So here is what is odd about your argument. If coaching staff knew that last year that Trevor was an average QB at best, why was Trevor signed to that extension this off season?

Same reason why Purdy will be signed in SF. Does it mean that they value him as high as the fanbase in SF do....or the HC, GM?

NFL is a business - especially when it comes to QB play. It's not as easy saying well lets just pay him because we think hes REALLY good or REALLY bad. Or his production is mid or whatnot.

Besides QB production there is alot of others factors that get talked about in "closed doors" when it comes to resigning a QB that we as fans dont consider or think about. 

They probably thought that they had a very good roster around Trevor and they thought he could be "good enough" to play at a high level under this roster. Again think of Purdy with the 9ers. 

They couldn't just let him walk away because he still shows flashes and is young, and they didn't feel too confident walking into the draft and replacing him. Thats just speculations ofcourse. 

My stance on Trevor has always been and always will be that if we have a healthy roster think of 2017 roster than Trevor would thrive and fit in. But he’s not one who can lift a team by himself with any extraordinary skill or talent, in my opinion. 

He falls in the same catg as guys like Baker, Darnold, Cousins, Purdy. 

He is not Burrow, Herbert, Allen, Lamar, Mahomes.

There's 5 that can do it. 

So as a HC and GM, what now? You just dont let them walk away.... you sign them and wish you have a legit roster to compete and Baalke and Doug failed to provide Trevor with elite talent to succeed.

The guys you say he is not are playing with much superior offensive lines. (see below)  The Jag line began the season at the bottom. After 4 or 5 games they have been steadily improving but are still in the lower third of the league. Heck our running backs have to make a guy miss while in the backfield on most runs.

Herbert(13th), Allen(5th), Lamar(11th), Mahomes(8th).

Baker(4th), Darnold(9th), Cousins(14th), Purdy(12th).

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Same reason why Purdy will be signed in SF. Does it mean that they value him as high as the fanbase in SF do....or the HC, GM?

NFL is a business - especially when it comes to QB play. It's not as easy saying well lets just pay him because we think hes REALLY good or REALLY bad. Or his production is mid or whatnot.

Besides QB production there is alot of others factors that get talked about in "closed doors" when it comes to resigning a QB that we as fans dont consider or think about. 

They probably thought that they had a very good roster around Trevor and they thought he could be "good enough" to play at a high level under this roster. Again think of Purdy with the 9ers. 

They couldn't just let him walk away because he still shows flashes and is young, and they didn't feel too confident walking into the draft and replacing him. Thats just speculations ofcourse. 

My stance on Trevor has always been and always will be that if we have a healthy roster think of 2017 roster than Trevor would thrive and fit in. But he’s not one who can lift a team by himself with any extraordinary skill or talent, in my opinion. 

He falls in the same catg as guys like Baker, Darnold, Cousins, Purdy. 

He is not Burrow, Herbert, Allen, Lamar, Mahomes.

There's 5 that can do it. 

So as a HC and GM, what now? You just dont let them walk away.... you sign them and wish you have a legit roster to compete and Baalke and Doug failed to provide Trevor with elite talent to succeed.

The guys you say he is not are playing with much superior offensive lines. (see below)  The Jag line began the season at the bottom. After 4 or 5 games they have been steadily improving but are still in the lower third of the league. Heck our running backs have to make a guy miss while in the backfield on most runs.

Herbert(13th), Allen(5th), Lamar(11th), Mahomes(8th).

Baker(4th), Darnold(9th), Cousins(14th), Purdy(12th).

Here's where your argument fails. 

You can’t measure intangibles by reading stat sheets. You can just tell by watching the plays and results. Guys like  Trevor and Kyler Murray. Trevor has got the size and tools, but hasn’t had the greatest surrounding cast to help him. I’m not sure he has a complete command of the game when it’s needed most. Murray has got something most don’t have, which is speed when scrambling. But command of the playbook has been a problem with him from the start, and if you watch Cardinal games, he misses open receivers. Not because of errant throws- he just can’t see them downfield.

Those guys I mentioned on the last post, being able to lift their teams, are guys you know just sitting on your couch watching games, that they can make clutch plays with their intangibles when it counts. Mahomes did that last week in that final drive. Lamar, Allen, Herbert, Burrow does it every Sunday.

