If we had a real establishment dc. If only

It's weird how Nielsen was a great DC with the Saints, then again last year with the Falcons, yet comes here and suddenly just doesn't know how to coach.

It's also interesting that those defenses had 40+ sacks on the year.

Almost like there's a key something here that isn't the same. 

A "big and strong" something even.

In 2022 Nielson was only co DC and still under head coach Dennis Allen who was the real DC in the room. 

In 2023, the average scoring in the NFL was 21.8. The Falcons allowed more that 9 times including to the Jags and 28+ 5 times. Their yearly average was helped by facing the Jets without Flacco, and Panthers x 2 to like 8-10 points.

He had "a good run defense" but it still allowed over 118 yards per game.

---

The one thing you can't give up in that situation is the deep pass.. And what do they [BLEEP] do..

Just play Zone and make Willis read the field if he's going to throw it.. Damn it. [BLEEP] stupid.

---

If we had a real establishment dc. If only

It's weird how Nielsen was a great DC with the Saints, then again last year with the Falcons, yet comes here and suddenly just doesn't know how to coach.

It's also interesting that those defenses had 40+ sacks on the year.

Almost like there's a key something here that isn't the same. 

A "big and strong" something even.

So are you saying that Neilsen is not the problem?  Are you saying that firing Caldwell was correct, and that Neilesn is only hampered by the bad players we have?

---

The one thing you can't give up in that situation is the deep pass.. And what do they [BLEEP] do..

Just play Zone and make Willis read the field if he's going to throw it.. Damn it. [BLEEP] stupid.

Cisco got eaten on the pick then went down hard. I'd expect him on the injury report later on, maybe a trip to the IR in short order.

---

It's weird how Nielsen was a great DC with the Saints, then again last year with the Falcons, yet comes here and suddenly just doesn't know how to coach.

It's also interesting that those defenses had 40+ sacks on the year.

Almost like there's a key something here that isn't the same. 

A "big and strong" something even.

So are you saying that Neilsen is not the problem?  Are you saying that firing Caldwell was correct, and that Neilesn is only hampered by the bad players we have?

I don't really think much can be done with the completely ineffective personnel on our defensive line. I don't know if it's a Nielsen problem, a talent problem, or more likely a bit of both...but I do know that our GM said we were gonna get bigger and stronger this year and we just didn't see it. It's also pretty much the same problem we had last year but Caldwell played all zone behind it to cover up the big plays. That's why all the guns a'blazin' at the coaches just overlook the real issue, that the players just simply aren't talented enough.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

It's weird how Nielsen was a great DC with the Saints, then again last year with the Falcons, yet comes here and suddenly just doesn't know how to coach.

It's also interesting that those defenses had 40+ sacks on the year.

Almost like there's a key something here that isn't the same. 

A "big and strong" something even.

So are you saying that Neilsen is not the problem?  Are you saying that firing Caldwell was correct, and that Neilesn is only hampered by the bad players we have?

It seems so and he is right. 

It's clear that any discussion on why Nielsen needs to go also must explain why he was good last year and not this year.

---

The one thing you can't give up in that situation is the deep pass.. And what do they [BLEEP] do..

Just play Zone and make Willis read the field if he's going to throw it.. Damn it. [BLEEP] stupid.

Cisco got eaten on the pick then went down hard. I'd expect him on the injury report later on, maybe a trip to the IR in short order.

---

So are you saying that Neilsen is not the problem?  Are you saying that firing Caldwell was correct, and that Neilesn is only hampered by the bad players we have?

I don't really think much can be done with the completely ineffective personnel on our defensive line. I don't know if it's a Nielsen problem, a talent problem, or more likely a bit of both...but I do know that our GM said we were gonna get bigger and stronger this year and we just didn't see it. It's also pretty much the same problem we had last year but Caldwell played all zone behind it to cover up the big plays. That's why all the guns a'blazin' at the coaches just overlook the real issue, that the players just simply aren't talented enough.

I personally think this, Nielsen is a problem yes. His rotations up front make no sense in critical situations early in the game. But also Baalke failed this team. He knew what the weaknesses were and who we lost and did not address it. He had no vision for this d. They both are terrible and will go

---

The issue on defense boils down to the most basic level there is...

Our front 4 can't generate ANY pressure whatsoever, let alone on a consistent basis, which then snowballs into bigger issues to overcompensate for this massive deficiency on the line.

Allen has regressed immensely and Walker has always been a one-trick pony so offensive linemen know what to expect from him. The other players on the D-line are not even worthy of a mention - which is congruent with their abilities to show up on gameday (...they don't).

I pointed out in the 2nd game of the season that Hines-Allen looked incredibly slower than he normally did along with Andre Cisco, who was an actual ballhawk... This whole bulking experiment has been a massive failure on all levels of this defense. We're significantly slower than our opposition - both in getting to the QB or getting to the ball.

