He does. He's one of the first one's up in arms actually during the gameday threads. There's a lot of fair and balanced posters on here. It may not seem like that, but, they do exist here. He was pissed off about that pass Lawrence sailed to Hamlin just like the rest of us.

I honestly do not see anymore Lawrence purists on here like I did a few years ago back in 2021, 2022. There's not very many people claiming Lawrence can do no wrong, and that, he's without any fault.

A lot of us are coming to the sobering reality, that, he may very well be fundamentally broken at this point, and a lot of that goes back to the offensive line failing him and getting him potentially shell shocked from the beatings he took and injuries he sustained last year.

His pocket awareness has noticeably been off this year already and I think the staff is partly to blame. They're asking him to do more things from under center, something he rarely ever did during his first three years here, and hardly ever did at Clemson, if at all.

They have really dialed back or scaled back a lot of the designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and RPO's from what we saw in 2022 when they got hot. They have a lot to fix and address collectively. Falls on the staff and Lawrence's shoulders. For sure.

His pocket awareness has been terrible this year compared to the first three.  But it doesn't seem to be related to being under center.  He's lost track of time in both formations equally.
It's him looking for big plays while also trying to avoid interceptions.

I recall the Texans putting in an alarm for David Carr that rang after three seconds, indicating that the ball should have been thrown before the alarm went off... It didn't seem to work.  Counter to some of the talk around here, David Carr didn't get broken because of the pressure.  He, self-admittedly, didn't understand how much work a QB must put in to get ready for a game.  He used to take the game-film 'home' rather than staying at the facility and working with his QB coach on it.  Carr admitted that he didn't realize how much work it took until he was the backup to Eli Manning.  In fact he used to run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, much to the chagrin of his offensive line, to avoid an incomplete pass that would have affected his passer rating.

Carr had an amazing arm, but he had no ability to throw a wide receiver open.  He couldn't diagnose a defense to save his life, and the only thing that that kept him on the roster is because he would throw a wide-receiver screen to Andre Johnson if the CB backed off or he would dump the pass off 6 yards down the field to Dominic Davis.

The point of all this, is that despite all of his physical tools, he never had the intangibles to make him worth the #1 pick.

---

NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

You're one of the biggest TL stan there is I've noticed.

You're dying on that hill too - which I appreciate, BUT.... how come you never bring the plays where he flat out misses guys wide open?

He does. He's one of the first one's up in arms actually during the gameday threads. There's a lot of fair and balanced posters on here. It may not seem like that, but, they do exist here. He was pissed off about that pass Lawrence sailed to Hamlin just like the rest of us.

I honestly do not see anymore Lawrence purists on here like I did a few years ago back in 2021, 2022. There's not very many people claiming Lawrence can do no wrong, and that, he's without any fault.

A lot of us are coming to the sobering reality, that, he may very well be fundamentally broken at this point, and a lot of that goes back to the offensive line failing him and getting him potentially shell shocked from the beatings he took and injuries he sustained last year.

His pocket awareness has noticeably been off this year already and I think the staff is partly to blame. They're asking him to do more things from under center, something he rarely ever did during his first three years here, and hardly ever did at Clemson, if at all.

They have really dialed back or scaled back a lot of the designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and RPO's from what we saw in 2022 when they got hot. They have a lot to fix and address collectively. Falls on the staff and Lawrence's shoulders. For sure.

He gets more than his fair share of drive killing drops and missed assignments on the o-line that it magnifies his own mistakes when he makes them.  That and being put in negative game script from the outset.  It's not really fair to him because QBs do miss from time to time, but he is not afforded that margin of error because there are too many other errors all over the place and because he played poorly on a high ankle sprain at the end of last year and now has an eye opening personal losing streak.

