Thanks.  Saved me from typing that.  And there are others.

There's no right or wrong train of thought when it comes to hiring a HC.

You want the Dan Campbell type? Go for it!

You want the young offensive minded play caller? Go for it!

No need to bash someone because they look like a college kid and think they can't command a locker room. Kevin OcConnell is beloved in that locker room. His players would run through a brick wall for him but because he doesn't scream about biting knee caps like Campbell, people think he can't command the locker room.

I totally agree.  Ideally, we would get a young savant who can create a beautiful offense and command the locker room.  But being able to command the locker room is an absolute prerequisite.  If Ben Johnson can command a locker room, then he's our best choice.  But if he can't do that, we have to take him off the list.  Same goes for everyone else.

Head coaching is a completely different skill set than offensive coordinator.  We need a head coach.

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There's no right or wrong train of thought when it comes to hiring a HC.

You want the Dan Campbell type? Go for it!

You want the young offensive minded play caller? Go for it!

No need to bash someone because they look like a college kid and think they can't command a locker room. Kevin OcConnell is beloved in that locker room. His players would run through a brick wall for him but because he doesn't scream about biting knee caps like Campbell, people think he can't command the locker room.

I totally agree.  Ideally, we would get a young savant who can create a beautiful offense and command the locker room.  But being able to command the locker room is an absolute prerequisite.  If Ben Johnson can command a locker room, then he's our best choice.  But if he can't do that, we have to take him off the list.  Same goes for everyone else.

Head coaching is a completely different skill set than offensive coordinator.  We need a head coach.

I'll be happy with Glenn, Coen or Johnson.

I think Coen is my favorite choice because I just get a better overall vibe from him. I like that he comes from the McVay tree, hes changed up his scheme throughout the year to maximize the talent during injuries, and he seems more relatable.

Ben Johnson seems very calculated (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) and ARSB said he expects perfection on every play.

Glenn is the closest to Dan Campbell you're going to get but who he picks as his OC will be a massive aspect for me to hire him.

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I heard that the questions were asked beforehand during the Khan interview and had to get approved.

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If Marcus Freeman is available next year when we do yet another HC hire, give him a look. Looks like the next McVay.

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"Remember Red, Hope is a good thing. Maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."  - Andy Dufresne, The Shawshank Redemption

Is Jon Gruden on the list? Chucky had the lousy Raiders at 8-8 his last year.

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I heard that the questions were asked beforehand during the Khan interview and had to get approved.

I doubt that but I also don't doubt that the reporters knew which questions they could ask. Teams have too much power now and can just get media removed if you ask tough questions so they never get tough questions.

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Is Jon Gruden on the list?  Chucky had the lousy Raiders at 8-8 his last year.

Really?  Gruden?

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Is Jon Gruden on the list?  Chucky had the lousy Raiders at 8-8 his last year.

Really?  Gruden?

He does miracles with terrible quarterbacks, of course that guy would suggest him.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

If Marcus Freeman is available next year when we do yet another HC hire, give him a look. Looks like the next McVay.

When was McVay coaching in college?

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Is Jon Gruden on the list?  Chucky had the lousy Raiders at 8-8 his last year.

Gruden? Good coach but way too much baggage. Hard pass.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

I heard that the questions were asked beforehand during the Khan interview and had to get approved.

You're either lying or you were lied to

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I heard that the questions were asked beforehand during the Khan interview and had to get approved.

You're either lying or you were lied to

And besides, who cares?  They didn't have to have a press conference at all.  They could have just announced it with a press release.

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You're either lying or you were lied to

And besides, who cares?  They didn't have to have a press conference at all.  They could have just announced it with a press release.

I counted at least 4 questions that made both of them squirm.
None of that was approved. 
If Khan knowingly made Baalke sit through that many people asking Khan why Baalke still had a job, that was a serious power play from Khan, LOL.

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I look at Glenn and Vrabel as men, and the younger ones -- Coen especially -- as college kids based on their youthful faces. I think the former two will project leadership. The 30ish coaches, like Mike McDaniel, are like wonky young savants. They're viewed as the cool hipster at first. But when their wizardry gets figured out or their team's personnel isn't great, it will be tough for them to command the locker room and grind through the tough times. By contrast, Dan Campbell garnered instant respect as a former player and seasoned man to instill discipline and fortitude in the locker room. That's why I'm casting my vote for Glenn or Vrabel.