There isn’t a starting QB in the NFL that doesn’t have intangibles. Some intangibles are stronger than others. You know, like being a winner or a leader, being able to read and pick apart defenses, scrambling, being able to make quick decisions, or make uncanny, off-schedule plays when things break down. Maybe it’s confidence in the huddle, maybe it’s the ability to see the entire field or make throws that very few can pull off. And there’s just something about being clutch when it counts. Do you think Trevor has shown that?

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The guys you say he is not are playing with much superior offensive lines. (see below)  The Jag line began the season at the bottom. After 4 or 5 games they have been steadily improving but are still in the lower third of the league. Heck our running backs have to make a guy miss while in the backfield on most runs.

Herbert(13th), Allen(5th), Lamar(11th), Mahomes(8th).

Baker(4th), Darnold(9th), Cousins(14th), Purdy(12th).

Here's where your argument fails. 

You can’t measure intangibles by reading stat sheets. You can just tell by watching the plays and results. Guys like  Trevor and Kyler Murray. Trevor has got the size and tools, but hasn’t had the greatest surrounding cast to help him. I’m not sure he has a complete command of the game when it’s needed most. Murray has got something most don’t have, which is speed when scrambling. But command of the playbook has been a problem with him from the start, and if you watch Cardinal games, he misses open receivers. Not because of errant throws- he just can’t see them downfield.

Those guys I mentioned on the last post, being able to lift their teams, are guys you know just sitting on your couch watching games, that they can make clutch plays with their intangibles when it counts. Mahomes did that last week in that final drive. Lamar, Allen, Herbert, Burrow does it every Sunday.

There isn’t a starting QB in the NFL that doesn’t have intangibles. Some intangibles are stronger than others. You know, like being a winner or a leader, being able to read and pick apart defenses, scrambling, being able to make quick decisions, or make uncanny, off-schedule plays when things break down. Maybe it’s confidence in the huddle, maybe it’s the ability to see the entire field or make throws that very few can pull off. And there’s just something about being clutch when it counts.

If the stuff you are saying is viable the Bengals would not be 5-8.  Purdy has been trash since he lost his left tackle. LOL    Do you watch games or ever go to them?

Nice try but no cigar.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Here's where your argument fails. 

You can’t measure intangibles by reading stat sheets. You can just tell by watching the plays and results. Guys like  Trevor and Kyler Murray. Trevor has got the size and tools, but hasn’t had the greatest surrounding cast to help him. I’m not sure he has a complete command of the game when it’s needed most. Murray has got something most don’t have, which is speed when scrambling. But command of the playbook has been a problem with him from the start, and if you watch Cardinal games, he misses open receivers. Not because of errant throws- he just can’t see them downfield.

Those guys I mentioned on the last post, being able to lift their teams, are guys you know just sitting on your couch watching games, that they can make clutch plays with their intangibles when it counts. Mahomes did that last week in that final drive. Lamar, Allen, Herbert, Burrow does it every Sunday.

There isn’t a starting QB in the NFL that doesn’t have intangibles. Some intangibles are stronger than others. You know, like being a winner or a leader, being able to read and pick apart defenses, scrambling, being able to make quick decisions, or make uncanny, off-schedule plays when things break down. Maybe it’s confidence in the huddle, maybe it’s the ability to see the entire field or make throws that very few can pull off. And there’s just something about being clutch when it counts.

If the stuff you are saying is viable the Bengals would not be 5-8.  Purdy has been trash since he lost his left tackle. LOL    Do you watch games or ever go to them?

Nice try but no cigar.

NFL football isn’t a one-man operation. You’ve still got to have a good surrounding cast. See my comment about Trevor Lawrence.

NFL football also has a main component known as defense. The Bengals have given up the 4th most points per game at 27.7. Think that has anything to do with their record?

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Put your big boy pants on, Eric, before making statements like "Ahh did little baby get his feelings hurt with the truth? Poor baby" and realize that this message board has a search function.  If I thought it would convince anyone who doesn't already know that you act like a 3-year old when you see honest criticism of the Jags, I would put together a dossier of your blind homerism since you've been posting here.