Sometimes good teams start slow.  The Philip Rivers Chargers of yesteryear routinely would have one of the best teams on paper and just couldn't get out of their own way in September consistently for many years.  Hopefully that's what's afflicting us this year and we get back on track over the next several weeks.  I'm not worried about Trevor.  He's not "broken" per se.  There was at least one instance that he felt phantom pressure when it wasn't there last game probably because of how often we see pressure get to him faster than it should, but get the line to perform better and that will go away and efficiency will increase. Things don't have to be perfect around him, but they do have to be better than what we've gotten the past two games.

---

His pocket awareness has been terrible this year compared to the first three.  But it doesn't seem to be related to being under center.  He's lost track of time in both formations equally.
It's him looking for big plays while also trying to avoid interceptions.

He's pressing because he's got to play hero ball, it just slows everything down

this right here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

---

Fix the O-Line!

Are you having trouble reading today? Here are two sentences from the post you replied to that might help you:

"As I've said he's horrible this year no arguments there. He is playing as a bottom tier QB and has earned a lot of blame"

"Trevor might be a problem to address as well but by nature of football and how the game works the first has got to get corrected. I agree there are no excuses for the fumbles/missing basic layup passes ect ect that is all Trevor."

I did read all your post by the way, but you just said football starts on the trenches and the lines for a QB to be successful, so why are we not seeing results from Trevor when they DO play at times like an NFL oline?

Yes, all plays are dependent on blocking to be successful. Just because the play is blocked well doesn't mean it will be successful.... The times where the play is blocked well and WRs do their job and it's not a bad call from the start that obviously falls on Trevor, such as making bad passes or bad reads..... 

We're "not seeing results from Trevor when they DO play at times like an NFL oline" because Trevor is playing horrible.

I'm not sure how else I can write it for you?

---

His pocket awareness has been terrible this year compared to the first three.  But it doesn't seem to be related to being under center.  He's lost track of time in both formations equally.
It's him looking for big plays while also trying to avoid interceptions.

I recall the Texans putting in an alarm for David Carr that rang after three seconds, indicating that the ball should have been thrown before the alarm went off... It didn't seem to work.  Counter to some of the talk around here, David Carr didn't get broken because of the pressure.  He, self-admittedly, didn't understand how much work a QB must put in to get ready for a game.  He used to take the game-film 'home' rather than staying at the facility and working with his QB coach on it.  Carr admitted that he didn't realize how much work it took until he was the backup to Eli Manning.  In fact he used to run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, much to the chagrin of his offensive line, to avoid an incomplete pass that would have affected his passer rating.

Carr had an amazing arm, but he had no ability to throw a wide receiver open.  He couldn't diagnose a defense to save his life, and the only thing that that kept him on the roster is because he would throw a wide-receiver screen to Andre Johnson if the CB backed off or he would dump the pass off 6 yards down the field to Dominic Davis.

The point of all this, is that despite all of his physical tools, he never had the intangibles to make him worth the #1 pick.

Good assessment. I am seeing the same things with Trevor. He has the tools but it does not translate into results. He is seeing Ghost in the pocket. The truth is I hope it can be fixed but I dont' know. The two good things Trevor has for him is he is very talented and very young. It maybe one of those cases where he may need to ride the bench a couple of years and then resurrect his career. We have 14 games left to see if Lawrence can bounce back or not.

---

Any one of us would be seeing ghosts too if we had an OL this shady.

Trevor at least is open about what he needs to improve on. But again, this isn't a 1-man offense. Blockers have to block and not whiff. Catchers have to catch and not drop. Runners have to run and not dance.

Once the entire offense is in sync, plays and scores will show up. And all that comes down to the coaching all around to get their players prepared.

---

I recall the Texans putting in an alarm for David Carr that rang after three seconds, indicating that the ball should have been thrown before the alarm went off... It didn't seem to work.  Counter to some of the talk around here, David Carr didn't get broken because of the pressure.  He, self-admittedly, didn't understand how much work a QB must put in to get ready for a game.  He used to take the game-film 'home' rather than staying at the facility and working with his QB coach on it.  Carr admitted that he didn't realize how much work it took until he was the backup to Eli Manning.  In fact he used to run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, much to the chagrin of his offensive line, to avoid an incomplete pass that would have affected his passer rating.

