Yeah, we pretty much can summize that Teddy's value has fallen with a lot of teams, theres been enough smoke being blown that theres probably fire there. 

 

My opinion on Teddy hasn't changed. 

 

But again, you don't pay 20 bucks for something if you can get it for 10, regardless if you know its still worth 20.....Ok, maybe you would, but its bad business. 

 

And Manziel has risen up a bit in my eyes. I wouldn't mind drafting him as a consolation prize. 

 

Again, I'm not Gene Smith, so I'll actually have contingency plans so I can maximize opportunities in the draft should value present itself, via trade opportunities or other. 

And what about when no one wants to sell him to you for 10? You keep ignoring the fact that trading down isn't nearly as easy as you think...and it's just getting worse and worse for the selling teams lately. 4th rounder to go from 8 to 5 for Blackmon...2nd rounder to go from 12 to 3 for Dion Jordan. You're reeeeeally getting yourself all worked up for something that is quite unlikely to happen and if it does won't net the haul you expect anyway. But I guess trading down for too cheap would give you something new to complain about so I guess you wouldn't mind that either. 

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Yeah, we pretty much can summize that Teddy's value has fallen with a lot of teams, theres been enough smoke being blown that theres probably fire there. 

 

My opinion on Teddy hasn't changed. 

 

But again, you don't pay 20 bucks for something if you can get it for 10, regardless if you know its still worth 20.....Ok, maybe you would, but its bad business. 

 

Only that you may not get it for 10... the team behind you also needs a QB and may like the QB a lot as well.  So you will likely miss out on your guy.

 

And Manziel has risen up a bit in my eyes. I wouldn't mind drafting him as a consolation prize. 

 

Again, I'm not Gene Smith, so I'll actually have contingency plans so I can maximize opportunities in the draft should value present itself, via trade opportunities or other. 

 

You're just unsure of your evaluation skills.  If you were as sure now as your were before that Teddy is the next best thing, the next Aikman/Luck prospect, you wouldn't care about "value".. you would run to the podium #3 with his name on the card because getting that next great QB at #3 IS great value.

 

"get the QB, and the rest will take care of itself" right?  Wasn't that your signature?  Suddenly that QB you've been pimping so long is a mere afterthought.  He might be staring you in the face at #3 and you would trade back... lol

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And what about when no one wants to sell him to you for 10? You keep ignoring the fact that trading down isn't nearly as easy as you think...and it's just getting worse and worse for the selling teams lately. 4th rounder to go from 8 to 5 for Blackmon...2nd rounder to go from 12 to 3 for Dion Jordan. You're reeeeeally getting yourself all worked up for something that is quite unlikely to happen and if it does won't net the haul you expect anyway. But I guess trading down for too cheap would give you something new to complain about so I guess you wouldn't mind that either. 

 

Trading down isn't hard for other teams. We just think its hard since we haven't done it much. 

 

 

 

You're just unsure of your evaluation skills.  If you were as sure now as your were before that Teddy is the next best thing, the next Aikman/Luck prospect, you wouldn't care about "value".. you would run to the podium #3 with his name on the card because getting that next great QB at #3 IS great value.

 

"get the QB, and the rest will take care of itself" right?  Wasn't that your signature?  Suddenly that QB you've been pimping so long is a mere afterthought.  He might be staring you in the face at #3 and you would trade back... lol

 

If you can still "get the QB" even after trading down and stockpiling some more picks then you're even further ahead of the game. 

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If you can still "get the QB" even after trading down and stockpiling some more picks then you're even further ahead of the game. 

 

Well duh.  don't you realize that it may not work out that way?

 

You trade back and BAM... Bridgewater is gone.  You traded down to 5 for example.

 

Bridgewater goes #3 and Manziel goes #4.  

 

Based on your impeccable QB evaluation skills, both of these QBs go on to become franchise QBs.

 

Great work GM TMD.  Way to maximize your "value" lol

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Well duh.  don't you realize that it may not work out that way?

 

You trade back and BAM... Bridgewater is gone.  You traded down to 5 for example.

 

Bridgewater goes #3 and Manziel goes #4.  

 

Based on your impeccable QB evaluation skills, both of these QBs go on to become franchise QBs.