---

Cisco got eaten on the pick then went down hard. I'd expect him on the injury report later on, maybe a trip to the IR in short order.

---

I don't really think much can be done with the completely ineffective personnel on our defensive line. I don't know if it's a Nielsen problem, a talent problem, or more likely a bit of both...but I do know that our GM said we were gonna get bigger and stronger this year and we just didn't see it. It's also pretty much the same problem we had last year but Caldwell played all zone behind it to cover up the big plays. That's why all the guns a'blazin' at the coaches just overlook the real issue, that the players just simply aren't talented enough.

I personally think this, Nielsen is a problem yes. His rotations up front make no sense in critical situations early in the game. But also Baalke failed this team. He knew what the weaknesses were and who we lost and did not address it. He had no vision for this d. They both are terrible and will go

But do you think you need to blow up the entire D?

That's my real point.  Neilsen is not good, but I think there are players on the D at every level that can make this D great over 1 offseason with the right GM and the right DC.

---

I personally think this, Nielsen is a problem yes. His rotations up front make no sense in critical situations early in the game. But also Baalke failed this team. He knew what the weaknesses were and who we lost and did not address it. He had no vision for this d. They both are terrible and will go

But do you think you need to blow up the entire D?

That's my real point.  Neilsen is not good, but I think there are players on the D at every level that can make this D great over 1 offseason with the right GM and the right DC.

The only players worthy of retaining on this defense imo are Tyson Campbell, Ventrell Miller, and Foye Oluokun.

---

The issue on defense boils down to the most basic level there is...

Our front 4 can't generate ANY pressure whatsoever, let alone on a consistent basis, which then snowballs into bigger issues to overcompensate for this massive deficiency on the line.

Allen has regressed immensely and Walker has always been a one-trick pony so offensive linemen know what to expect from him. The other players on the D-line are not even worthy of a mention - which is congruent with their abilities to show up on gameday (...they don't).

I pointed out in the 2nd game of the season that Hines-Allen looked incredibly slower than he normally did along with Andre Cisco, who was an actual ballhawk... This whole bulking experiment has been a massive failure on all levels of this defense. We're significantly slower than our opposition - both in getting to the QB or getting to the ball.

Ok but if this is the theory then WHY? Why are they disappearing? Probably because this scheme and silly rotations aren’t best suited for their skill sets. Arik is playing the wrong position and Lloyd is lost every single passing play

---

The issue on defense boils down to the most basic level there is...

Our front 4 can't generate ANY pressure whatsoever, let alone on a consistent basis, which then snowballs into bigger issues to overcompensate for this massive deficiency on the line.

Allen has regressed immensely and Walker has always been a one-trick pony so offensive linemen know what to expect from him. The other players on the D-line are not even worthy of a mention - which is congruent with their abilities to show up on gameday (...they don't).

I pointed out in the 2nd game of the season that Hines-Allen looked incredibly slower than he normally did along with Andre Cisco, who was an actual ballhawk... This whole bulking experiment has been a massive failure on all levels of this defense. We're significantly slower than our opposition - both in getting to the QB or getting to the ball.

Ok but if this is the theory then WHY? Why are they disappearing? Probably because this scheme and silly rotations aren’t best suited for their skill sets. Arik is playing the wrong position and Lloyd is lost every single passing play

They weren't doing [BLEEP] before Nielson came in with his revolving door of rotations on the D-line this year either.

The players have regressed. They are visibly SLOWER and that's coming from Jimmy and Joe's who are simply watching the game from their TVs. You think the guys who get paid millions to call plays AGAINST our blabbering-footed bozos don't see this either?

---

Campbell gets pushed back into Cisco which jams him up. Cisco then proceeds to kiss the turf while trying to chase.

Both Foye and Lloyd are absolutely lost after they realize it's not a run.

What a disaster.
https://twitter.com/packers/status/1850630767698903515

---

Campbell gets pushed back into Cisco which jams him up. Cisco then proceeds to kiss the turf while trying to chase.

Both Foye and Lloyd are absolutely lost after they realize it's not a run.

What a disaster.
https://twitter.com/packers/status/1850630767698903515

Looks like Cisco toppled over like an imbalanced bodybuilder who only works out his upperbody and forgets leg days.

---

But do you think you need to blow up the entire D?

That's my real point.  Neilsen is not good, but I think there are players on the D at every level that can make this D great over 1 offseason with the right GM and the right DC.

The only players worthy of retaining on this defense imo are Tyson Campbell, Ventrell Miller, and Foye Oluokun.

So you want to trade Walker and JHA?  

Buster Brown is looking good too.  Muma and Lloyd are serviceable and make for good depth.  

This D has the talent on all 3 levels.  They are just not being used properly.  I agree that Neilsen isn't the right DC for this squad.  I just don't think it's time to blow up the entire D roster.  This is a reload situation, not a revamp situation.