 That sword swings both ways there, "thinly veiled tinhorn troll constantly looking for something to criticize in jags-land."

Okay swing away...as long as you're part of the duel.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

If the stuff you are saying is viable the Bengals would not be 5-8.  Purdy has been trash since he lost his left tackle. LOL    Do you watch games or ever go to them?

Nice try but no cigar.

NFL football isn’t a one-man operation. You’ve still got to have a good surrounding cast. See my comment about Trevor Lawrence.

NFL football also has a main component known as defense. The Bengals have given up the 4th most points per game at 27.7. Think that has anything to do with their record?

As much an impact on their record as the offensive line has on QB success. Still no cigar.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

If the stuff you are saying is viable the Bengals would not be 5-8.  Purdy has been trash since he lost his left tackle. LOL    Do you watch games or ever go to them?

Nice try but no cigar.

NFL football isn’t a one-man operation. You’ve still got to have a good surrounding cast. See my comment about Trevor Lawrence.

NFL football also has a main component known as defense. The Bengals have given up the 4th most points per game at 27.7. Think that has anything to do with their record?

And we are currently one place above them (thank you Will Levis) with 26.5

Does Trevor get a pass like Burrow too or is Trevor expected to 'overcome' it? (Not saying you made that argument but that's one usually thrown at him).

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I do not think anyone's mind is going to change about Lawrence until atleast next season.

I will take the hater label : I don't want to complain about him, I just want him to play better and that would shut me up. I just don't buy all the excuses that's it's not mostly on 16 but it's on everybody else under the sun why he has had lackluster play since that 8-3 start...

The contact has us stuck with him so he will have more chances to shut people like me up.

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NFL football isn’t a one-man operation. You’ve still got to have a good surrounding cast. See my comment about Trevor Lawrence.

NFL football also has a main component known as defense. The Bengals have given up the 4th most points per game at 27.7. Think that has anything to do with their record?

And we are currently one place above them (thank you Will Levis) with 26.5

Does Trevor get a pass like Burrow too or is Trevor expected to 'overcome' it? (Not saying you made that argument but that's one usually thrown at him).

Nobody gets a pass here. It’s just that a few QBs in the league have an “it” factor, where a combination of their skills, physical traits, and mental attitudes enable them to lift their entire teams, especially in crunch time. Mahomes being #1 in my book. He’s way down statistically, because of the Chiefs OT problems not giving him the time he’s had in the past, but the guy is arguably the best clutch QB I’ve ever seen.

I’ve never been a big Joe Burrow fan, but that guy is a leader and a top notch competitor. He absolutely hates losing. Give me that guy’s toolbox and competitiveness any day. Being in the AFC Championship game in both the 2021 and 2022 seasons, plus Super Bowl LVI gives him the cred.

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That was a nice looking drive.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

What, exactly did Mackerel do that Lawrence couldn't do? I'm honestly asking.

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What, exactly did Mackerel do that Lawrence couldn't do?  I'm honestly asking.

Mac isn’t good. Anybody with half a noodle knows that. But he did play the perfect game for us today. Made it a fun game to watch and blew it at the end.

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Mac is a personality that's for sure but that's about it

Anyone know the saying looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane

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I am starting to hear the Term "COACH KILLER" when talking about Lawrence from reviewers outside of the Jaguars.

I promise you dunderpates exist outside of this board, too. Sounds like you found one (or a few).

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It is clear from your post history that we will not agree on this.  I am looking at the results on the field, from the stats, from the mistakes I can clearly pin on Lawrence, Bro we got announcers on Live Television calling out Lawrence for missing wide open receivers, What the expectations are versus the reality of what is happening.

I get your stance:  Your stance is the entire team is bad, the coaching stinks, most of the blame is not on #16.  You believe it's the team that has failed the player and not the Player who has failed the team.

We just disagree on it.  I believe #16 isn't as good as you think he is.  I stated this earlier and will state it again.  If we started this season over in the exact same situation but trade Lawrence to the Chiefs for Mahomes or Lawrence for Josh Allen, or Lawrence for Joe Burrow: I am betting my savings that the Jaguars make the playoffs.  Meanwhile, each of those teams would be much worse off.  That is the difference. 