 

Great work GM TMD.  Way to maximize your "value" lol

 

.....and there'd still be good players, valuable players available. 

 

The above scenario wouldn;t be the end of the world. Gilbert would still be a great get, Mack might still be there, maybe Matthews....

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Value is just a dumb term.


Get YOUR guys

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Value is just a dumb term.


Get YOUR guys

 

Exactly. The draft isnt about getting value, at the end of the day its how many good players were added to your team. If you think a player is very good, and is at the top of your board, why would you risk losing them by trading back because you are guessing other teams dont value him as high as you? Makes no sense. 

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no doubt you got beat up a lot in school. 

 

 

Last time I checked there were 7 rounds in the draft. 

 

Picking 1st every round is always better than what the Jags lot is in this draft. 

 

I was still right in wanting the Jags to get the 1st pick. You'll always be wrong if you try and argue otherwise, knowing you, you still will... 1st pick every round = the most options.

So you wouldn't be complaining right now about how terrible a hire Gus was if we had ended up with the first pick?

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Exactly. The draft isnt about getting value, at the end of the day its how many good players were added to your team. If you think a player is very good, and is at the top of your board, why would you risk losing them by trading back because you are guessing other teams dont value him as high as you? Makes no sense. 

There is an art of maximizing value as TMD wants, he just vastly underestimates how easy it is to just trade back...and he also uses the Alualu straw man example which I understand because it was the Jags but it was also executed by possibly the worst GM of all time. 

 

Taking a guy you have graded 6th at 3 isn't not maximizing value. Taking a guy rating mid 2nd round at best 10th overall is not maximizing value, especially when you whiffed on the evaluation to begin with. 

 

So essentially TMD is right in theory, he is just taking it to far too extreme of a level to make this example logical. 

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NFC Executive: Teddy Bridgewater is a "Fourth-Round Guy"
Updated April 18, 2014 
By Charlie Campbell - @draftcampbell 

Over the final months leading up to the 2014 NFL Draft, there have been a lot of reports of Louisville quarterback Teddy Bridgewater falling lower than expected on draft day. They've become more commonplace with each passing week. 

This isn't news to teams though. They've told us that the national media is simply catching up, and that it has overrated Bridgewater during his collegiate career and throughout the draft process. 

We've reached out to many teams about Bridgewater, and all have been down on him. Perhaps the most glaring response we've heard came from an executive with an NFC playoff team that has no need for a starting quarterback. They have their franchise signal-caller, but they could use a reserve, so we asked this executive his thoughts on some quarterbacks, including Bridgewater. 

The NFC executive said that he thought Bridgewater was a "fourth-round guy" and will fall out of the first round. He said that there isn't anything exceptional about Bridgewater's skill set, as he doesn't have an elite arm, size or mobility. Because of that, he felt that Bridgewater is a fourth-round talent. 

Another scouting director picking in the top 20 that could consider a quarterback told us that his team never had Bridgewater as a first-round pick. They said he's carried a second-round grade throughout the process. They still have him as a second-round pick after his much-maligned pro day. 

Sources from three teams in the top 10 have told us that they have Blake Bortles and Derek Carr graded ahead of Bridgewater. One team also has A.J. McCarron rated ahead of Bridgewater. 

Six different franchises, including those three in the top 10, have said they believe that Bridgewater is going to fall much lower than expected on draft day and could easily drop out of the first round because teams aren't grading him as a first-round pick. 

 

He's going to end up as a UDFA at this rate...

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.....and there'd still be good players, valuable players available.


The above scenario wouldn;t be the end of the world. Gilbert would still be a great get, Mack might still be there, maybe Matthews....

Pass on a Aikman/Luck prospect to draft a small school LB thats built just like Larry Hart. Gotcha

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If you think Bridgewater is one of the best players in the draft and he is sitting there at 3, you dont trade back just because you believe no one else has him as a top 10 pick.  If you're wrong and someone takes him before your traded back pick, you'd be the biggest dope in the world.  

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

This clearly illustrates that TMD doesn't even think Teddy is a franchise QB.. He will continue to say he is just to save face, but it's clear as day.

 

He is now OK with Mack, Matthews, Manziel and Gilbert instead of the Aikman/Luck prospect that Teddy supposedly is.

 

This coming from a guy that had "Get the QB, the rest will take care of itself" as his signature.

