Zelensky met with Starmer and realized that Europe isn't going to help.

Without the USA, Ukraine is doomed, and the rest of Europe have just woken up to this as well.

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CCL Stroudcrowd1

Well, you will need some business experience to understand but I will attempt to communicate it. When embarking on a large deal you first sign and agree to a framework. Without the framework agreed to it is useless to go further. It is also called a Memorandum of Understanding. MOU is the abbreviation. Then the lawyers from each side go to workcompleting the document with all the details, checks and balances. The document is then reviewed and once both sides are ok it goes back to the signers and their people for final review. Then you finally sign the agreement.It is really not binding until this point.

Why should he agree to a [BLEEP] deal? Since your speaking in a sense of a business owner?

FROM his own source:

The Ukrainian president said success would depend on the United States providing guarantees to protect the future security of Ukraine in the event of any Russian aggression after a peace deal is reached.

A copy of the agreement seen by Reuters on Wednesday and dated February 25 did not spell out concrete security guarantees under the deal, but mentions Kyiv's efforts to obtain them.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/uk...025-02-26/.

"Therefore" and it doesn't give Ukraine a damn thing.

So a nothing-burger.

Thanks for playing.

Lol, and there you have it. He demanded more than he'd already agreed to once he got to White House and got [BLEEP] slapped like you have the last two days. He thought he could force our hand and found out that the new guy isn't a vegetable like the last one. What he and you don't get is you don't have the upper hand, you both suffer the same delusion. The days of the USA being everyone's doormat have come to a satisfying end. He's starting to get it but he's actually got something to lose. You can afford the stupidity, because you're just a chickenhawk with no risk except those brutal keyboard callouses you get from rage posting on the internet.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Why should he agree to a [BLEEP] deal? Since your speaking in a sense of a business owner?

FROM his own source:


https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/uk...025-02-26/.

"Therefore" and it doesn't give Ukraine a damn thing.

So a nothing-burger.

Thanks for playing.

Lol, and there you have it. He demanded more than he'd already agreed to once he got to White House and got [BLEEP] slapped like you have the last two days. He thought he could force our hand and found out that the new guy isn't a vegetable like the last one. What he and you don't get is you don't have the upper hand, you both suffer the same delusion. The days of the USA being everyone's doormat have come to a satisfying end.  He's starting to get it but he's actually got something to lose. You can afford the stupidity, because you're just a chickenhawk with no risk except those brutal keyboard callouses you get from rage posting on the internet.

You mean except Russia’s doormat.

The one country that’s actually a threat.

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Well, you will need some business experience to understand but I will attempt to communicate it. When embarking on a large deal you first sign and agree to a framework. Without the framework agreed to it is useless to go further. It is also called a Memorandum of Understanding. MOU is the abbreviation. Then the lawyers from each side go to workcompleting the document with all the details, checks and balances. The document is then reviewed and once both sides are ok it goes back to the signers and their people for final review. Then you finally sign the agreement.It is really not binding until this point.

Why should he agree to a [BLEEP] deal? Since your speaking in a sense of a business owner?

FROM his own source:

The Ukrainian president said success would depend on the United States providing guarantees to protect the future security of Ukraine in the event of any Russian aggression after a peace deal is reached.

A copy of the agreement seen by Reuters on Wednesday and dated February 25 did not spell out concrete security guarantees under the deal, but mentions Kyiv's efforts to obtain them.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/deals/uk...025-02-26/.

"Therefore" and it doesn't give Ukraine a damn thing.

So a nothing-burger.

Thanks for playing.

Bottom line is you are evidently are a mentally challenge person.  He knew what it was for and agreed, otherwise he would not have been invited. He pulled this stunt in the oval office and then was kicked out. Yes, Mr. dim light I know he wanted a security agreement, but that is beyond the power of the president to agree to, it takes congress to make a treaty first. This was explained to him many times. It was also explained it was not on the table. He requested and came to the meeting and then tried to strong arm Trump. Actually, that makes it official. He is more clueless of an individual than you are. He then went to try and collect free money from the EU guys. Problem is all he got were secured loans like the rest of their agreements. They told him he was on his own too. Guess he is going to relegate Ukraine to being taken over by Russia. I feel sad for the Ukrainians having a loser leader like that. Much like I feel sad for you.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Before the last election, polling showed majority Republican support was behind Ukraine which makes sense as Russia was the aggressor. After the election, when Trump couldn’t make good on his prediction to end the war on day 1, he decided that Ukraine was to blame and the majority of Republican support was suddenly behind Putin. I wonder if Republicans can actually have an opinion of their own without first getting permission from the leader of their party?