Lawrence is Young and has time to grow but that does not guarantee he will.  It is year 4 and I still see year 1 mistakes too often on the field.  His turnover tendency has also killed the team. Studies have shown time and time again if you lose the turnover battle you almost always lose the game. 

Look at this list:  Notice that Lawrence is 3rd and Josh Allen is first?  Most people who agree that Both Josh Allen and Kirk Cousins are much better QB's than Lawrence so how can this be?  The difference is those 2 players create plays, make the right reads, make td's, and keep their team competitive. We have a Star right now on the field with BJT and Lawrence managed to throw for under 200 yards a game in 6 games this year.  I do not have the faith you have in him.   Then his concussion history to add to the fact.
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/who-has...e-2020-nfl

Yeah, we are not going to see eye to eye on this...

Gotta stoop pretty low to see eye to eye with someone who thinks Kork Coopins is creative, makes reads and keeps his team competitive.  


Selective stats are selective. Here's another one. Mac already has as many turnovers as Trevor had all season, both are tied for 20th. Maybe we need a creative competitor like Will Levis or Mr. Coopins.

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Interesting that you changed it from Darnold to Mahomes and Allen.... The clear best 2 QBs in the league.

Has anyone said Lawrence is as good as Mahomes and Allen? No.

Also. Are the Bengals making the playoffs? 

Interesting.....

The Vikings may let Sam Darnold go after this season in order to make room for JJ McCarthy.  Is Darnold an upgrade on TL?  Should the Jags try to list him?

If you even ask this question, the answer isn't worth uttering.

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Here is a something I struggle with Trevor... who is his best comp? Seriously who?

Statistically I thought Jared Goff, but Goff won a ton of games. Also, Trevor has a lot of running ability that is uncapped IMO, but with the concussions that'll probably stop anyways. He's definitely nothing like Stafford.  Also, no, he is nothing like Daniel Jones (the national media's comparison). So who is he like?

I've boiled it down to another Clemson QB, Deshaun Watson (pre all the suspension/drama/trade) or current Packers QB, Jordan Love. No real argument other than, kind of play similar and statistically somewhat comparable.

Anyone got a comp for TLAW?

Steve Young if he was never traded to San Fran.

wow experience.

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Mac is a personality that's for sure  but that's about it

Anyone know the saying looks like Tarzan but plays like Jane

Hehe, I know the saying but Mac Jones does not look like Tarzan.  I agree that he's not a starter, hence the reason he was traded for a 6th, but I'd put him right in the middle of backup QBs, as a TJ Yates type of QB.  He might squeak a win out here and there, but certainly not someone you want leading the franchise.

On the flip-side, giving Lawrence credit (as some have done) as being better than a mid backup doesn't really swing the needle for me.

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NYC4jags Wrote:
Can we leave the personal insults behind for a while and get back to some semblance of topic, gents?
Please, and thank you.

 That sword swings both ways there, "thinly veiled tinhorn troll constantly looking for something to criticize in jags-land."

Okay swing away...as long as you're part of the duel.

I already did, sorry you missed it. 

BTW - With the amount of zone defense the Jests played yesterday, I'd wager heavily that if that Jags had a healthy Lawrence, Engram and Kirk - they win that contest by 10 points taking a knee. 

Even with a defense that folded like a wallet in the second half.

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Interesting that you changed it from Darnold to Mahomes and Allen.... The clear best 2 QBs in the league.

Has anyone said Lawrence is as good as Mahomes and Allen? No.

Also. Are the Bengals making the playoffs? 

Interesting.....

The Vikings may let Sam Darnold go after this season in order to make room for JJ McCarthy.  Is Darnold an upgrade on TL?  Should the Jags try to list him?

Sam Darnold is a perfect example of how a QB on a great team looks great, but a QB on a bad team looks bad.  And we should keep that in mind when we judge Trevor.  I know opinions about Trevor vary, but I think if you put Trevor on a great team, he would look great.

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Lol. It makes me laugh the people who hate Trevor can't go one week without talking about him, even when he isn't playing!

They are soooo desperate for Trevor to fail. Lot of angry cheetos basement typing today.

It's funny.
This thread gets bumped every week and he's on the bench. 
SMH

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