This is something I've been thinking about. We've had all those breaks go against us so far this year (Etienne fumble, Safety against Cleveland) and they've hurt us enough and motivated the opposition and the games slipped away. Look at someone like the Chiefs. They've been pretty poor so far but with a few favourable calls they are 4-0. The league is so close standard wise, there aren't any real super teams and there aren't any awful 0-16 teams (no, we aren't THAT bad), it really feels an any given Sunday league right now.

I think of that Brady quote that games come down to 4-5 plays and the team that executes them usually gets the W and that's been our biggest achilies heel so far. We've not made those plays and we've let other teams make theirs.

The margin between a W and an L is so small now and we had found a way to get on the right side of those games but it's like we've forgotten again.

Just trying to keep everyone honest here, but going back in a game and picking out certain plays that were negative and turning them positive is a useless exercise.  Look at the Texans game, if the Houston punt returner hadn't muffed that punt to begin the game you'd have to take 7 points off the board and give the Texans offense another drive to start the game.  According to your logic, the Jaguars would have been less "motivated" to win.

Overcoming adversity is a huge piece of the puzzle when constructing a winning NFL team.

The bigger problem is not that we jump on opportunity when it is handed to us (we did, in your example), but that when we have the wheel, we drive straight into the ditch.

We don't understand how to be assertive, how to control the game, how to dictate the flow. We bend. We bend more. We eventually snap.

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I've read your post 5 times now and genuinely don't understand what your point is. Are you saying the Miami game wouldn't have been different if Etienne scores a TD rather than fumble at the 1?

When I talk of motivation, I'm talking about the swings in momentum of a game that gives one team that belief, or motivation to go on and win it.

If every Bills passing TD was instead a pick-six for the Jags you would have dominated them...  I'm pointing out that changing plays post-hoc is nonsense.

MYLES JACK WASN'T DOWN

Am I doing this right?

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I've read your post 5 times now and genuinely don't understand what your point is. Are you saying the Miami game wouldn't have been different if Etienne scores a TD rather than fumble at the 1?

When I talk of motivation, I'm talking about the swings in momentum of a game that gives one team that belief, or motivation to go on and win it.

If every Bills passing TD was instead a pick-six for the Jags you would have dominated them...  I'm pointing out that changing plays post-hoc is nonsense.

That's an exaggeration though, we've literally got 5 plays in 3 games that are the difference between 0-4 and 3-1. This team isn't as bad as 0-4, even though the record is what it is. They just seem to be snakebit.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I've read your post 5 times now and genuinely don't understand what your point is. Are you saying the Miami game wouldn't have been different if Etienne scores a TD rather than fumble at the 1?

When I talk of motivation, I'm talking about the swings in momentum of a game that gives one team that belief, or motivation to go on and win it.

If every Bills passing TD was instead a pick-six for the Jags you would have dominated them...  I'm pointing out that changing plays post-hoc is nonsense.

That's a disingenuous interpretation of what my post was saying. I was pointing out plys where we made big mistakes and come the end of the game were big factors between winning and losing. I'm not turning TD's into FG's or creating fantasy. I'm not saying this is a 3-1 team.

I'm saying this team makes a lot of mistakes and some are absolute killers that we can't overcome.

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If every Bills passing TD was instead a pick-six for the Jags you would have dominated them...  I'm pointing out that changing plays post-hoc is nonsense.

That's an exaggeration though, we've literally got 5 plays in 3 games that are the difference between 0-4 and 3-1. This team isn't as bad as 0-4, even though the record is what it is. They just seem to be snakebit.

Yes of course it is, but the point is that when Etienne fumbled in the endzone the whole Jaguars team lost their mind (noted by the commentators.)  Some people are still saying that the fumble was the turnaround for the whole team leading to the 0-4 record.  If you believe that, then there is something fundamentally wrong with the confidence of the team. Heck believing that the team is "snakebit" is just an excuse that the team doesn't have the never-say-die attitude that successful NFL teams have to have.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

That's an exaggeration though, we've literally got 5 plays in 3 games that are the difference between 0-4 and 3-1. This team isn't as bad as 0-4, even though the record is what it is. They just seem to be snakebit.