Another question I ask myself is whether Ronald Reagan would have cozied up to the leadership in Russia under these circumstances. Since Reagan is held up as the ideal of conservative mind-think, it’s an interesting question to think about.

Is there another poll which shows a majority of Republicans support Putin?

Depends on what you mean by support. The figure I saw before the election showed about 4% of GOP voters felt favorably about Putin and Russia. That figure in recent polling has jumped to more than 40%. If you combine that with the GOP voters who now feel that Ukraine is to blame for the conflict, even if they’re not necessarily particularly fond of Putin, than it’s reasonable to say a majority of those voters support Russia now. That’s quite a turnaround.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurke...h-ukraine/

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

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The Little Tyrant could've signed the agreement, but like you, his arrogance and ignorance overrode any good sense he might have.

That chicken made me think of this. Not the song but the chicken. Lol

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/WWQGjNws68o

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Is there another poll which shows a majority of Republicans support Putin?

Depends on what you mean by support. The figure I saw before the election showed about 4% of GOP voters felt favorably about Putin and Russia. That figure in recent polling has jumped to more than 40%. If you combine that with the GOP voters who now feel that Ukraine is to blame for the conflict, even if they’re not necessarily particularly fond of Putin, than it’s reasonable to say a majority of those voters support Russia now. That’s quite a turnaround.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurke...h-ukraine/

Russia is not our friend but they also aren't the enemy that the U.S.S.R. was. In some ways Russia has more potential for friendship with us with China moving more prominently to the top of the pecking order, as they are a geographically closer enemy of Russia than us. I don't want to be in a war with Russia, nor do I want any of these other countries doing something that will drag us into war with Russia. I also don't want to support Russia, but I don't care to stop them either; as it is now it's simply not in our interests to be on either side. I'm fine with selling guns and ammo to the Ukrainians if they want to buy our old hardware from us, but I have not one damn bit of interest in giving them the money to do so. We just have too many folks who are stuck in their Cold War/Red Dawn era feelings about a country that just isn't that country any longer.

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Lol, and there you have it. He demanded more than he'd already agreed to once he got to White House and got [BLEEP] slapped like you have the last two days. He thought he could force our hand and found out that the new guy isn't a vegetable like the last one. What he and you don't get is you don't have the upper hand, you both suffer the same delusion. The days of the USA being everyone's doormat have come to a satisfying end.  He's starting to get it but he's actually got something to lose. You can afford the stupidity, because you're just a chickenhawk with no risk except those brutal keyboard callouses you get from rage posting on the internet.

You mean except Russia’s doormat.

The one country that’s actually a threat.

A threat to who? America? Laughable. They can't beat a second-rate landlocked nation like Ukraine who is right next door. There's not a credible threat from Russia aside from potential nuclear attack, but even that threat is miles less than it's been in my own lifetime. Your Russian bogeyman is just shadows on the wall.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Depends on what you mean by support. The figure I saw before the election showed about 4% of GOP voters felt favorably about Putin and Russia. That figure in recent polling has jumped to more than 40%. If you combine that with the GOP voters who now feel that Ukraine is to blame for the conflict, even if they’re not necessarily particularly fond of Putin, than it’s reasonable to say a majority of those voters support Russia now. That’s quite a turnaround.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurke...h-ukraine/

Russia is not our friend but they also aren't the enemy that the U.S.S.R. was. In some ways Russia has more potential for friendship with us with China moving more prominently to the top of the pecking order, as they are a geographically closer enemy of Russia than us. I don't want to be in a war with Russia, nor do I want any of these other countries doing something that will drag us into war with Russia. I also don't want to support Russia, but I don't care to stop them either; as it is now it's simply not in our interests to be on either side. I'm fine with selling guns and ammo to the Ukrainians if they want to buy our old hardware from us, but I have not one damn bit of interest in giving them the money to do so. We just have too many folks who are stuck in their Cold War/Red Dawn era feelings about a country that just isn't that country any longer.

---

You mean except Russia’s doormat.

The one country that’s actually a threat.