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If you think Bridgewater is one of the best players in the draft and he is sitting there at 3, you dont trade back just because you believe no one else has him as a top 10 pick.  If you're wrong and someone takes him before your traded back pick, you'd be the biggest dope in the world.  

 

Problem is, even TMD doesn't think he's the best player or one of the best players in the draft.  He will continue to claim he does, but it's very clear he's slowly realizing that Teddy really isn't the prospect he thought he was.

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Problem is, even TMD doesn't think he's the best player or one of the best players in the draft.  He will continue to claim he does, but it's very clear he's slowly realizing that Teddy really isn't the prospect he thought he was.

 

Ya know I dont really see why he or anyone else should be afraid to change one's opinion.  You base your initial opinion based on the facts you know at that time.  When you acquire more facts, they may contradict your original thought so your opinion changes.  

 

Maybe its embarassing to admit your initial and current opinion are based on the evaluations of others?  I have no problem admitting that my opinion of Teddy has gone down a little(even considering it was never that high to begin with) and that my opinion of Manziel has gone up a little after hearing/reading all the pro's and con's of each argued by experts who know more than I do.  You read something Mayock says.  You hear something a scout says.  If its a good point you hadnt thought of, why wouldnt you alter your opinion?  Nothing "stupider" than clinging to a bad opinion because of nothing more than pride.

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Scouting well is all that matters.  Draft philosophy is all fluff.

Ya know I dont really see why he or anyone else should be afraid to change one's opinion.  You base your initial opinion based on the facts you know at that time.  When you acquire more facts, they may contradict your original thought so your opinion changes.  

 

Maybe its embarassing to admit your initial and current opinion are based on the evaluations of others?  I have no problem admitting that my opinion of Teddy has gone down a little(even considering it was never that high to begin with) and that my opinion of Manziel has gone up a little after hearing/reading all the pro's and con's of each argued by experts who know more than I do.  You read something Mayock says.  You hear something a scout.  If its a good point you hadnt thought of why wouldnt you alter your opinion?  Thats dumb.

 

I fully agree.  Problem is with TMD, he has spent months and months b1tching about the fact we're not tanking for Teddy.  He has been very vocal and argumentative when it comes to Teddy.  People months ago would say "I'm not sold on Teddy" or "let's just enjoy these wins and we'll see what happens in the draft" to which TMD responded in his usual manner, how Jaguars fans don't know what they're talking about, how we need a QB badly, how the Texans will draft him now and then we'll be losers for another decade, etc.

 

He's not a reasonable person.  

 

 

Now, if you come out now and say "I had Bridgewater very high, but the more I watched him and the more I learned about him, the less I like him"... I would applaud you for that.  Changing your mind is a good thing.

 

A person like TMD changing his mind about something like Teddy would be such a LOL moment though.  Spend months and months crying and whining and hoping we tank and figuring out conspiracy theories how the Texans tanked on purpose to draft Teddy all for nothing.  

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There is an art of maximizing value as TMD wants, he just vastly underestimates how easy it is to just trade back...and he also uses the Alualu straw man example which I understand because it was the Jags but it was also executed by possibly the worst GM of all time. 

 

Taking a guy you have graded 6th at 3 isn't not maximizing value. Taking a guy rating mid 2nd round at best 10th overall is not maximizing value, especially when you whiffed on the evaluation to begin with. 

 

So essentially TMD is right in theory, he is just taking it to far too extreme of a level to make this example logical. 

 

If a guy is at the top of your board how do you know where other teams rank him? Point is, say a team is very high on Russel Wilson (phily) and they want to "maximize value" for getting him even though he is the top ranked player on their board. You wait an extra round and lose out on the top player you had because you guessed wrong on where other people valued him. 

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I think the Jags take BAP at 3 (mack or watkins), or BAP if they can trade back a few spots.

 

Then I think they trade back into the back of the First with the extra picks they've gained for a QB, and I hope that QB is Carr.  That guy has franchise potential.

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TMD cried about Teddy being Luck/Manning/Elway/Aikman caliber prospect and now he's tap dancing backwards faster than Gregory Hines.


Poor guy just doesn't get embarrassed at himself. Even while we are all laughing at him.


#Tank4Teddy

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