Carr had an amazing arm, but he had no ability to throw a wide receiver open.  He couldn't diagnose a defense to save his life, and the only thing that that kept him on the roster is because he would throw a wide-receiver screen to Andre Johnson if the CB backed off or he would dump the pass off 6 yards down the field to Dominic Davis.

The point of all this, is that despite all of his physical tools, he never had the intangibles to make him worth the #1 pick.

Good assessment. I am seeing the same things with Trevor. He has the tools but it does not translate into results. He is seeing Ghost in the pocket. The truth is I hope it can be fixed but I dont' know. The two good things Trevor has for him is he is very talented and very young. It maybe one of those cases where he may need to ride the bench a couple of years and then resurrect his career. We have 14 games left to see if Lawrence can bounce back or not.

Don't really want to bring this up again, but due to the contract you have 48 games left--short of having the highest paid backup QB. If it were my decision and Trevor continues with mediocre stats through 2024, I'd have to look at Doug Pederson's offense and QB development and call it failed.  The only way to go forward is to bring in a QB friendly Head Coach/Coordinator, and spend tons of money and draft picks on the offensive line to make this a run-first team.  Heck with the way it's been going so far, I'd put the Vikings offensive coordinator near the top of the list.  The fact that he's making (formerly failed) Darnold look like a top 10 QB would make him high on my list.

---

NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

I recall the Texans putting in an alarm for David Carr that rang after three seconds, indicating that the ball should have been thrown before the alarm went off... It didn't seem to work.  Counter to some of the talk around here, David Carr didn't get broken because of the pressure.  He, self-admittedly, didn't understand how much work a QB must put in to get ready for a game.  He used to take the game-film 'home' rather than staying at the facility and working with his QB coach on it.  Carr admitted that he didn't realize how much work it took until he was the backup to Eli Manning.  In fact he used to run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage, much to the chagrin of his offensive line, to avoid an incomplete pass that would have affected his passer rating.

Carr had an amazing arm, but he had no ability to throw a wide receiver open.  He couldn't diagnose a defense to save his life, and the only thing that that kept him on the roster is because he would throw a wide-receiver screen to Andre Johnson if the CB backed off or he would dump the pass off 6 yards down the field to Dominic Davis.

The point of all this, is that despite all of his physical tools, he never had the intangibles to make him worth the #1 pick.

Good assessment. I am seeing the same things with Trevor. He has the tools but it does not translate into results. He is seeing Ghost in the pocket. The truth is I hope it can be fixed but I dont' know. The two good things Trevor has for him is he is very talented and very young. It maybe one of those cases where he may need to ride the bench a couple of years and then resurrect his career. We have 14 games left to see if Lawrence can bounce back or not.

It's the opposite though. He's not looking for screens or being given screens, and, he's not Captain Checkdown neither. He's looking for the big play downfield on every play instead of taking what's there. I have heard Orlovsky bring this up recently, as well as Campo. I think Pederson and a few other people mentioned this last year. He doesn't want to nickel and dime a defense to the endzone. He wants to chuck the [BLEEP] deep on every play. 

It's the funniest thing really. I still think the coaching staff should be incorporating designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and sprint's to give him easier reads and money plays like we saw in 2022. I have noticed that this offense doesn't call screens, at all. I don't think I have seen a single screen play yet in three weeks to a RB, WR or TE. They really need to find a balance of what they did in 2022, 2023 and what they want to do that's new in 2024. 

That's really where I think most of our solutions will be found. Trevor likes the deep ball. We get that. So, you need to get trips bunch sets working from left to right (with him rolling right) to where he has BTJ going deep post, Davis going medium to deep in route and a safety valve in either hitting Kirk on a drag or slant or being able to look right in front of him at an HB or TE to pick-up something. 

