a combination of a lot of things. Communication, etc. For me though, the most glaring standout is Fortner's sloppiness while the guards were clearly on the same page of getting downfield against a 3 man front to hit the LB's with a designed run to the left.

And, again, if it IS communication being an issue? That's on Fortner. It's the center's responsibility to call out assignments and reiterate the plan of attack on that play. There's a disconnect virtually every game with Fortner at some point. He's not good enough at this level. The amount of pressures he's given up already in eight games is rough.

Not sure if he's been flagged a lot but he also has an issue holding his point and is simply not strong enough at times to create any lanes in the running game. This is something Lageman stressed late last year and earlier this year. He called him out for needing to get stronger in the off season in the weight room and at his technique.

He's a 3rd RD pick. I cited my concerns earlier with him. I think you at least give him a shot at RG next year.

Maybe just focusing on one side of the line instead of being responsible for holding the middle down with the assignments plus snapping the ball, getting his head up and hands up quickly will bode well for him. His job is tougher than it looks. People don't realize it until it's glaringly obvious.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

If the run is supposed to go inside of Harrison (which I'd hope, because he lets his guy get upfield blocking off a run to his outside), then it makes more sense for Shatley to block Bryan on the play.  If Fortner is responsible for Bryan, he's just going to block him towards Harrison's inside which will shrink the hole the RB has to run through.  If Shatley moves to block Bryan, it (with a good block) will keep that hole wide and allow Fortner to run through to the second level and block the guy Shatley ended up blocking.

There's a clear miscommunication, but I don't see how Fortner having to block left towards the only hole the RB would have to run through is a wise blocking scheme if that's how it was supposed to be.  Shatley blocking right with a pulling Fortner keeps hole wider while allowing a lineman to get to the second level.  I also don't think you can really critique his technique on this play in particular since it appears he was preparing to pull, and not block Bryan.  Not at all saying he's been good in that area overall, just don't think you can make a judgement on this play specifically.

Fully agree though that we need to find a viable replacement in the offseason, regardless of how Fortner plays the rest of the season.

The play is going to the left, not the right. Harrison letting up on his defender to play backside pursuit is smart because him holding that point there does nobody any good other than potentially exposing himself to the stripes for a holding call or some form of penalty. 

If Fortner did his job, the LE and NT/DT are completely blanketed out of this run design. As, again, it's flowing to the left which would fall on Robinson holding his edge against the RE and it would be up to Shatley and Scherff, which they were in the process of doing, of, trying to hit the 2nd level of the defense to block the LB's on the play. 

Instead of getting knocked back for a TFL? They may have had a shot at maybe a 3 - 5 yard gain. I cannot see on that clip where the WR was at on his blocking assignment but I can see Shatley and Scherff at least trying to do their job. The most glaring and obvious call out on that play?

It's Fortner being off balance, out of position and getting whooped for poor technique. It's a combination of a lot of things. Communication, etc. For me though, the most glaring standout is Fortner's sloppiness while the guards were clearly on the same page of getting downfield against a 3 man front to hit the LB's with a designed run to the left.

And, again, if it IS communication being an issue? That's on Fortner. It's the center's responsibility to call out assignments and reiterate the plan of attack on that play. There's a disconnect virtually every game with Fortner at some point. He's not good enough at this level. The amount of pressures he's given up already in eight games is rough.

Not sure if he's been flagged a lot but he also has an issue holding his point and is simply not strong enough at times to create any lanes in the running game. This is something Lageman stressed late last year and earlier this year. He called him out for needing to get stronger in the off season in the weight room and at his technique.

He's a 3rd RD pick. I cited my concerns earlier with him. I think you at least give him a shot at RG next year.

Maybe just focusing on one side of the line instead of being responsible for holding the middle down with the assignments plus snapping the ball, getting his head up and hands up quickly will bode well for him. His job is tougher than it looks. People don't realize it until it's glaringly obvious.

I'm not sure what you are seeing, but there is a huge hole if Shatley blocks down on Bryan. tThe play is designed to run between the left guard and tackle. 

You are leaving Fortner with the impossible task of blocking a guy who is lined up between him and where the play is designed to go.

Blocking assignments change based on where people actually line up. It's obvious in this situation that Fortner was expecting Shatley to block down on Bryan, and if Shatley had done that there would have been a huge hole to run through.

For what ever reason, Shatley didn't realize that he was in the best position to make a block that would spring open the play. The only logical reason for Shatley to not make the block on Bryan would be that he thought or was expecting Bryan to stunt to the inside putting Fortner in the best position to make an effective block on Bryan. Unfortunately Bryan wasn't stunting inside and was protecting the gap between the center and guard which would leave Shatley in the best position to block Bryan.

Either way, Fortner and Shatley were definitely not on the same page.

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Doug has some connections with Jason Kelce. I think he needs to hit him up and ask him to mentor Fortner in the offseason.
On Kelce's podcast it seems like their oline really gels together and I don't get that feeling from our team. Maybe it could help them all.