Yes of course it is, but the point is that when Etienne fumbled in the endzone the whole Jaguars team lost their mind (noted by the commentators.)  Some people are still saying that the fumble was the turnaround for the whole team leading to the 0-4 record.  If you believe that, then there is something fundamentally wrong with the confidence of the team. Heck believing that the team is "snakebit" is just an excuse that the team doesn't have the never-say-die attitude that successful NFL teams have to have.

You're right. We were well on course to win in week 1 but the team collapsed. This is not on individual players but point to a bigger issue.

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If every Bills passing TD was instead a pick-six for the Jags you would have dominated them...  I'm pointing out that changing plays post-hoc is nonsense.

That's an exaggeration though, we've literally got 5 plays in 3 games that are the difference between 0-4 and 3-1. This team isn't as bad as 0-4, even though the record is what it is. They just seem to be snakebit.

This argument could also be used on other teams with the similiar record as our lovely Jags.

The league is that close, that two or three plays, plays a huge outcome in a game. 

Same with the bungholes, the tacks and all the other teams with bad NFL records so far.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

https://youtu.be/8cQ0efpkQdY?si=I3gH7ekGU5F0vkru

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He's just not being developed properly.  He's off by half a step.  He's throwing off his back foot even when the O-Line is doing well.  He rarely sets his feet even when the O-Line is doing it's job.  He's not good in the pocket.  He's never been good in the pocket, to be honest.  He bails out with his spin since his rookie year.

He's making rookie mistakes in year 4.  

There are many reasons for it.  He's no longer trusting the O-Line and is seeing ghosts like Gabbert did.  He's also not doing the fundamental things like setting his feet.  He's not driving into throws, but instead throwing off his back foot.  He still doesn't now how to throw anything other than a laser when a feathered throw with touch could help our stone handed WRs and TEs.  

These are all on Trevor for not developing.  Though, it would be nice to have a QB whisperer that could help him figure it out.  I still don't think T-Law is a lost cause.  He's been playing below his potential for 3 games now.  (He did enough to win in Miami).  But I'd rather not call Trevor a bust, or think that the entire failures of this offense fall directly on his back.

---

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He's just not being developed properly.  He's off by half a step.  He's throwing off his back foot even when the O-Line is doing well.  He rarely sets his feet even when the O-Line is doing it's job.  He's not good in the pocket.  He's never been good in the pocket, to be honest.  He bails out with his spin since his rookie year.

He's making rookie mistakes in year 4.  

There are many reasons for it.  He's no longer trusting the O-Line and is seeing ghosts like Gabbert did.  He's also not doing the fundamental things like setting his feet.  He's not driving into throws, but instead throwing off his back foot.  He still doesn't now how to throw anything other than a laser when a feathered throw with touch could help our stone handed WRs and TEs.  

These are all on Trevor for not developing.  Though, it would be nice to have a QB whisperer that could help him figure it out.  I still don't think T-Law is a lost cause.  He's been playing below his potential for 3 games now.  (He did enough to win in Miami).  But I'd rather not call Trevor a bust, or think that the entire failures of this offense fall directly on his back.

Every point in your assessment is hyperbole. 

None of those things happen as frequently as you assert

It's all stuff he needs to improve, but you imply, or rather directly state he does it all the time, which is nonsense.

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Good analysis by Kurt Warner. 

When we say Lawerence has regressed or not developed, These are the types of things we were hoping Doug Pederson led staff would have helped Tlaw with by now.. that he would be a fundamentally sound player to match his tremendous skill set. 

Now why has it not happened to the extent we all have expected through these first four games ? Certainly some of it probably comes from the fact that the system he ran in college was very fast paced no huddle spread and probably didn’t require him to live and die with these kinds of mechanics. But he is not the only QB to come out of this type of system, and it has been 3 going on four years of NFL play… albeit three with coach Pederson. Is it the o lines fault for being so leaky over the years?  is it the coaching? Bottom line is when something is so mechanically flawed it’s usually a combination of the two. But that’s just not good enough for a professional athlete and coach who are making so much money and have so much riding on this guys performance.