Do it until the defense stops it once and then go back to something else. I just keep seeing the same [BLEEP] sometimes too many times in a row instead of a nice mix up or balance. It could be that this offensive staff is waiting on Trevor to simply "see it" and that's why they don't want to change anything up or move too much around. They're not going to say that [BLEEP] out loud though directly.

---

"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

Good assessment. I am seeing the same things with Trevor. He has the tools but it does not translate into results. He is seeing Ghost in the pocket. The truth is I hope it can be fixed but I dont' know. The two good things Trevor has for him is he is very talented and very young. It maybe one of those cases where he may need to ride the bench a couple of years and then resurrect his career. We have 14 games left to see if Lawrence can bounce back or not.

Don't really want to bring this up again, but due to the contract you have 48 games left--short of having the highest paid backup QB. If it were my decision and Trevor continues with mediocre stats through 2024, I'd have to look at Doug Pederson's offense and QB development and call it failed.  The only way to go forward is to bring in a QB friendly Head Coach/Coordinator, and spend tons of money and draft picks on the offensive line to make this a run-first team.  Heck with the way it's been going so far, I'd put the Vikings offensive coordinator near the top of the list.  The fact that he's making (formerly failed) Darnold look like a top 10 QB would make him high on my list.

Yea that contract is just a final dagger put into the franchise by Baalke. We may have to build an old school run heavy offense to mask Trevor and limit his throws.  He is just too damn inconsistent letting him rip it 30+ times a game.

---

Good assessment. I am seeing the same things with Trevor. He has the tools but it does not translate into results. He is seeing Ghost in the pocket. The truth is I hope it can be fixed but I dont' know. The two good things Trevor has for him is he is very talented and very young. It maybe one of those cases where he may need to ride the bench a couple of years and then resurrect his career. We have 14 games left to see if Lawrence can bounce back or not.

It's the opposite though. He's not looking for screens or being given screens, and, he's not Captain Checkdown neither. He's looking for the big play downfield on every play instead of taking what's there. I have heard Orlovsky bring this up recently, as well as Campo. I think Pederson and a few other people mentioned this last year. He doesn't want to nickel and dime a defense to the endzone. He wants to chuck the [BLEEP] deep on every play. 

It's the funniest thing really. I still think the coaching staff should be incorporating designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and sprint's to give him easier reads and money plays like we saw in 2022. I have noticed that this offense doesn't call screens, at all. I don't think I have seen a single screen play yet in three weeks to a RB, WR or TE. They really need to find a balance of what they did in 2022, 2023 and what they want to do that's new in 2024. 

That's really where I think most of our solutions will be found. Trevor likes the deep ball. We get that. So, you need to get trips bunch sets working from left to right (with him rolling right) to where he has BTJ going deep post, Davis going medium to deep in route and a safety valve in either hitting Kirk on a drag or slant or being able to look right in front of him at an HB or TE to pick-up something. 

Do it until the defense stops it once and then go back to something else. I just keep seeing the same [BLEEP] sometimes too many times in a row instead of a nice mix up or balance. It could be that this offensive staff is waiting on Trevor to simply "see it" and that's why they don't want to change anything up or move too much around. They're not going to say that [BLEEP] out loud though directly.

I get the coaching and the play calling is an issue but lets focus on EXECUTION.  When Trevor has the open man he too often either misses the pass or throws it to the wrong man.  Regardless of what he wants to do it's not working. Coaches can tell a QB a million times what the correct thing to do but the QB has to do it.  QB's make their living on passes less than 20 yards.  Lawrence struggles with ball placement, accuracy, touch, wrong reads just way too often for a "star" QB in his 4th year.  Josh Allen on Monday night looked like an NFL QB while Lawrence looked like a Jacksonville Shark QB. Also real QB's elevate the team around them.  Brady did far more with far less.  Lawrence is paid and looked at one of those elite QB but HIS PLAY is not living up to it.