We have no idea. Everyone is just spinning their tops.

People said the same thing for McVay or LaFleur, but both guys have the respect of their teams, can control/lead a locker room men, and manage a team. Whereas there have been many primarily culture guys who failed because they couldn't develop players, didn't have coherent schemes, could not make adjustments, or their message/stick got stale and fell on deaf ears at the first sign of struggle.

There is no way to predict which guy will have enough of those characteristics to succeed. Some of it may be right time, right place, right maturity. Some may be getting paired with the right star/franchise players or GM to balance them out.

The primary thing to look for though is trying to find a force multiplier at the HC. That is a guy who is able to coach up one or more position groups several notches above their talent level. That could be via elite scouting/development, assistant coach identification, film room/scheme identification, and/or play calling. But then it allows you to devote way fewer resources (cap space/draft capital) to parts of the team, and use it to shore up other sectors.

Some examples would be Green Bay and OL's, San Fran and RB's, Seattle under Carroll and DB's, Belicheck and his def Front 7.

That is how you win regularly in this league.

Also if people really want pure culture guys, why aren't you including the elite Special Teams coaches that have been considered for years but still have not been given a shot?

Yeah, I largely agree with this. Remember, we were told that Gus Bradley, because of his personality, would be this great leader.  How did that work out?  When I was one of the few who didn't like the Urban Meyer selection because of no NFL experience, I was told that the only thing that matters was being a "leader".  How did that work out?  I think some on here believe that all an NFL coach needs to do is make an inspiring speech at half time and then the worst team in the league will magically dominate over the best team.  Afterall, it works in virtually every sports movie.  The problem is that it doesn't usually work like that in real life.  

Let's go back to my argument regarding college coaches.  College coaches (without NFL experience) have such a bad track in the NFL that few even get interviewed anymore.  I currently see 32 different candidates having received requests for NFL head coaching interviews.  Only 2 are from the college ranks without any NFL experience.  Why?  I'm sure there are a number of college head coaches with excellent leadership skills.  The reason is NFL teams knows that it takes more than leadership to be a good NFL head coach.  NFL knowledge is also extremely important.  

I reject the notion that just because someone is a good coordinator that they can't also be a good leader.  Keep in mind that an offensive coordinator is the leader of the offense.  Their success was likely due in part to their leadership.  In terms of a young coordinator, I will say that I also believe that leadership has little to do with age.  Don't most player's respect their team captains?  How old are they?  A young person can be a leader just as much as an older person.  

The bottom line is I want both.  I want a brilliant NFL mind (which probably means a successful NFL coordinator) who is also a leader.  I also do think the NFL rules over time have changed the focus of the game to being more about offense.  As such, it's not an absolute, but yes, I would prefer an offensive coordinator over a defensive coordinator, assuming all else is equal.  It's not all about Trevor, but if I could ask a new head coach to take an existing player and turn him into an elite level player, I would want it to be the quarterback.  It's not even close.

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We have no idea. Everyone is just spinning their tops.

People said the same thing for McVay or LaFleur, but both guys have the respect of their teams, can control/lead a locker room men, and manage a team. Whereas there have been many primarily culture guys who failed because they couldn't develop players, didn't have coherent schemes, could not make adjustments, or their message/stick got stale and fell on deaf ears at the first sign of struggle.

There is no way to predict which guy will have enough of those characteristics to succeed. Some of it may be right time, right place, right maturity. Some may be getting paired with the right star/franchise players or GM to balance them out.

The primary thing to look for though is trying to find a force multiplier at the HC. That is a guy who is able to coach up one or more position groups several notches above their talent level. That could be via elite scouting/development, assistant coach identification, film room/scheme identification, and/or play calling. But then it allows you to devote way fewer resources (cap space/draft capital) to parts of the team, and use it to shore up other sectors.

Some examples would be Green Bay and OL's, San Fran and RB's, Seattle under Carroll and DB's, Belicheck and his def Front 7.

That is how you win regularly in this league.

Also if people really want pure culture guys, why aren't you including the elite Special Teams coaches that have been considered for years but still have not been given a shot?

Yeah, I largely agree with this. Remember, we were told that Gus Bradley, because of his personality, would be this great leader.  How did that work out?  When I was one of the few who didn't like the Urban Meyer selection because of no NFL experience, I was told that the only thing that matters was being a "leader".  How did that work out?  I think some on here believe that all an NFL coach needs to do is make an inspiring speech at half time and then the worst team in the league will magically dominate over the best team.  Afterall, it works in virtually every sports movie.  The problem is that it doesn't usually work like that in real life.  