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He's just not being developed properly.  He's off by half a step.  He's throwing off his back foot even when the O-Line is doing well.  He rarely sets his feet even when the O-Line is doing it's job.  He's not good in the pocket.  He's never been good in the pocket, to be honest.  He bails out with his spin since his rookie year.

He's making rookie mistakes in year 4.  

There are many reasons for it.  He's no longer trusting the O-Line and is seeing ghosts like Gabbert did.  He's also not doing the fundamental things like setting his feet.  He's not driving into throws, but instead throwing off his back foot.  He still doesn't now how to throw anything other than a laser when a feathered throw with touch could help our stone handed WRs and TEs.  

These are all on Trevor for not developing.  Though, it would be nice to have a QB whisperer that could help him figure it out.  I still don't think T-Law is a lost cause.  He's been playing below his potential for 3 games now.  (He did enough to win in Miami).  But I'd rather not call Trevor a bust, or think that the entire failures of this offense fall directly on his back.

Every point in your assessment is hyperbole. 

None of those things happen as frequently as you assert

It's all stuff he needs to improve, but you imply, or rather directly state he does it all the time, which is nonsense.

So I say he needs to improve on the things he's doing poorly, and it's hyperbole?

OK, bruh.

I never said he does those things every time.  But he does it enough that it's clearly a matter that he's not getting better.  He's actually regressing.  I mean, is that hyperbole?  

I'd really like him to get better support from a coaching staff that can develop him.  I guess I'm crazy for wanting a better result from a QB that we have invested 50 million a year for the next few years.  Call me hyperbolic.

---

https://youtu.be/8cQ0efpkQdY?si=I3gH7ekGU5F0vkru

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Good analysis by Kurt Warner. 

When we say Lawerence has regressed or not developed, These are the types of things we were hoping Doug Pederson led staff would have helped Tlaw with by now.. that he would be a fundamentally sound player to match his tremendous skill set. 

Now why has it not happened to the extent we all have expected through these first four games ? Certainly some of it probably comes from the fact that the system he ran in college was very fast paced no huddle spread and probably didn’t require him to live and die with these kinds of mechanics. But he is not the only QB to come out of this type of system, and it has been 3 going on four years of NFL play… albeit three with coach Pederson. Is it the o lines fault for being so leaky over the years?  is it the coaching? Bottom line is when something is so mechanically flawed it’s usually a combination of the two. But that’s just not good enough for a professional athlete and coach who are making so much money and have so much riding on this guys performance.

stop being so hyperbolic

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Every point in your assessment is hyperbole. 

None of those things happen as frequently as you assert

It's all stuff he needs to improve, but you imply, or rather directly state he does it all the time, which is nonsense.

So I say he needs to improve on the things he's doing poorly, and it's hyperbole?

OK, bruh.

I never said he does those things every time.  But he does it enough that it's clearly a matter that he's not getting better.  He's actually regressing.  I mean, is that hyperbole?  

I'd really like him to get better support from a coaching staff that can develop him.  I guess I'm crazy for wanting a better result from a QB that we have invested 50 million a year for the next few years.  Call me hyperbolic.

---

Good analysis by Kurt Warner. 

When we say Lawerence has regressed or not developed, These are the types of things we were hoping Doug Pederson led staff would have helped Tlaw with by now.. that he would be a fundamentally sound player to match his tremendous skill set. 

Now why has it not happened to the extent we all have expected through these first four games ? Certainly some of it probably comes from the fact that the system he ran in college was very fast paced no huddle spread and probably didn’t require him to live and die with these kinds of mechanics. But he is not the only QB to come out of this type of system, and it has been 3 going on four years of NFL play… albeit three with coach Pederson. Is it the o lines fault for being so leaky over the years?  is it the coaching? Bottom line is when something is so mechanically flawed it’s usually a combination of the two. But that’s just not good enough for a professional athlete and coach who are making so much money and have so much riding on this guys performance.

stop being so hyperbolic

lol… I really just hope it’s not too late and we can eventually get to a point where his fundamentals match his skill set.. whenever that may be. Key word being WE and that it happens in Jacksonville under this current contract and not later under some other team/ staff.