A threat to who? America? Laughable. They can't beat a second-rate landlocked nation like Ukraine who is right next door. There's not a credible threat from Russia aside from potential nuclear attack, but even that threat is miles less than it's been in my own lifetime. Your Russian bogeyman is just shadows on the wall.

If you remember Putin made a trip to talk to Xi just before he invaded. I am guessing it was to ensure China would not interfere on Ukraine and in return Russia would not interfere on Taiwan.  While Putin is a hard line KGB leftover from Stalin (you can use a bunch of other adjectives too) He is not stupid.  He got what 20% of Georgia when Clinton blinked, the Crimean Peninsular when Obama did and now trying to get as much of Ukraine from Biden. It is pretty transparent he wants the old USSR/Mother Russia back. Mr. Z better get to the table before they launch a spring offensive where he loses much more land, because I cannot see them getting back what has been lost. Maybe, but pretty long odds. Seems these things always begin when we have a Democrat for President. Could it be intentional?

---

A new broom always sweeps clean.

Russia is not our friend but they also aren't the enemy that the U.S.S.R. was. In some ways Russia has more potential for friendship with us with China moving more prominently to the top of the pecking order, as they are a geographically closer enemy of Russia than us. I don't want to be in a war with Russia, nor do I want any of these other countries doing something that will drag us into war with Russia. I also don't want to support Russia, but I don't care to stop them either; as it is now it's simply not in our interests to be on either side. I'm fine with selling guns and ammo to the Ukrainians if they want to buy our old hardware from us, but I have not one damn bit of interest in giving them the money to do so. We just have too many folks who are stuck in their Cold War/Red Dawn era feelings about a country that just isn't that country any longer.

---

A threat to who? America? Laughable. They can't beat a second-rate landlocked nation like Ukraine who is right next door. There's not a credible threat from Russia aside from potential nuclear attack, but even that threat is miles less than it's been in my own lifetime. Your Russian bogeyman is just shadows on the wall.

If you remember Putin made a trip to talk to Xi just before he invaded. I am guessing it was to ensure China would not interfere on Ukraine and in return Russia would not interfere on Taiwan.  While Putin is a hard line KGB leftover from Stalin (you can use a bunch of other adjectives too) He is not stupid.  He got what 20% of Georgia when Clinton blinked, the Crimean Peninsular when Obama did and now trying to get as much of Ukraine from Biden. It is pretty transparent he wants the old USSR/Mother Russia back. Mr. Z better get to the table before they launch a spring offensive where he loses much more land, because I cannot see them getting back what has been lost. Maybe, but pretty long odds. Seems these things always begin when we have a Democrat for President. Could it be intentional?

It was Bush 43 who was in office when Putin ordered an invasion of Georgia.
Mr. Z for his part just doesn't trust Russia to honor any cease fire agreement they might make, unless future support from Ukraine's allies is also guaranteed.
Why make an agreement that you know the other guy will violate?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

If you remember Putin made a trip to talk to Xi just before he invaded. I am guessing it was to ensure China would not interfere on Ukraine and in return Russia would not interfere on Taiwan.  While Putin is a hard line KGB leftover from Stalin (you can use a bunch of other adjectives too) He is not stupid.  He got what 20% of Georgia when Clinton blinked, the Crimean Peninsular when Obama did and now trying to get as much of Ukraine from Biden. It is pretty transparent he wants the old USSR/Mother Russia back. Mr. Z better get to the table before they launch a spring offensive where he loses much more land, because I cannot see them getting back what has been lost. Maybe, but pretty long odds. Seems these things always begin when we have a Democrat for President. Could it be intentional?

It was Bush 43 who was in office when Putin ordered an invasion of Georgia.
Mr. Z for his part just doesn't trust Russia to honor any cease fire agreement they might make, unless future support from Ukraine's allies is also guaranteed.
Why make an agreement that you know the other guy will violate?

Putin doesn't trust Ukraine to not join NATO. We discussed this already. I am not saying it is fair, I am saying Russia will invade each and every time they try to do this. (Crimean was the first time) He has made it clear they are fine governing themselves as long as this does not occur. Up to them not me. Another year and there may not be much left.

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A new broom always sweeps clean.