Let's go back to my argument regarding college coaches.  College coaches (without NFL experience) have such a bad track in the NFL that few even get interviewed anymore.  I currently see 32 different candidates having received requests for NFL head coaching interviews.  Only 2 are from the college ranks without any NFL experience.  Why?  I'm sure there are a number of college head coaches with excellent leadership skills.  The reason is NFL teams knows that it takes more than leadership to be a good NFL head coach.  NFL knowledge is also extremely important.  

I reject the notion that just because someone is a good coordinator that they can't also be a good leader.  Keep in mind that an offensive coordinator is the leader of the offense.  Their success was likely due in part to their leadership.  In terms of a young coordinator, I will say that I also believe that leadership has little to do with age.  Don't most player's respect their team captains?  How old are they?  A young person can be a leader just as much as an older person.  

The bottom line is I want both.  I want a brilliant NFL mind (which probably means a successful NFL coordinator) who is also a leader.  I also do think the NFL rules over time have changed the focus of the game to being more about offense.  As such, it's not an absolute, but yes, I would prefer an offensive coordinator over a defensive coordinator, assuming all else is equal.  It's not all about Trevor, but if I could ask a new head coach to take an existing player and turn him into an elite level player, I would want it to be the quarterback.  It's not even close.

The part in bold- literally no one said that.  What I am saying is that while it's nice to get a good offensive coordinator to be our head coach, an absolute prerequisite is that whoever we pick has to be a great leader.   I don't know how Khan can determine who is or is not a great leader, but I sure hope that he tries to do figure that out.

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Yeah, I largely agree with this. Remember, we were told that Gus Bradley, because of his personality, would be this great leader.  How did that work out?  When I was one of the few who didn't like the Urban Meyer selection because of no NFL experience, I was told that the only thing that matters was being a "leader".  How did that work out?  I think some on here believe that all an NFL coach needs to do is make an inspiring speech at half time and then the worst team in the league will magically dominate over the best team.  Afterall, it works in virtually every sports movie.  The problem is that it doesn't usually work like that in real life.  

Let's go back to my argument regarding college coaches.  College coaches (without NFL experience) have such a bad track in the NFL that few even get interviewed anymore.  I currently see 32 different candidates having received requests for NFL head coaching interviews.  Only 2 are from the college ranks without any NFL experience.  Why?  I'm sure there are a number of college head coaches with excellent leadership skills.  The reason is NFL teams knows that it takes more than leadership to be a good NFL head coach.  NFL knowledge is also extremely important.  

I reject the notion that just because someone is a good coordinator that they can't also be a good leader.  Keep in mind that an offensive coordinator is the leader of the offense.  Their success was likely due in part to their leadership.  In terms of a young coordinator, I will say that I also believe that leadership has little to do with age.  Don't most player's respect their team captains?  How old are they?  A young person can be a leader just as much as an older person.  

The bottom line is I want both.  I want a brilliant NFL mind (which probably means a successful NFL coordinator) who is also a leader.  I also do think the NFL rules over time have changed the focus of the game to being more about offense.  As such, it's not an absolute, but yes, I would prefer an offensive coordinator over a defensive coordinator, assuming all else is equal.  It's not all about Trevor, but if I could ask a new head coach to take an existing player and turn him into an elite level player, I would want it to be the quarterback.  It's not even close.

The part in bold- literally no one said that.  What I am saying is that while it's nice to get a good offensive coordinator to be our head coach, an absolute prerequisite is that whoever we pick has to be a great leader.   I don't know how Khan can determine who is or is not a great leader, but I sure hope that he tries to do figure that out.

That's the most important quality for a Head Coach.  One of the aspects of that is being able to hire people under him (coordinators/certain assistants) that can get the job done.  I really don't care if the coach as an offensive or defensive background, it's all about leadership.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

The part in bold- literally no one said that.  What I am saying is that while it's nice to get a good offensive coordinator to be our head coach, an absolute prerequisite is that whoever we pick has to be a great leader.   I don't know how Khan can determine who is or is not a great leader, but I sure hope that he tries to do figure that out.