---

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He's just not being developed properly.  He's off by half a step.  He's throwing off his back foot even when the O-Line is doing well.  He rarely sets his feet even when the O-Line is doing it's job.  He's not good in the pocket.  He's never been good in the pocket, to be honest.  He bails out with his spin since his rookie year.

He's making rookie mistakes in year 4.  

There are many reasons for it.  He's no longer trusting the O-Line and is seeing ghosts like Gabbert did.  He's also not doing the fundamental things like setting his feet.  He's not driving into throws, but instead throwing off his back foot.  He still doesn't now how to throw anything other than a laser when a feathered throw with touch could help our stone handed WRs and TEs.  

These are all on Trevor for not developing.  Though, it would be nice to have a QB whisperer that could help him figure it out.  I still don't think T-Law is a lost cause.  He's been playing below his potential for 3 games now.  (He did enough to win in Miami).  But I'd rather not call Trevor a bust, or think that the entire failures of this offense fall directly on his back.

Trevor is in his fourth season yet your argument is that "he isnt being developed properly", like really? He was touted as a "generational talent" and he hasn't improved four years in. You'll have to come into realization that Trevor isn't a really good QB and it has nothing to do with developement anymore. Maybe he could be  game manager in a right roster but he isn't the QB we all thought he could be. 

That's that.

---

So I say he needs to improve on the things he's doing poorly, and it's hyperbole?

OK, bruh.

I never said he does those things every time.  But he does it enough that it's clearly a matter that he's not getting better.  He's actually regressing.  I mean, is that hyperbole?  

I'd really like him to get better support from a coaching staff that can develop him.  I guess I'm crazy for wanting a better result from a QB that we have invested 50 million a year for the next few years.  Call me hyperbolic.

---

stop being so hyperbolic

lol… I really just hope it’s not too late and we can eventually get to a point where his fundamentals match his skill set.. whenever that may be. Key word being WE and that it happens in Jacksonville under this current contract and not later under some other team/ staff.

I have faith in T-Law.  But currently, he's in his own head, and he's getting little help in critical situations.

We should have beaten Miami.  We should have beaten Cleveland.  And we should have beaten the tinhorns.  There were plays left on the field by every single offensive player in every single game.  And yet there are these minute details that should have been done better.  

I prefer to think T-Law is not the problem.  But that's just me.  I'm clearly in the minority in terms of the current mood of this message board.  Other forums think differently.  

It's fun to come discuss these things here because of how contrarian they are to the vast majority of other forums...  I actually prefer it here.  Believe it or not.  As a Jaguars fan, I'm a glutton for punishment.

---

He's just not being developed properly.  He's off by half a step.  He's throwing off his back foot even when the O-Line is doing well.  He rarely sets his feet even when the O-Line is doing it's job.  He's not good in the pocket.  He's never been good in the pocket, to be honest.  He bails out with his spin since his rookie year.

He's making rookie mistakes in year 4.  

There are many reasons for it.  He's no longer trusting the O-Line and is seeing ghosts like Gabbert did.  He's also not doing the fundamental things like setting his feet.  He's not driving into throws, but instead throwing off his back foot.  He still doesn't now how to throw anything other than a laser when a feathered throw with touch could help our stone handed WRs and TEs.  

These are all on Trevor for not developing.  Though, it would be nice to have a QB whisperer that could help him figure it out.  I still don't think T-Law is a lost cause.  He's been playing below his potential for 3 games now.  (He did enough to win in Miami).  But I'd rather not call Trevor a bust, or think that the entire failures of this offense fall directly on his back.

Trevor is in his fourth season yet your argument is that "he isnt being developed properly", like really? He was touted as a "generational talent" and he hasn't improved four years in. You'll have to come into realization that Trevor isn't a really good QB and it has nothing to do with developement anymore. Maybe he could be  game manager in a right roster but he isn't the QB we all thought he could be. 

That's that.

I don't care about the hype of T-Law pre draft.  I do care about how great he played in 2022 and how he clearly has so much potential to be a top 5 QB.