Depends on what you mean by support. The figure I saw before the election showed about 4% of GOP voters felt favorably about Putin and Russia. That figure in recent polling has jumped to more than 40%. If you combine that with the GOP voters who now feel that Ukraine is to blame for the conflict, even if they’re not necessarily particularly fond of Putin, than it’s reasonable to say a majority of those voters support Russia now. That’s quite a turnaround.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurke...h-ukraine/

Russia is not our friend but they also aren't the enemy that the U.S.S.R. was. In some ways Russia has more potential for friendship with us with China moving more prominently to the top of the pecking order, as they are a geographically closer enemy of Russia than us. I don't want to be in a war with Russia, nor do I want any of these other countries doing something that will drag us into war with Russia. I also don't want to support Russia, but I don't care to stop them either; as it is now it's simply not in our interests to be on either side. I'm fine with selling guns and ammo to the Ukrainians if they want to buy our old hardware from us, but I have not one damn bit of interest in giving them the money to do so. We just have too many folks who are stuck in their Cold War/Red Dawn 

Russia isn’t the enemy like the USSR was YET!

Putin wants a return of the USSR as he is old Soviet kgb. That’s what he is working toward and if you don’t want that to come to pass then we need to stop Russia’s aggression NOW. Not emboldened Putin and Russia to be one more aggressive until we are again back to a Cold War that could turn hot.

The REASON that Russia isn’t the threat the Soviet Union was IS BECAUSE OF US ACTION. And trump wants to stop a policy that has decreased the power of the Soviet Union and contained Putin aspirations of its return.

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A common sense approach but you know there isn’t a whole lot of that around here.

A common sense approach would've been to continue helping, after all we were the security blanket of the world for a good reason.

It needs repeating: in 1994, Ukraine was persuaded to give up its nuclear weapons to Russia in return for the US, the UK, and Russia guaranteeing Ukraine’s sovereignty, security, and territorial integrity.

Guess what we just did now? We turned our back on them. Traitor Trump has made this country a joke.

Obama failed to commit troops when Russia took over Crimea and the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk. Not that anyone in the US wanted him to.  But that treaty failed in 2014.  Eleven years ago.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

A threat to who? America? Laughable. They can't beat a second-rate landlocked nation like Ukraine who is right next door. There's not a credible threat from Russia aside from potential nuclear attack, but even that threat is miles less than it's been in my own lifetime. Your Russian bogeyman is just shadows on the wall.

Yes. To America. First. The Russians can easily beat the Ukrainians . IF they didn’t want to have Ukraine intact to exploit its people and lands. If they didn’t, they could just use some tactical nukes. Scorched earth. As they build up more lands. Estonia, Lithuania ..Russia becomes stronger and more influential. Eventually we are back to a stronger Russian conglomerate. And they don’t NEED to keep America whole. They can scorch earth it.

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A threat to who? America? Laughable. They can't beat a second-rate landlocked nation like Ukraine who is right next door. There's not a credible threat from Russia aside from potential nuclear attack, but even that threat is miles less than it's been in my own lifetime. Your Russian bogeyman is just shadows on the wall.

Yes. To America. First. The Russians can easily beat the Ukrainians . IF they didn’t want to have Ukraine intact to exploit its people and lands. If they didn’t, they could just use some tactical nukes. Scorched earth. As they build up more lands. Estonia, Lithuania ..Russia becomes stronger and more influential. Eventually we are back to a stronger Russian conglomerate. A don’t NEED to keep America whole. They can scorch earth it.

You need to lay off the histrionics. And why are you worried? Macron told Europe they are going to go fight Russia just this morning. Russia is not our problem any longer, the Euros are going to save the free world, lol.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Yes. To America. First. The Russians can easily beat the Ukrainians . IF they didn’t want to have Ukraine intact to exploit its people and lands. If they didn’t, they could just use some tactical nukes. Scorched earth. As they build up more lands. Estonia, Lithuania ..Russia becomes stronger and more influential. Eventually we are back to a stronger Russian conglomerate. A don’t NEED to keep America whole. They can scorch earth it.

You need to lay off the histrionics. And why are you worried? Macron told Europe they are going to go fight Russia just this morning. Russia is not our problem any longer, the Euros are going to save the free world, lol.

If the world needs to rely on the French Military....... WE'RE DOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Yes. To America. First. The Russians can easily beat the Ukrainians . IF they didn’t want to have Ukraine intact to exploit its people and lands. If they didn’t, they could just use some tactical nukes. Scorched earth. As they build up more lands. Estonia, Lithuania ..Russia becomes stronger and more influential. Eventually we are back to a stronger Russian conglomerate. A don’t NEED to keep America whole. They can scorch earth it.