That's the most important quality for a Head Coach.  One of the aspects of that is being able to hire people under him (coordinators/certain assistants) that can get the job done.  I really don't care if the coach as an offensive or defensive background, it's all about leadership.

Agreed. Put your aces in their places. It's your job as the headman to keep everyone in line, see a weak point and address it and listen to your staff and delegate.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

That's the most important quality for a Head Coach.  One of the aspects of that is being able to hire people under him (coordinators/certain assistants) that can get the job done.  I really don't care if the coach as an offensive or defensive background, it's all about leadership.

Agreed. Put your aces in their places. It's your job as the headman to keep everyone in line, see a weak point and address it and listen to your staff and delegate.

Accountability is important. And it starts from the Owner.

I told you guys that Doug relinquished his power last year.  He kept telling us that he wasn't the play caller.  He kept telling us that was the play caller.  He went back and forth on his accountability.  And then he fired Caldwell because it was the Defense that was the problem.

But guess what, it was Doug the entire time.  I mean, at least we aren't the Dolphins.  But this "organization" has been lost for 3 seasons now.

Baalke has to go.  But Doug messed up a lot of things because of his laziness.

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Yeah, I largely agree with this. Remember, we were told that Gus Bradley, because of his personality, would be this great leader.  How did that work out?  When I was one of the few who didn't like the Urban Meyer selection because of no NFL experience, I was told that the only thing that matters was being a "leader".  How did that work out?  I think some on here believe that all an NFL coach needs to do is make an inspiring speech at half time and then the worst team in the league will magically dominate over the best team.  Afterall, it works in virtually every sports movie.  The problem is that it doesn't usually work like that in real life.  

Let's go back to my argument regarding college coaches.  College coaches (without NFL experience) have such a bad track in the NFL that few even get interviewed anymore.  I currently see 32 different candidates having received requests for NFL head coaching interviews.  Only 2 are from the college ranks without any NFL experience.  Why?  I'm sure there are a number of college head coaches with excellent leadership skills.  The reason is NFL teams knows that it takes more than leadership to be a good NFL head coach.  NFL knowledge is also extremely important.  

I reject the notion that just because someone is a good coordinator that they can't also be a good leader.  Keep in mind that an offensive coordinator is the leader of the offense.  Their success was likely due in part to their leadership.  In terms of a young coordinator, I will say that I also believe that leadership has little to do with age.  Don't most player's respect their team captains?  How old are they?  A young person can be a leader just as much as an older person.  

The bottom line is I want both.  I want a brilliant NFL mind (which probably means a successful NFL coordinator) who is also a leader.  I also do think the NFL rules over time have changed the focus of the game to being more about offense.  As such, it's not an absolute, but yes, I would prefer an offensive coordinator over a defensive coordinator, assuming all else is equal.  It's not all about Trevor, but if I could ask a new head coach to take an existing player and turn him into an elite level player, I would want it to be the quarterback.  It's not even close.

The part in bold- literally no one said that.  What I am saying is that while it's nice to get a good offensive coordinator to be our head coach, an absolute prerequisite is that whoever we pick has to be a great leader.   I don't know how Khan can determine who is or is not a great leader, but I sure hope that he tries to do figure that out.

My point is that I want both.  I agree that leadership is highly important.  However, I also think being a great NFL mind is also highly important.  I think you may be under-valuing NFL football knowledge if you think it's just "nice".  A leader doesn't help you much if he leads you in the wrong direction.

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The part in bold- literally no one said that.  What I am saying is that while it's nice to get a good offensive coordinator to be our head coach, an absolute prerequisite is that whoever we pick has to be a great leader.   I don't know how Khan can determine who is or is not a great leader, but I sure hope that he tries to do figure that out.

That's the most important quality for a Head Coach.  One of the aspects of that is being able to hire people under him (coordinators/certain assistants) that can get the job done.  I really don't care if the coach as an offensive or defensive background, it's all about leadership.

Yes and no, I’ve heard the point made on here and it’s valid- if you have an offensive head coach it is less likely to have your offensive coordinator poached after a successful season. Like in Detroit right now. And honestly Trevor needs a bit of consistency and stability from his offensive scheme. 

I’m not saying Johnson is the next Kyle Shanahan but kyle hasn’t even had an o coordinator until next year cause he just promoted kubiak. I feel like getting a HC who assumes the roll of calling plays and implementing the offensive scheme will be most beneficial.

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