---

It's the opposite though. He's not looking for screens or being given screens, and, he's not Captain Checkdown neither. He's looking for the big play downfield on every play instead of taking what's there. I have heard Orlovsky bring this up recently, as well as Campo. I think Pederson and a few other people mentioned this last year. He doesn't want to nickel and dime a defense to the endzone. He wants to chuck the [BLEEP] deep on every play. 

It's the funniest thing really. I still think the coaching staff should be incorporating designed QB rollout's, bootleg's and sprint's to give him easier reads and money plays like we saw in 2022. I have noticed that this offense doesn't call screens, at all. I don't think I have seen a single screen play yet in three weeks to a RB, WR or TE. They really need to find a balance of what they did in 2022, 2023 and what they want to do that's new in 2024. 

That's really where I think most of our solutions will be found. Trevor likes the deep ball. We get that. So, you need to get trips bunch sets working from left to right (with him rolling right) to where he has BTJ going deep post, Davis going medium to deep in route and a safety valve in either hitting Kirk on a drag or slant or being able to look right in front of him at an HB or TE to pick-up something. 

Do it until the defense stops it once and then go back to something else. I just keep seeing the same [BLEEP] sometimes too many times in a row instead of a nice mix up or balance. It could be that this offensive staff is waiting on Trevor to simply "see it" and that's why they don't want to change anything up or move too much around. They're not going to say that [BLEEP] out loud though directly.

I get the coaching and the play calling is an issue but lets focus on EXECUTION.  When Trevor has the open man he too often either misses the pass or throws it to the wrong man.  Regardless of what he wants to do it's not working. Coaches can tell a QB a million times what the correct thing to do but the QB has to do it.  QB's make their living on passes less than 20 yards.  Lawrence struggles with ball placement, accuracy, touch, wrong reads just way too often for a "star" QB in his 4th year.  Josh Allen on Monday night looked like an NFL QB while Lawrence looked like a Jacksonville Shark QB. Also real QB's elevate the team around them.  Brady did far more with far less.  Lawrence is paid and looked at one of those elite QB but HIS PLAY is not living up to it.

1. At any point in the NFL there are maybe 2-3 QB's that "elevate the play" of the offense no matter what the offense consistently. He has had flashes which a lot of quarterbacks will have. I'm sorry he is not going to be a no doubt HoF QB no matter what. That doesn't mean he cannot be a Super Bowl winning QB. Not all those guys have to be HoF's.

2. The players you are comparing Lawrence to are like true vets. Josh Allen is 28yo and in his 7th year and finally not doing stupid TOs. The Tom Brady you are talking about was in his 6th year and 28 yo.  Trevor is in his 4th season and 24 yo with 1 year with basically no coaching. 

3. Trevor is a rhythm QB who needs pocket space. Has Trevor made a lot of mistakes this year, yes. But he get 0 easy throws to get into a rhythm. Even when he gets throws on target, they are basically for no yards, dropped, or he is pressured and has to give up on the play. For a young player who has to get into a rhythm, that makes sense. Do you want him to eventually grow into a guy who can get himself into a rhythm, sure. But everything in this situation he currently is in makes hard for him to do that.

4. Despite all the "running focus", they still cannot consistently run the ball and even when they do -- they fumble. So teams basically can focus everything on the passing game and messing with Lawrence.

Have you ever heard of a Pareto chart? Y'all keep harping on Trevor like he is the no.1 thing on that chart. He is not. He certainly has issues he has to fix. But this team needs to fix all those other higher priority thing first, and that will take a few years. By that point you will know what you have in Trevor, can move on and go trying to find a better QB if you need to.

This is not a franchise that has a winning culture and yearly contender status. You don't just microwave that without FO/Coaching infrastructure.

Mahomes would not be as elite if he had been drafted by the John Fox Chicago Bears or Doug Marrone/Coughlin Jacksonville Jaguars. Allen and Lamar would not be where they are now if they had been drafted by Hue Jackson/Freddie Kitchens Cleveland Browns or the Todd Bowles or Adam Gase NY Jets. Them getting draft to stable smart organizations that had been on recent playoff runs and/or good/great coaches helped them develop.