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Doug has some connections with Jason Kelce. I think he needs to hit him up and ask him to mentor Fortner in the offseason.
On Kelce's podcast it seems like their oline really gels together and I don't get that feeling from our team. Maybe it could help them all.

If we had Kelce on this team in think we would take the SB.  We still have a shot but our odds would go upnbig time.  The best player at his position to our weakest position

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Coy Cronk signed to Minnesota practice squad.

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Respect the game.  Play with a sense of urgency. 


1.)  Take care of the ball.  Win the turnover battle.

2.)  It's all about 3rd down.  Win on 3rd down to win the game.

3.) Playmakers make plays.  The only reason that you put your uniform on is to make plays. In order to EARN your paycheck, you must make plays.  

Learn from the great collapse of 2023.  

https://twitter.com/DanHicken/status/172...13458?s=20

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Offensive Line not blocking seems to be main culprit. Doug/Press dumbing down the playbook to get passes out before defense is on top of Trevor, causing receivers to not have time to run longer routes or let Trevor have a moment to make a better decision.

Oline = no bueno

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Freaking frustrating

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Offensive Line not blocking seems to be main culprit. Doug/Press dumbing down the playbook to get passes out before defense is on top of Trevor, causing receivers to not have time to run longer routes or let Trevor have a moment to make a better decision.

Oline = no bueno

Everything about the offensive struggles come down to linemen who can't block. They can't run the middle, they can't run outside, they can't play pass, and they can't long drop. They can 3 step and if the ball isn't out then the play is over. They can run if ETN makes some really good play that overcomes the lack of blocking. It's just frustrating to watch them get mauled over and over and know it won't get better. It'd why the offense works in spurts and prevents any kind of real rhythm.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Agreed with the post above, it all starts from very bad OL play. It impacts the lack of a consistent run game, ability to wait for downfield windows to open, playcalling and all that.

It's not a coincidence the 5 games winning streak came with us trailing for just 7 minutes total I think thanks to very good defense giving us short fields, covering up offense mistakes and exploiting bad opposing QBs play (looking at you Ridder, Pickett/Trubisky, Carr).

It doesn't help that the coaching staff sometimes still doesn't keep it simple, see short yardage situations or RZ stuff.

Yesterday SF approached the game just like the Chargers did in the first half against us in that playoff game with the difference that the 49ers have a much much better front and LBs.

First 3 sacks last night were a good exemple:
-1st one we have 3 receivers outside on the right, SF DBs were all over them completely covered, as soon as Trevor turns to middle of the field where Strange is coming open (but to likely get tackled way short of the first down) the interior of Oline has folded and he's sacked.
-2nd drive of the game it's likely a busted screen, rusher coming unblocked from the right side and Trevor is downed in less than a second
-3rd sack comes on the decision to go empty formation, there's absolutely nothing opened downfield and both Bosa and Young destroy our OTs to both sack Trevor easily.

Not saying we have a terrible team but this offense has structural issues that are hard to fix in season. Sometimes you get away with it, sometimes you don't but it's hard to find rhythm and consistency.

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The OLine just got overwhelmed and manhandled, repeatedly. Trevor never got comfortable throwing the ball, and running lanes inside were largely non-existent. I hope getting Cleveland into the lineup has some positive impact, as they can not stand pat as is.

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The OLine just got overwhelmed and manhandled, repeatedly.  Trevor never got comfortable throwing the ball, and running lanes inside were largely non-existent.  I hope getting Cleveland into the lineup has some positive impact, as they can not stand pat as is.

A few of those shots that ETN took at the line made me wince. The SF front 4 just mauled our linemen and Warner was free to just sit there like a missle waiting to destroy the guy.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Hargrave was whooping Little on Sunday.
https://twitter.com/nwagoner/status/1724209516450025914

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Hargrave was whooping Little on Sunday.
https://twitter.com/nwagoner/status/1724209516450025914

Wonder how easy that makes the decision to play Ezra at LG?

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Hargrave was whooping Little on Sunday.
https://twitter.com/nwagoner/status/1724209516450025914

Wonder how easy that makes the decision to play Ezra at LG?

He was active and didn't see the field right?

I'm not sure it happens since the rest of the line hasn't changed.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

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Wonder how easy that makes the decision to play Ezra at LG?

He was active and didn't see the field right?

I'm not sure it happens since the rest of the line hasn't changed.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

A. Ezra , like Little , is also coming off an injury - could be a factor
B. Ezra actually plays LG in the NFL - while Little was thrust there because Bartch and Shatley failed so badly
C. It would not be a surprise with this staff (IMO) if they wanted E. Cleveland to have another week to learn the blocking scheme, calls, signals etc.  
D.The line has changed at LT and at LG this year.

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https://x.com/J5_Sports1/status/17244767...25685?s=20

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