I hope 2025 is a whole new regime, but Nielsen is fool's gold.

Not the real deal as advertised.

He kept taking Travon Walker off the field today and he refuses to put his best front four together for 60-70% of the snaps like most DCs tend to do.

I'm over it with this defense. Obviously we ned another corner and another safety no matter what the scheme, but he should be getting more out ofd these players.

I wonder what this D would look like if Caldwell was still here...

In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

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The worst part about him by far is how much he subs out our best players and sends in fringe practice squad guys. Literally nobody else in the nfl subs out there best players as much as he does.

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I wonder what this D would look like if Caldwell was still here...

In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

I think we all agree that our players are not as advertised. HOWEVER our star players are playing lethargic, out of position, not technically sound. This is fundamental coaching. Not to mention we seem to rotate our best players out. 

We would have a decent record right now without Neilson. As far as I’m concerned Miami, Houston, Bears, Browns losses are on him.

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I wonder what this D would look like if Caldwell was still here...

In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

I honestly think the stupid rotation of tie D linemen is hurting their ability to generate pressure on the opposing QB. DE is one of those positions that requires a lot of snaps so they can use moves to set up OTs throughout the game. That rhythm is disrupted with the constant hockey-like line substitutions Nielsen calls during the game. All I know is I’m sick of seeing our best 2 pass rushers on the sidelines on critical passing situations.

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Jaguars Fundamentalist

I wonder what this D would look like if Caldwell was still here...

In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

Our defense was 17th last year, we also had a ton of injuries on D last year. The defense was really good last year before all the injuries and we were leading the league in turnovers. We are 30th this year with the addition of Armstead, Jarian Jones, and Ronald Darby.  If we were even 20th in D this year we would likely have a couple more wins.  If we kept Darius Williams and didn't fire Mike Caldwell I think this team would have a couple more wins than we do now.

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I wonder what this D would look like if Caldwell was still here...

In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you.  But if we had a 3rd season with Caldwell, maybe this D would have played more instinctively.  Instead, you can tell that the Secondary is completely lost out there.  There are so many times when receivers are completely wide open.  

Eh, it's not like it matters.  I was just wondering if maybe, keeping Caldwell would have at least kept some consistency to at least keep the D cohesive in tight spots.

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In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you.  But if we had a 3rd season with Caldwell, maybe this D would have played more instinctively.  Instead, you can tell that the Secondary is completely lost out there.  There are so many times when receivers are completely wide open.  

Eh, it's not like it matters.  I was just wondering if maybe, keeping Caldwell would have at least kept some consistency to at least keep the D cohesive in tight spots.

The defense in the second half of 2023 was garbage and the back seven were freelancing because they didn't trust the scheme or their teammates. 

You can't keep a DC after that happens. 

They didn't screw up by firing Caldwell, they screwed up by not upgrading and getting suckered by a flash in the pan.

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In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

I think we all agree that our players are not as advertised. HOWEVER our star players are playing lethargic, out of position, not technically sound. This is fundamental coaching. Not to mention we seem to rotate our best players out. 

We would have a decent record right now without Neilson. As far as I’m concerned Miami, Houston, Bears, Browns losses are on him.

Where I disagree with Nielson is how much he implements a revolving door of rotations on the D-line. Our starting pass rushers can't generate pressure at a consistent level anyways, why limit their snaps even more...?

I disagree with the second portion of your post - I think some of those losses fell on our inept offense, while the defense held up for most of the game. Regardless, this entire team sucks - from coaches down to the players.

I want a new start from the very top and to let that GM go down the line and select new coaches and players. I'm all for the Lions OC and anyone else on their staff to be brought here in Jax.

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What a bust. Oc and dc HUGE MISTAKES

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In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

Our defense was 17th last year, we also had a ton of injuries on D last year. The defense was really good last year before all the injuries and we were leading the league in turnovers. We are 30th this year with the addition of Armstead, Jarian Jones, and Ronald Darby.  If we were even 20th in D this year we would likely have a couple more wins.  If we kept Darius Williams and didn't fire Mike Caldwell I think this team would have a couple more wins than we do now.

I agree.

I was the one who pointed out that Darby sucked along with Savage - and some people thought otherwise. These acquisitions were horrible and I really wish we still had D. Will starting opposite of Tyson.

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In all honesty, probably still [BLEEP]. Maybe slightly less, but regardless still very bad. I remember our defense getting GASHED 10-15 yards down the middle of the field constantly, during Caldwell's reign.

The players are simply not as good as we think they are - outside of a couple players that I mentioned in a previous post.

Also, both sides of the argument regarding the defense can be true. The coaching sucks - but so do our players too.