---

I get the coaching and the play calling is an issue but lets focus on EXECUTION.  When Trevor has the open man he too often either misses the pass or throws it to the wrong man.  Regardless of what he wants to do it's not working. Coaches can tell a QB a million times what the correct thing to do but the QB has to do it.  QB's make their living on passes less than 20 yards.  Lawrence struggles with ball placement, accuracy, touch, wrong reads just way too often for a "star" QB in his 4th year.  Josh Allen on Monday night looked like an NFL QB while Lawrence looked like a Jacksonville Shark QB. Also real QB's elevate the team around them.  Brady did far more with far less.  Lawrence is paid and looked at one of those elite QB but HIS PLAY is not living up to it.

1. At any point in the NFL there are maybe 2-3 QB's that "elevate the play" of the offense no matter what the offense consistently. He has had flashes which a lot of quarterbacks will have. I'm sorry he is not going to be a no doubt HoF QB no matter what. That doesn't mean he cannot be a Super Bowl winning QB. Not all those guys have to be HoF's.

2. The players you are comparing Lawrence to are like true vets. Josh Allen is 28yo and in his 7th year and finally not doing stupid TOs. The Tom Brady you are talking about was in his 6th year and 28 yo.  Trevor is in his 4th season and 24 yo with 1 year with basically no coaching. 

3. Trevor is a rhythm QB who needs pocket space. Has Trevor made a lot of mistakes this year, yes. But he get 0 easy throws to get into a rhythm. Even when he gets throws on target, they are basically for no yards, dropped, or he is pressured and has to give up on the play. For a young player who has to get into a rhythm, that makes sense. Do you want him to eventually grow into a guy who can get himself into a rhythm, sure. But everything in this situation he currently is in makes hard for him to do that.

4. Despite all the "running focus", they still cannot consistently run the ball and even when they do -- they fumble. So teams basically can focus everything on the passing game and messing with Lawrence.

Have you ever heard of a Pareto chart? Y'all keep harping on Trevor like he is the no.1 thing on that chart. He is not. He certainly has issues he has to fix. But this team needs to fix all those other higher priority thing first, and that will take a few years. By that point you will know what you have in Trevor, can move on and go trying to find a better QB if you need to.

This is not a franchise that has a winning culture and yearly contender status. You don't just microwave that without FO/Coaching infrastructure.

Mahomes would not be as elite if he had been drafted by the John Fox Chicago Bears or Doug Marrone/Coughlin Jacksonville Jaguars. Allen and Lamar would not be where they are now if they had been drafted by Hue Jackson/Freddie Kitchens Cleveland Browns or the Todd Bowles or Adam Gase NY Jets. Them getting draft to stable smart organizations that had been on recent playoff runs and/or good/great coaches helped them develop.

The main issue there are too man deficiencies that Trevor Lawrence has in his game.  You stated yourself with all those number points that he has to be in the right situation to succeed. The great ones do not need everything to be perfect around them to succeed. Lets cut through all the BS and call it like it is.  Trevor Lawrence is a below average player with Elite Player Talent. His career is at a crossroads right now.  He either rises to the occasion or he does not. I would not be saying this if he were playing well and the rest of the team is a trainwreck.  He is just as bad as a trainwreck as the rest of the team currently. You can't have it both ways.  You can't call him "the prince that was promised" meaning he will deliver us a good football team and then say he needs X,Y,Z, 1, 2, 3 to be successful.  I have watched the NFL over 30 years and know good QB's when I see them. Lawrence currently is not it. He has the potential but the NFL has a line miles long of PLayers will Lots of talent but never lived up to it.  If he starts playing better and showing that potential I will eat my crow and be happy about it.  Let me know when that happens.

*I also do not mean one game. I know if Trevor has one good 300 yard game the fans are just going to be drooling I told you so comments. I want to see it over a time frame and consistent like real NFL franchise QB's does. In his career, his TD and Yards are much lower than the elite QBs.