Your opinion that he "could maybe be a game manager" is completely antithetical to his actual potential.  T-Law is a legit NFL QB.  I think with the proper coaching and proper scheme, he has the ability to get us to the SB.

But that's just my opinion.  We disagree.  I just think you're being a bit too pessimistic.

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lol… I really just hope it’s not too late and we can eventually get to a point where his fundamentals match his skill set.. whenever that may be. Key word being WE and that it happens in Jacksonville under this current contract and not later under some other team/ staff.

I have faith in T-Law.  But currently, he's in his own head, and he's getting little help in critical situations.

Poor trevor boy is not getting help whaaa whaaa. We drafted one of the better WRs in the draft class. Has a top TE (when hes healthy) and somewhat seem to have a decent RBs around. But yes the highest player in the team isnt getting any help. Whaa whaaa whaaaa.

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lol… I really just hope it’s not too late and we can eventually get to a point where his fundamentals match his skill set.. whenever that may be. Key word being WE and that it happens in Jacksonville under this current contract and not later under some other team/ staff.

I have faith in T-Law.  But currently, he's in his own head, and he's getting little help in critical situations.

We should have beaten Miami.  We should have beaten Cleveland.  And we should have beaten the tinhorns.  There were plays left on the field by every single offensive player in every single game.  And yet there are these minute details that should have been done better.  

I prefer to think T-Law is not the problem.  But that's just me.  I'm clearly in the minority in terms of the current mood of this message board.  Other forums think differently.  

It's fun to come discuss these things here because of how contrarian they are to the vast majority of other forums...  I actually prefer it here.  Believe it or not.  As a Jaguars fan, I'm a glutton for punishment.

---

Trevor is in his fourth season yet your argument is that "he isnt being developed properly", like really? He was touted as a "generational talent" and he hasn't improved four years in. You'll have to come into realization that Trevor isn't a really good QB and it has nothing to do with developement anymore. Maybe he could be  game manager in a right roster but he isn't the QB we all thought he could be. 

That's that.

I don't care about the hype of T-Law pre draft.  I do care about how great he played in 2022 and how he clearly has so much potential to be a top 5 QB.

So your take is that he had one good season therefore he can remain consistent with the right coaches? Lol, by the way -  those were the same coaches that helped him get there.....   

His ball placement has been pretty mid his whole NFL career. This is usually the number 1 quality you see in underwhelming QBs who seem to have all the tools.

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I have faith in T-Law.  But currently, he's in his own head, and he's getting little help in critical situations.

Poor trevor boy is not getting help whaaa whaaa. We drafted one of the better WRs in the draft class. Has a top TE (when hes healthy) and somewhat seem to have a decent RBs around. But yes the highest player in the team isnt getting any help. Whaa whaaa whaaaa.

LOL.  OK.  I don't know how to have a discussion with you based on this type of response.  

I guess you made your point.  I disagree with it.

---

Every point in your assessment is hyperbole. 

None of those things happen as frequently as you assert

It's all stuff he needs to improve, but you imply, or rather directly state he does it all the time, which is nonsense.

So I say he needs to improve on the things he's doing poorly, and it's hyperbole?

OK, bruh.

I never said he does those things every time.  But he does it enough that it's clearly a matter that he's not getting better.  He's actually regressing.  I mean, is that hyperbole?  

I'd really like him to get better support from a coaching staff that can develop him.  I guess I'm crazy for wanting a better result from a QB that we have invested 50 million a year for the next few years.  Call me hyperbolic.

---

The way you worded it stated all of his inconsistencies as absolutes. 

If you didn't mean it that way, you shouldn't have stated it that way.

No biggie, I'll just assume you don't actually mean what you type next time if I can just get my ESP revved up a bit. 
I need to go see Aaron Rodgers' shaman I suppose.

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I have faith in T-Law.  But currently, he's in his own head, and he's getting little help in critical situations.

We should have beaten Miami.  We should have beaten Cleveland.  And we should have beaten the tinhorns.  There were plays left on the field by every single offensive player in every single game.  And yet there are these minute details that should have been done better.  

