You're right, Bortles is somewhere in between Manziel and Bridgewater...but that goes both ways.

 

Yes, Bortles has better pocket presence than Manziel...but he's no Bridgewater in that regard.

 

Yes, Bortles reads coverage better than Manziel...but he's no Bridgewater in that regard.

 

Yes, Bortles understands offense better than Manziel...but he's no Bridgewater in that regard.

 

Yes, Bortles has better mechanics and footwork than Manziel...but he's more raw than Bridgewater in that regard as well.

 

I'll send this to Dave right away and let him know what a mistake he made, and every other GM for that matter. 31 teams just missed on the next Peyton ManningBreesBradyRodgers.

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Reading a defense can be subjectable. Just look at a guy like Derek Carr. How do you evaluate a guy like that when 80% of his throws are behind the LOS?


The thing is, with Bridgewater...yes, you can't always say he made the right reads not knowing his play's options and what exactly the defense is supposed to be doing. However, you can watch him...and you can see that his head swivels. You see him go from one side of the field, to the other before he makes a throw. Sometimes you even see him go back if he doesn't like what he sees on the opposite side.


This is a drastic contrast to most college QBs, and even Blake and UCF's offense, where a lot of the throws are one/two read then throw the ball.


The Jaguars only worked out Teddy once more time after his pro-day, though not much was heard from it really. We do know that Minny worked him out as well (this time with glove on), and we do have accounts from Norv Turner on how he did in those workouts.

If Minn. Thought Teddy was so great they would of took him at 8. But every team in the league passed on him. I think i trust what the 32 GMs in the league see than some guy on a message board.

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I agree, saying like "IT factor" are basically meaningless and should be used by guys like Skip Bayless.

 

What we can quantify is, for instance, number of comeback wins, which I think is a nice statistic.

 

For me, the best attribute that Bortles has is his passing on the run ability and his pocket awareness.  I think he'll buy time with his feet a lot of times, for which guys like Marqise Lee will greatly benefit.

 

Wins is a bad stat (otherwise we might as well have drafted Tebow). UCF beat Louisville. Did Bortles beat Teddy, despite Bridgewater giving his team a lead with just 3 mins to go? By the time Blake was done and UCF took the lead, Bridgewater only had 23 seconds left. Barring miracles, 23 seconds isn't enough to get a tie...much less a win.

 

We had a game last season (or the one before) where Blaine should have had a comeback win, only to see our defense completely collapse with what? 18 seconds on the clock? Did Blaine "fail" a comeback in that regard, despite him putting his team in a position to win?

 

Bortles has the better arm between him and Teddy...providing his mechanics are sound. I was in awe when I saw Blake's pro-day. Rarely did I see that kind of zip in any of his games while at UCF. That day, you saw the arm that a 6'5, 235 quarterback SHOULD have, not the wobbly sometimes shotput-esque balls he threw during the games.

 

Blake can shrug off hits better than Teddy, but I think on the run Teddy is better than him (goes back to Teddy having better mechanics, as he really squares his body even on the move, whereas Blake has a tendency to rely on his arm).

 

I think Blake has a better deep ball than Teddy, but JF is better than him in that regard.

 

And I think, that is why I'm not very high on Blake. Because yes, he doesn't have a glaring weakness. He's solid to good on most QB check boxes. But there's also not one thing that he does that I can say..."yes, that's it...he's really really REALLY good at that"

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I'll send this to Dave right away and let him know what a mistake he made, and every other GM for that matter. 31 teams just missed on the next Peyton ManningBreesBradyRodgers.

 

Ironic you used that on your example. That's proof right there on why you should never use the "every other GM" or "31 teams passed on him" argument.

 

Thank you for a classic example of FAIL

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If Minn. Thought Teddy was so great they would of took him at 8. But every team in the league passed on him. I think i trust what the 32 GMs in the league see than some guy on a message board.

 

Or you can say they smartly gambled that 31 other teams didn't do the extra work on Bridgewater after his pro day that they did and would let him slide...thus allowing them to take a player they liked (Barr), while still giving them the opportunity to get Bridgewater at a most excellent value later on.

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Or you can say they smartly gambled that 31 other teams didn't do the extra work on Bridgewater after his pro day that they did and would let him slide...thus allowing them to take a player they liked (Barr), while still giving them the opportunity to get Bridgewater at a most excellent value later on.

 

Jags did their extra homework.  He was the only guy that had 2 visits to Jacksonville IIRC (Bridgewater was).

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Wins is a bad stat (otherwise we might as well have drafted Tebow). UCF beat Louisville. Did Bortles beat Teddy, despite Bridgewater giving his team a lead with just 3 mins to go? By the time Blake was done and UCF took the lead, Bridgewater only had 23 seconds left. Barring miracles, 23 seconds isn't enough to get a tie...much less a win.

 

You'll have some go both ways.

 

And I didn't say just wins, but comeback wins specifically.  It doesn't mean HE is the only reason they won... it just checks off another box... 

 

When given the opportunity late in the game, can he get it done?  On multiple times, he has shown he can.

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Jags did their extra homework.  He was the only guy that had 2 visits to Jacksonville IIRC (Bridgewater was).