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I get the coaching and the play calling is an issue but lets focus on EXECUTION.  When Trevor has the open man he too often either misses the pass or throws it to the wrong man.  Regardless of what he wants to do it's not working. Coaches can tell a QB a million times what the correct thing to do but the QB has to do it.  QB's make their living on passes less than 20 yards.  Lawrence struggles with ball placement, accuracy, touch, wrong reads just way too often for a "star" QB in his 4th year.  Josh Allen on Monday night looked like an NFL QB while Lawrence looked like a Jacksonville Shark QB. Also real QB's elevate the team around them.  Brady did far more with far less.  Lawrence is paid and looked at one of those elite QB but HIS PLAY is not living up to it.

1. At any point in the NFL there are maybe 2-3 QB's that "elevate the play" of the offense no matter what the offense consistently. He has had flashes which a lot of quarterbacks will have. I'm sorry he is not going to be a no doubt HoF QB no matter what. That doesn't mean he cannot be a Super Bowl winning QB. Not all those guys have to be HoF's.

2. The players you are comparing Lawrence to are like true vets. Josh Allen is 28yo and in his 7th year and finally not doing stupid TOs. The Tom Brady you are talking about was in his 6th year and 28 yo.  Trevor is in his 4th season and 24 yo with 1 year with basically no coaching. 

3. Trevor is a rhythm QB who needs pocket space. Has Trevor made a lot of mistakes this year, yes. But he get 0 easy throws to get into a rhythm. Even when he gets throws on target, they are basically for no yards, dropped, or he is pressured and has to give up on the play. For a young player who has to get into a rhythm, that makes sense. Do you want him to eventually grow into a guy who can get himself into a rhythm, sure. But everything in this situation he currently is in makes hard for him to do that.

4. Despite all the "running focus", they still cannot consistently run the ball and even when they do -- they fumble. So teams basically can focus everything on the passing game and messing with Lawrence.

Have you ever heard of a Pareto chart? Y'all keep harping on Trevor like he is the no.1 thing on that chart. He is not. He certainly has issues he has to fix. But this team needs to fix all those other higher priority thing first, and that will take a few years. By that point you will know what you have in Trevor, can move on and go trying to find a better QB if you need to.

This is not a franchise that has a winning culture and yearly contender status. You don't just microwave that without FO/Coaching infrastructure.

Mahomes would not be as elite if he had been drafted by the John Fox Chicago Bears or Doug Marrone/Coughlin Jacksonville Jaguars. Allen and Lamar would not be where they are now if they had been drafted by Hue Jackson/Freddie Kitchens Cleveland Browns or the Todd Bowles or Adam Gase NY Jets. Them getting draft to stable smart organizations that had been on recent playoff runs and/or good/great coaches helped them develop.

You said what was difficult for me to articulate. 

But they’ll hand waive and dismiss. For some if he’s not Mahomes, he’s not good enough

---

Look at this.



The offensive line does their job and there is a really clean pocket

There is a wide receiver running wide open in the route

Lawrence steps up and sails it 3 yards over the receivers head

Cmon man, the excuses are getting old.


https://youtu.be/rxrmmlJ4kxQ?si=VT5-Ym8mAnXrDPY7

---

1. At any point in the NFL there are maybe 2-3 QB's that "elevate the play" of the offense no matter what the offense consistently. He has had flashes which a lot of quarterbacks will have. I'm sorry he is not going to be a no doubt HoF QB no matter what. That doesn't mean he cannot be a Super Bowl winning QB. Not all those guys have to be HoF's.

2. The players you are comparing Lawrence to are like true vets. Josh Allen is 28yo and in his 7th year and finally not doing stupid TOs. The Tom Brady you are talking about was in his 6th year and 28 yo.  Trevor is in his 4th season and 24 yo with 1 year with basically no coaching. 