You need to lay off the histrionics. And why are you worried? Macron told Europe they are going to go fight Russia just this morning. Russia is not our problem any longer, the Euros are going to save the free world, lol.

No histrionics from me. We’ve seen the history here.

Appeasement and isolationism don’t work.

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You need to lay off the histrionics. And why are you worried? Macron told Europe they are going to go fight Russia just this morning. Russia is not our problem any longer, the Euros are going to save the free world, lol.

No histrionics from me. We’ve seen the history here.

Appeasement and isolationism don’t work.

Past performance is no indication of future results. Welcome to the real world. Regardless, Ukraine is not America's problem, we have not material interest of national import in that country other than Democrat politicians using it as a money Maytag. We don't need to appease or to isolate, Russia isn't our problem either. Trump said he was going to get them to peace, and that's what he's doing.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

No histrionics from me. We’ve seen the history here.

Appeasement and isolationism don’t work.

Past performance is no indication of future results. Welcome to the real world. Regardless, Ukraine is not America's problem, we have not material interest of national import in that country other than Democrat politicians using it as a money Maytag. We don't need to appease or to isolate, Russia isn't our problem either. Trump said he was going to get them to peace, and that's what he's doing.

Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
Ukraine is definitely Americans issue. It’s the key to controlling Russian aggression . We don’t need to return to another Soviet era type Cold War which is exactly where Putin wants to go. Putins ability to manipulate Trump should give every patriotic American pause.

Tell you what. Explain in detail how pausing aid to Ukraine and suspending cyber attacks on Russia will send a message to Putin that he should withdraw troops from Russia and seek peace.

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Past performance is no indication of future results. Welcome to the real world. Regardless, Ukraine is not America's problem, we have not material interest of national import in that country other than Democrat politicians using it as a money Maytag. We don't need to appease or to isolate, Russia isn't our problem either. Trump said he was going to get them to peace, and that's what he's doing.

Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
Ukraine is definitely Americans issue. It’s the key to controlling Russian aggression . We don’t need to return to another Soviet era type Cold War which is exactly where Putin wants to go. Putins ability to manipulate Trump should give every patriotic American pause.

Tell you what. Explain in detail how pausing aid to Ukraine and suspending cyber attacks on Russia will send a message to Putin that he should withdraw troops from Russia and seek peace.

You think we need to control Russian aggression while I don't give a [BLEEP] about Russian aggression. Nothing needs to be explained, we have no business being involved. You're the one stuck in a Cold War mindset and your solution is to make it an actual shooting war, one that you noticeably refuse to participate in yourself even when given repeated opportunity to do so. Just accept that you're a little chickenhawk who wants other people's children to die for your beliefs and that because of that not one single thing you say matters.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
Ukraine is definitely Americans issue. It’s the key to controlling Russian aggression . We don’t need to return to another Soviet era type Cold War which is exactly where Putin wants to go. Putins ability to manipulate Trump should give every patriotic American pause.

Tell you what. Explain in detail how pausing aid to Ukraine and suspending cyber attacks on Russia will send a message to Putin that he should withdraw troops from Russia and seek peace.

You think we need to control Russian aggression while I don't give a [BLEEP] about Russian aggression. Nothing needs to be explained, we have no business being involved. You're the one stuck in a Cold War mindset and your solution is to make it an actual shooting war, one that you noticeably refuse to participate in yourself even when given repeated opportunity to do so. Just accept that you're a little chickenhawk who wants other people's children to die for your beliefs and that because of that not one single thing you say matters.

I get that you don’t care about Russian aggression. Prior to world war 1 and 2 no one cared about German aggression as they rolled smaller countries up either. And each time we ended with a world war. We then ended up with a Cold War with the Soviet Union , the result of Russian aggression . Which also cost American lives ( Vietnam /korea) and had us on the brink of nuclear destruction a number of times.

And now we again face an authoritarian aggressor from Russia. A man who longs to build Russia back to the Cold War era. That thrived during that era. Thats already attacked America with cyber attacks on infrastructure. And they have tried to influence our elections.

We either stop Russian aggression now. Or we face another larger war that might cause the destruction of the world as we know it.

I ask you again as you failed to answer.

Explain in detail how pausing aid to Ukraine and suspending cyber attacks on Russia will send a message to Putin that he should withdraw troops from Russia and seek peace

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