 

We had two visits, one where Teddy worked out the other just a visit (like the other players). I don't know how that workout went. We can guess that it didn't go well, or we can guess that it went well but that Dave was already set on taking Blake (seems like he had his eyes set on him the entire time, based on the interviews after the pick).

 

We do know that the Vikings worked out Teddy in Minny, and then came down to Florida to work him out again. And Turner raved about that 2nd visit.

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You'll have some go both ways.

 

And I didn't say just wins, but comeback wins specifically.  It doesn't mean HE is the only reason they won... it just checks off another box... 

 

When given the opportunity late in the game, can he get it done?  On multiple times, he has shown he can.

 

But as the example I showed of Gabbert...he gave us a lead with 18 seconds left in the game. It doesn't "tick" as a "comeback win", but you couldn't have asked more of him at that point.

 

At the same token, Bridgewater gave his team the lead with 3 minutes left, and he was only given 23 seconds to try and get it back. Should he have been realistically expected to get a win with 23 seconds left? Yes, it has been done. But is it a realistic expectation?

 

Which is why...these stats of wins, comeback wins, touchdowns, yards. Yes, they are quantifiable. But what are they really worth? I rather ignore those stats and just isolate my evaluation on the player alone.

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We had two visits, one where Teddy worked out the other just a visit (like the other players). I don't know how that workout went. We can guess that it didn't go well, or we can guess that it went well but that Dave was already set on taking Blake (seems like he had his eyes set on him the entire time, based on the interviews after the pick).

 

We do know that the Vikings worked out Teddy in Minny, and then came down to Florida to work him out again. And Turner raved about that 2nd visit.

 

coaches drafting a player and then raving about it is normal, it doesn't tell you too much.

 

I just think that with the number of QB needy teams in the NFL deciding to say "no thanks" to Teddy, it speaks volumes.  

 

You have to be able to perform.  He didn't throw at the combine because he was hiding his arm/accuracy.  He then had to do a pro-day, and failed.... on his 3rd time around (during private team workouts), barring some miraculous workout, most teams probably confirmed that he may not have the arm/accuracy needed in a franchise QB.  

 

I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance, but his "off-season" and draft preparation was pretty much a fail from start to finish.

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But as the example I showed of Gabbert...he gave us a lead with 18 seconds left in the game. It doesn't "tick" as a "comeback win", but you couldn't have asked more of him at that point.

 

At the same token, Bridgewater gave his team the lead with 3 minutes left, and he was only given 23 seconds to try and get it back. Should he have been realistically expected to get a win with 23 seconds left? Yes, it has been done. But is it a realistic expectation?

 

Which is why...these stats of wins, comeback wins, touchdowns, yards. Yes, they are quantifiable. But what are they really worth? I rather ignore those stats and just isolate my evaluation on the player alone.

 

I'm not just looking at the stats...  If Gabbert did that sort of thing 10 times in his career thus far, (winning 5 and losing 5 in the process like the game against Minnesota), I would still say Gabbert is clutch in late games.  He can't control what the defense did in the end.

 

And I said the same thing about Bridgewater against UCF last year.. Bridgewater did enough for them to win, and the defense let them down.  

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coaches drafting a player and then raving about it is normal, it doesn't tell you too much.

 

I just think that with the number of QB needy teams in the NFL deciding to say "no thanks" to Teddy, it speaks volumes.  

 

You have to be able to perform.  He didn't throw at the combine because he was hiding his arm/accuracy.  He then had to do a pro-day, and failed.... on his 3rd time around (during private team workouts), barring some miraculous workout, most teams probably confirmed that he may not have the arm/accuracy needed in a franchise QB.  

 

I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance, but his "off-season" and draft preparation was pretty much a fail from start to finish.

 

The thing is...he did perform. Do you take the pro day( without the glove) or do you take 3 years worth of film (with the glove)? Because if you take the pro day, you say "Wow, he has accuracy problems". Then you put on the tape (with the glove) and you see the most accurate QB in this draft from the short to intermediate routes.

 

I mean, no one had "accuracy" (except maybe deep ball accuracy) as a knock on Bridgewater until his pro-day happened. Then suddenly, its a concern.

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Drafting a QB 32nd overall basically means

 

"I think he has a chance to be our starter"... you're not really hoping or expecting franchise QB play.

 

If some team had Teddy ranked as a "franchise QB" he would have went to us, the Browns, the Raiders, the Vikings, etc.....  All of those teams passed on him, some twice.

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Drafting a QB 32nd overall basically means

 

"I think he has a chance to be our starter"... you're not really hoping or expecting franchise QB play.

 

If some team had Teddy ranked as a "franchise QB" he would have went to us, the Browns, the Raiders, the Vikings, etc.....  All of those teams passed on him, some twice.

 

Or its possible they got it wrong, for whatever reason. We'll see soon enough. I still maintain that based on what I saw, Bridgewater is the best QB in this draft. Bortles might "project" to be a better player down the road, but right now? I don't think he is.