3. Trevor is a rhythm QB who needs pocket space. Has Trevor made a lot of mistakes this year, yes. But he get 0 easy throws to get into a rhythm. Even when he gets throws on target, they are basically for no yards, dropped, or he is pressured and has to give up on the play. For a young player who has to get into a rhythm, that makes sense. Do you want him to eventually grow into a guy who can get himself into a rhythm, sure. But everything in this situation he currently is in makes hard for him to do that.

4. Despite all the "running focus", they still cannot consistently run the ball and even when they do -- they fumble. So teams basically can focus everything on the passing game and messing with Lawrence.

Have you ever heard of a Pareto chart? Y'all keep harping on Trevor like he is the no.1 thing on that chart. He is not. He certainly has issues he has to fix. But this team needs to fix all those other higher priority thing first, and that will take a few years. By that point you will know what you have in Trevor, can move on and go trying to find a better QB if you need to.

This is not a franchise that has a winning culture and yearly contender status. You don't just microwave that without FO/Coaching infrastructure.

Mahomes would not be as elite if he had been drafted by the John Fox Chicago Bears or Doug Marrone/Coughlin Jacksonville Jaguars. Allen and Lamar would not be where they are now if they had been drafted by Hue Jackson/Freddie Kitchens Cleveland Browns or the Todd Bowles or Adam Gase NY Jets. Them getting draft to stable smart organizations that had been on recent playoff runs and/or good/great coaches helped them develop.

The main issue there are too man deficiencies that Trevor Lawrence has in his game.  You stated yourself with all those number points that he has to be in the right situation to succeed. The great ones do not need everything to be perfect around them to succeed. Lets cut through all the BS and call it like it is.  Trevor Lawrence is a below average player with Elite Player Talent. His career is at a crossroads right now.  He either rises to the occasion or he does not. I would not be saying this if he were playing well and the rest of the team is a trainwreck.  He is just as bad as a trainwreck as the rest of the team currently. You can't have it both ways.  You can't call him "the prince that was promised" meaning he will deliver us a good football team and then say he needs X,Y,Z, 1, 2, 3 to be successful.  I have watched the NFL over 30 years and know good QB's when I see them. Lawrence currently is not it. He has the potential but the NFL has a line miles long of PLayers will Lots of talent but never lived up to it.  If he starts playing better and showing  that potential I will eat my crow and be happy about it.  Let me know when that happens.

*I also do not mean one game.  I know if Trevor has one good 300 yard game the fans are just going to be drooling I told you so comments.  I want to see it over a time frame and consistent like real NFL franchise QB's does.  In his career, his TD and Yards are much lower than the elite QBs.

There have been maybe 20-25 "great ones" that you talk about in the history of the Super Bowl Era. If that is the kind of luck you are waiting on, you will be waiting your entire lifetime. You would be better off rooting for the elite quarterback(s) of every era rather than any single team.

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QB rankings

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-we...ter-top-10

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Look at this.



The offensive line does their job and there is a really clean pocket

There is a wide receiver running wide open in the route

Lawrence steps up and sails it 3 yards over the receivers head

Cmon man, the excuses are getting old.


https://youtu.be/rxrmmlJ4kxQ?si=VT5-Ym8mAnXrDPY7

Meh

He sailed a ball. He's done that 3 or 4 times this year on 89 attempts. That one happened to be gift wrapped to a safety. There's no excuse for it but it isn't some common mistake he's making these days. 

I'm more worried about him not making more reads before release and his new tendency to leave the pocket instead of navigating pressure within the pocket. 

He's leaving some makable plays out there right now by not getting through his progression or being stubborn about hitting the deepest target. 

He's got to improve, but that play is pretty bad example. It's an outlier.

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13 pages since the MNF game.

I wonder if this thread will have 13 pages of posts 
if we win Sunday.

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QB rankings

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-we...ter-top-10

I remember wanting to draft the Florida kid Lamar Jackson and was flamed here for it lol.

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QB rankings

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-we...ter-top-10

I remember wanting to draft the Florida kid Lamar Jackson and was flamed here for it lol.

I wanted Goedert that year.

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