I prefer to think T-Law is not the problem.  But that's just me.  I'm clearly in the minority in terms of the current mood of this message board.  Other forums think differently.  

It's fun to come discuss these things here because of how contrarian they are to the vast majority of other forums...  I actually prefer it here.  Believe it or not.  As a Jaguars fan, I'm a glutton for punishment.

---

I don't care about the hype of T-Law pre draft.  I do care about how great he played in 2022 and how he clearly has so much potential to be a top 5 QB.

So your take is that he had one good season therefore he can remain consistent with the right coaches? Lol, by the way -  those were the same coaches that helped him get there.....   

His ball placement has been pretty mid his whole NFL career. This is usually the number 1 quality you see in underwhelming QBs who seem to have all the tools.

His accuracy has above average in 2022 and even in 2023 when he got injured.  His deep balls have always been pretty good, except for the start of this year.

The coaches from 2021 to 2022 absolutely should get credit for his exponential improvment.  But the QB coach that was there in 2022 left after the season.  And he hasn't developed further from there.  

Remember, Cooter left after 2022.  

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree that Lawrence is washed.  He's played like an unconfident QB right now.  I have said the same thing over and over in the game day threads.  It's not like I'm ignoring the reality of his current play.  But I absolutely know that if there was better support in the film room and practice field, Trevor can be a top 10 QB.

Just an FYI, I never said he's be "generational".  I have said, and I stand behind it, that Trevor is a franchise QB that can make us a perennial playoff team.  With the right coaches and players around him, he can win a Super Bowl.  I stand by that.  I'll die on that hill.

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So I say he needs to improve on the things he's doing poorly, and it's hyperbole?

OK, bruh.

I never said he does those things every time.  But he does it enough that it's clearly a matter that he's not getting better.  He's actually regressing.  I mean, is that hyperbole?  

I'd really like him to get better support from a coaching staff that can develop him.  I guess I'm crazy for wanting a better result from a QB that we have invested 50 million a year for the next few years.  Call me hyperbolic.

---

The way you worded it stated all of his inconsistencies as absolutes. 

If you didn't mean it that way, you shouldn't have stated it that way.

No biggie, I'll just assume you don't actually mean what you type next time if I can just get my ESP revved up a bit. 
I need to go see Aaron Rodgers' shaman I suppose.

The way you interpret my words is based on a weird hatred you have for me.  Maybe you should take a step back and reconsider how your bias clouds your recognition of words, my friend.

---

So your take is that he had one good season therefore he can remain consistent with the right coaches? Lol, by the way -  those were the same coaches that helped him get there.....   

His ball placement has been pretty mid his whole NFL career. This is usually the number 1 quality you see in underwhelming QBs who seem to have all the tools.

His accuracy has above average in 2022 and even in 2023 when he got injured.  His deep balls have always been pretty good, except for the start of this year.

The coaches from 2021 to 2022 absolutely should get credit for his exponential improvment.  But the QB coach that was there in 2022 left after the season.  And he hasn't developed further from there.  

Remember, Cooter left after 2022.  

I'm sorry, but I just don't agree that Lawrence is washed.  He's played like an unconfident QB right now.  I have said the same thing over and over in the game day threads.  It's not like I'm ignoring the reality of his current play.  But I absolutely know that if there was better support in the film room and practice field, Trevor can be a top 10 QB.

Just an FYI, I never said he's be "generational".  I have said, and I stand behind it, that Trevor is a franchise QB that can make us a perennial playoff team.  With the right coaches and players around him, he can win a Super Bowl.  I stand by that.  I'll die on that hill.

---

The way you worded it stated all of his inconsistencies as absolutes. 

If you didn't mean it that way, you shouldn't have stated it that way.

No biggie, I'll just assume you don't actually mean what you type next time if I can just get my ESP revved up a bit. 
I need to go see Aaron Rodgers' shaman I suppose.

The way you interpret my words is based on a weird hatred you have for me.  Maybe you should take a step back and reconsider how your bias clouds your recognition of words, my friend.

It's about your inability to express your thoughts clearly, but thanks for the tip.

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