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The thing is...he did perform. Do you take the pro day( without the glove) or do you take 3 years worth of film (with the glove)? Because if you take the pro day, you say "Wow, he has accuracy problems". Then you put on the tape (with the glove) and you see the most accurate QB in this draft from the short to intermediate routes.

 

I mean, no one had "accuracy" (except maybe deep ball accuracy) as a knock on Bridgewater until his pro-day happened. Then suddenly, its a concern.

 

I'll be the first one to admit that I haven't seen every single throw TB made in college, so I can't really comment about his accuracy.  That's what scouts are for.  THey actually look at whether it was accurate (not just whether it was complete) and whether the QB hit the receiver in stride, etc.....

 

I just don't understand that if this accuracy was so good for him, why couldn't he just showcase it?  Why couldn't he SHOW people that he can do it, under controlled circumstances?  

 

And frankly I doubt the accuracy was the only thing that dropped him that far.

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Good god. Some of you guys are so butt hurt that this team didn't take Crapwater that it's pathetic..

 

Here.. Feel free ----------> http://vikingsmessageboard.com/ <-----------------------

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Or its possible they got it wrong, for whatever reason. We'll see soon enough. I still maintain that based on what I saw, Bridgewater is the best QB in this draft. Bortles might "project" to be a better player down the road, but right now? I don't think he is.

 

Oh of course they might be wrong.  Bridgewater could turn into the only HOF QB from this draft, it's certainly possible.

 

Is it likely?  I don't think so.  I think a lot of Bridgewaters strength were literally fabricated.  When people watched him, he looked like a nice pro-style QB playing college football.  Like an adult playing basketball with teenagers, boxing out, making the extra pass, doing layups from the backboard so to speak.  A lot of that "polish" but nothing that said "wow" to me.  

 

Then people started saying how his "intelligence" or his "ability to read defenses" or "pocket presence" was lightyears ahead of anybody elses...

 

then as people watched more, they saw a guy with an average arm, below average build, and below average athleticism....  

 

When it was time to showcase his skills like everyone else, he failed to do so.  Is he a miraculous player that performs ONLY under the bright lights?  Highly doubt it, but I guess it's possible.

 

If you're a team picking in the top 5, you can't go off of that though.  You gotta go with that guy that checked off all the boxes so to speak, and that guy was Blake Bortles.  Could Dave be wrong?  Sure, of course he can.  But I do trust (and agree) with the assessment that Blake is the only franchise QB (at this moment) in the draft.

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I'll be the first one to admit that I haven't seen every single throw TB made in college, so I can't really comment about his accuracy.  That's what scouts are for.  THey actually look at whether it was accurate (not just whether it was complete) and whether the QB hit the receiver in stride, etc.....

 

I just don't understand that if this accuracy was so good for him, why couldn't he just showcase it?  Why couldn't he SHOW people that he can do it, under controlled circumstances?  

 

And frankly I doubt the accuracy was the only thing that dropped him that far.

 

Teddy doesn't have ideal sized hands, which can lead to less grip. The glove helps him get better grip. HIs pro day he threw without the glove, and he was inaccurate. I don't know if he wore it here in Jacksonville, but he did for the workout with the Vikings.

 

Players drop for all kinds of reasons. Maybe it was the bad pro day. Maybe it was the size issues. Maybe teams just prefer more talkative and players with swag (no question that Dave/Gus likes those types based on the players we've brought in the past couple of years). Who knows. But GMs, scouts, and teams are far from infallible...and players who fall in the draft time and time again (but end up being great players) prove that just as players who rise in the draft (but fail to produce in the Pros) does.

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Teddy doesn't have ideal sized hands, which can lead to less grip. The glove helps him get better grip. HIs pro day he threw without the glove, and he was inaccurate. I don't know if he wore it here in Jacksonville, but he did for the workout with the Vikings.

 

Players drop for all kinds of reasons. Maybe it was the bad pro day. Maybe it was the size issues. Maybe teams just prefer more talkative and players with swag (no question that Dave/Gus likes those types based on the players we've brought in the past couple of years). Who knows. But GMs, scouts, and teams are far from infallible...and players who fall in the draft time and time again (but end up being great players) prove that just as players who rise in the draft (but fail to produce in the Pros) does.

 

Yes, but there is a direct correlation with draft pick and future production, so to speak.

 

The exact same argument can be used for a guy like Aaron Murray for example.   He may end up being a Drew Brees.... do I think he will? That's a definite no.

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Oh of course they might be wrong.  Bridgewater could turn into the only HOF QB from this draft, it's certainly possible.

 

Is it likely?  I don't think so.  I think a lot of Bridgewaters strength were literally fabricated.  When people watched him, he looked like a nice pro-style QB playing college football.  Like an adult playing basketball with teenagers, boxing out, making the extra pass, doing layups from the backboard so to speak.  A lot of that "polish" but nothing that said "wow" to me.  

 

Then people started saying how his "intelligence" or his "ability to read defenses" or "pocket presence" was lightyears ahead of anybody elses...

 

then as people watched more, they saw a guy with an average arm, below average build, and below average athleticism....  

 

 

He doesn't have an average arm or below average athleticism. Below average build? Yes.

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