Pass rushing can be taken down to the granular level where you can simply observe a 1v1 - and our guys lose that battle almost EVERY time, minus the rare coverage sack once in a while.

I'm not completely disagreeing with you.  But if we had a 3rd season with Caldwell, maybe this D would have played more instinctively.  Instead, you can tell that the Secondary is completely lost out there.  There are so many times when receivers are completely wide open.  

Eh, it's not like it matters.  I was just wondering if maybe, keeping Caldwell would have at least kept some consistency to at least keep the D cohesive in tight spots.

That could be the case, but at that point our team had already fallen off the Caldwell wagon.

But I will keep harping on this point that some of our players have looked noticeably slower - specifically Hines-Allen and Cisco, who's games were predicated on their ability to use their speed/movement to either get to the QB or make a play on the ball in pass coverage.

We're stuck with JHA for some time now, so I would suggest he lose some muscle and hopefully gain back some speed. The same could be said about Cisco, but I'm honestly okay with letting him go in free agency at this point.

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Our defense was 17th last year, we also had a ton of injuries on D last year. The defense was really good last year before all the injuries and we were leading the league in turnovers. We are 30th this year with the addition of Armstead, Jarian Jones, and Ronald Darby.  If we were even 20th in D this year we would likely have a couple more wins.  If we kept Darius Williams and didn't fire Mike Caldwell I think this team would have a couple more wins than we do now.

I agree.

I was the one who pointed out that Darby sucked along with Savage - and some people thought otherwise. These acquisitions were horrible and I really wish we still had D. Will starting opposite of Tyson.

I did not like moving Williams - but I thought Darby would pan out fine based on the scheme talk we heard from Nielsen. The scheme has NOT been as advertised and Darby has not played like he did in his starts in Baltimore. 
He's getting a bit long in the tooth, losing a step IMO. His instincts seem good, but he's not fast enough anymore. 

Darious + Tyson + Jarrion at nickel would have been nice. 

They also failed to upgrade Jenkins at SS.  
Johnson, Savage, Cisco have all had snaps at SS and they are all getting beat by TEs and missing tackles in the run game. 

Jenkins sucked too, but he at least made a big play 3 or 4 times per season. 

Now they have Cisco playing mostly SS and Savage playing mostly FS and it sucks.

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Our defense was 17th last year, we also had a ton of injuries on D last year. The defense was really good last year before all the injuries and we were leading the league in turnovers. We are 30th this year with the addition of Armstead, Jarian Jones, and Ronald Darby.  If we were even 20th in D this year we would likely have a couple more wins.  If we kept Darius Williams and didn't fire Mike Caldwell I think this team would have a couple more wins than we do now.

I agree.

I was the one who pointed out that Darby sucked along with Savage - and some people thought otherwise. These acquisitions were horrible and I really wish we still had D. Will starting opposite of Tyson.

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I'm not completely disagreeing with you.  But if we had a 3rd season with Caldwell, maybe this D would have played more instinctively.  Instead, you can tell that the Secondary is completely lost out there.  There are so many times when receivers are completely wide open.  

Eh, it's not like it matters.  I was just wondering if maybe, keeping Caldwell would have at least kept some consistency to at least keep the D cohesive in tight spots.

That could be the case, but at that point our team had already fallen off the Caldwell wagon.

But I will keep harping on this point that some of our players have looked noticeably slower - specifically Hines-Allen and Cisco, who's games were predicated on their ability to use their speed/movement to either get to the QB or make a play on the ball in pass coverage.

We're stuck with JHA for some time now, so I would suggest he lose some muscle and hopefully gain back some speed. The same could be said about Cisco, but I'm honestly okay with letting him go in free agency at this point.

Both those players bulked up I believe. Cisco and Allen. (Defense looking slower)

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I agree.

I was the one who pointed out that Darby sucked along with Savage - and some people thought otherwise. These acquisitions were horrible and I really wish we still had D. Will starting opposite of Tyson.

I did not like moving Williams - but I thought Darby would pan out fine based on the scheme talk we heard from Nielsen. The scheme has NOT been as advertised and Darby has not played like he did in his starts in Baltimore. 
He's getting a bit long in the tooth, losing a step IMO. His instincts seem good, but he's not fast enough anymore. 

Darious + Tyson + Jarrion at nickel would have been nice. 

They also failed to upgrade Jenkins at SS.  
Johnson, Savage, Cisco have all had snaps at SS and they are all getting beat by TEs and missing tackles in the run game. 

Jenkins sucked too, but he at least made a big play 3 or 4 times per season. 

Now they have Cisco playing mostly SS and Savage playing mostly FS and it sucks.

I agree completely.

Tyson + Darious + Jarrion trio would have been very formidable - which could have potentially led to more pressures/sack conversions on the front end, in addition to more opportunities for interceptions.