---

The only players worthy of retaining on this defense imo are Tyson Campbell, Ventrell Miller, and Foye Oluokun.

So you want to trade Walker and JHA?  

Buster Brown is looking good too.  Muma and Lloyd are serviceable and make for good depth.  

This D has the talent on all 3 levels.  They are just not being used properly.  I agree that Neilsen isn't the right DC for this squad.  I just don't think it's time to blow up the entire D roster.  This is a reload situation, not a revamp situation.

Walker and JHA don't make enough plays to warrant either their massive contracts, in JHA's case, or be versatile enough to possess a different skill-set other than a bull rush.

The players I mentioned are the only ones I genuinely believe are playmakers. We might have gotten fleeced by JHA sadly. I do think he needs to slim back down because he looks incredibly sluggish - and we can't have two of those types of players playing both end positions on the D-line. Leave that to Walker who can only bull-rush and get JHA to hopefully be nimble enough to utilize some sort of finesse moves to affect opposing QBs.

Buster Brown is a nobody along with the others, lets be honest. We Jags fans sometime over-hype players because we've been yearning for truly TALENTED players on both sides of the ball.

---

The part of this game that blew my mind other than the horrendous blown coverage at the end was the possession where we have the packers pinned on the 8 yard line. For some unknown reason, JHA AND Travon were on the sidelines for the first 5 plays of that drive. Every play went for at least 10 yards and JHA and Travon weren’t put back into the game until the packers were on the other side of the 50. There is absolutely NO reason our best 2 pass rushers to be on the sidelines in that situation. That alone is more than enough reason to lock him out of the building and send his [BLEEP] down the road.

---

Jaguars Fundamentalist

I personally think this, Nielsen is a problem yes. His rotations up front make no sense in critical situations early in the game. But also Baalke failed this team. He knew what the weaknesses were and who we lost and did not address it. He had no vision for this d. They both are terrible and will go

But do you think you need to blow up the entire D?

That's my real point.  Neilsen is not good, but I think there are players on the D at every level that can make this D great over 1 offseason with the right GM and the right DC.

I think we are missing in two key areas. Interior DL and at safety .. I also think we have ni se ind

The problems run a lot deeper than just Lawrence.  The entire team is just unprepared.  It's coaching, bad drafting, bad free agent signings.  The only solution is a true, complete blow up.  Fire every coach, every scout, the GM, you name it.  

You're stuck with Lawrence after giving him that monster contract.  No way out of it.  The only thing you can do is finally get an O-line that can block and get a young coach, not one of these retreads.

Yeah, that's pretty much spot on.  I wouldn't fire anybody until late November or December though.  If they are as bad as we've seen they'll contribute to the better draft pick.  Perhaps they pick up some games when the schedule gets easier and we start getting some guys back from injury and perhaps they dig themselves out and can get themselves back in contention later on. Wishful thinking I know.  The one good piece of news from today's game is that the tinhorns are also not a very good football team and will probably be looking to pick up their share of L's over the coming months.

We need to stop disguising between gm and coaches. Our interior Dl and overall play making at DB is bad … but also our plan to get our best players on the field is terrible … right now all sides deserve to be fired. And I fully anticipate they will be. We need better management from GM to coaches. The are all one right now and they both suck. Let’s rip the bandaid off and start again

---

I hope 2025 is a whole new regime, but Nielsen is fool's gold.

Not the real deal as advertised.

He kept taking Travon Walker off the field today and he refuses to put his best front four together for 60-70% of the snaps like most DCs tend to do.

I'm over it with this defense. Obviously we ned another corner and another safety no matter what the scheme, but he should be getting more out ofd these players.

---

I hope 2025 is a whole new regime, but Nielsen is fool's gold.

Not the real deal as advertised.

He kept taking Travon Walker off the field today and he refuses to put his best front four together for 60-70% of the snaps like most DCs tend to do.

I'm over it with this defense. Obviously we ned another corner and another safety no matter what the scheme, but he should be getting more out ofd these players.

I wonder what this D would look like if Caldwell was still here...

---

I hope 2025 is a whole new regime, but Nielsen is fool's gold.

Not the real deal as advertised.

He kept taking Travon Walker off the field today and he refuses to put his best front four together for 60-70% of the snaps like most DCs tend to do.

I'm over it with this defense. Obviously we ned another corner and another safety no matter what the scheme, but he should be getting more out ofd these players.

THIS^

I can’t believe some of you are defending him. He needs to leave if Doug wants any shot at keeping his job. The Defense is not playing disciplined or with energy. 

I thought after the Miami game that you know maybe were ok. But now It’s every week we have busted coverages that are costing us games. 

Cisco is playing like he doesn’t want a contract , like out of everyone I’m surprised by how poor he’s playing

---