I was probably in the minority but I actually liked Jenkins playing the SS position for us, even all the way up to the end of his time here. He was absolutely a liability in coverage at times, but like you said, Jenkins just had that "it" factor and made game-changing plays at the best time possible - in addition to his leadership traits to galvanize the boys on defense.

Our selections and choices to replace the back-end of our secondary has come up nil for us unfortunately. I had high hopes for Johnson, but he clearly needs more time to develop if he's going to amount to anything other than ST's.

We're just immensely SLOW at positions that we need speed and finesse at - and it's biting us in our [BLEEP].

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I agree.

I was the one who pointed out that Darby sucked along with Savage - and some people thought otherwise. These acquisitions were horrible and I really wish we still had D. Will starting opposite of Tyson.

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That could be the case, but at that point our team had already fallen off the Caldwell wagon.

But I will keep harping on this point that some of our players have looked noticeably slower - specifically Hines-Allen and Cisco, who's games were predicated on their ability to use their speed/movement to either get to the QB or make a play on the ball in pass coverage.

We're stuck with JHA for some time now, so I would suggest he lose some muscle and hopefully gain back some speed. The same could be said about Cisco, but I'm honestly okay with letting him go in free agency at this point.

Both those players bulked up I believe. Cisco and Allen. (Defense looking slower)

That's a coaching decision, right?  It's not like Allen and Cisco decided on their own to bulk up without consultation...

It's just poor coaching.  It's idiocy of the coaches to figure out how to best use the players they have.  It's poor management.  It's obvious to anyone that has ever actually worked in a corporate environment.  The employees only do what the management wants them to do.  Otherwise they get other employees. 

And then when the poorly mismanaged team fails, we blame the players that were mismanaged.  But we give no blame to the terrible managers?

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Campbell gets pushed back into Cisco which jams him up. Cisco then proceeds to kiss the turf while trying to chase.

Both Foye and Lloyd are absolutely lost after they realize it's not a run.

What a disaster.
https://twitter.com/packers/status/1850630767698903515

That's something we really struggled with today. We can make stops when we know what the O will do but really struggle when having to play the pass and run. Once Love went out, we suddenly struggled with the run with Jacobs and Willis scrambling. We finally adjusted and started going selling out on run D and the Packers were just trying to chew clock

The final drive they hit us with a run, we sell out and they have a wide open WR.

As for the D. I don't know if it's Nielsen, the players, the system, execution. Feels all over the above but we're 8 weeks in now and I see things getting worse or fixing whatever the issues are.

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His defense in Atlanta last year wasn't bad. And did much better against the Texans than we did. But he clearly is the type of coach that has a particular style of play and can't be successful changing to fit the talent of any given roster. That falls on baalke and Doug. You have to vet that before bringing him on board. Our roster can't do what he wants. Terrible fit. Terrible management.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Let's not forget that the Jaguars D saved this offense for the entire 1st half...

I'm not saying we don't get rid of Neilsen. I'm just saying that this Jaguar D held the Packers to 13 points while Dougie and his boy's offense pissed all down their leg for 20 game time minutes. You have to give credit to the players on D. Yeah, the secondary is suspect. But the players on D over-all are good enough to keep the game close.

We got an INT in the red zone for crying out loud. The D did the best they could do for as long as they could do it. My question is this. Why would Neilsen not realize that once Love was out of the game that they should focus on their RB??????

It's just bad coaching, guys. It's obvious.

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Campbell gets pushed back into Cisco which jams him up. Cisco then proceeds to kiss the turf while trying to chase.

Both Foye and Lloyd are absolutely lost after they realize it's not a run.

What a disaster.
https://twitter.com/packers/status/1850630767698903515

That's something we really struggled with today. We can make stops when we know what the O will do but really struggle when having to play the pass and run. Once Love went out, we suddenly struggled with the run with Jacobs and Willis scrambling. We finally adjusted and started going selling out on run D and the Packers were just trying to chew clock

The final drive they hit us with a run, we sell out and they have a wide open WR.

As for the D. I don't know if it's Nielsen, the players, the system, execution. Feels all over the above but we're 8 weeks in now and I see things getting worse or fixing whatever the issues are.

I hope you're noticing my focus and level-headed opinions on the defense right now, because I know sometimes most of the hardcore Trevor supporters would say things like "defense does bad -> doesn't get blamed; offense does bad -> Trevor gets blamed".

I'm equal opportunity here with my criticisms, but I will also say that Trevor indeed was a major portion of this loss with those terrible turnovers. But I'll just leave it with our discourse in the massive TLaw thread.

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Darnell Savage sucked today.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

Darnell Savage sucked today.

Today?  Dude has sucked all season

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