Perhaps you are the one that is out of touch with reality... minimum wage is not supposed to be a means of support or a "living wage".

actually that is incorrect...minimum wage was designed to be a wage suitable to maintain a healthy and suitable lifestyle...through the years/decades, it has evolved into what you stated, but in it's infancy the intent was to create a wage where people could support themselves without having to depend on state welfare...you young-uns crack me up thinking you know everything and don't really know [BAD WORD REMOVED] about anything

---

why don't you do the math and show us just how to save money...take the minimum wage and multiply it by 40 (hours) and then by 52 weeks and divide that by 12...that will tell you how much gross one person makes on minimum wage per month and then figure out HOW they can pay for their housing, food, car. et.al and then tell us all how to save 10% when there isn't enough to begin with

 

Again, as I said earlier.  Minimum wage is not, nor was it ever meant to be a "living wage".

 

That aside, even a young person working their entry level job earning minimum wage can afford to save some, even if it is not the full 10%.  If a person over the age of 20 can only work a minimum wage job without moving up or getting a pay raise, perhaps there is another problem.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Again, as I said earlier.  Minimum wage is not, nor was it ever meant to be a "living wage".

 

That aside, even a young person working their entry level job earning minimum wage can afford to save some, even if it is not the full 10%.  If a person over the age of 20 can only work a minimum wage job without moving up or getting a pay raise, perhaps there is another problem.

NOW yes, but in it's infancy is was designed to be just that...and the point remains, people living on minimum wage don't have the means to save 10% like you have suggested

 

yeah the problem is the economy and corporate greed...ceo's making multi million dollar bonuses and salaries while they hire mostly part time workers paid minimum wage...walmart is one of the largest companies in the world who staff their stores with mostly part time people so they don't have to pay benefits and pay their corporate officers tons more

---

actually that is incorrect...minimum wage was designed to be a wage suitable to maintain a healthy and suitable lifestyle...through the years/decades, it has evolved into what you stated, but in it's infancy the intent was to create a wage where people could support themselves without having to depend on state welfare...you young-uns crack me up thinking you know everything and don't really know [BAD WORD REMOVED] about anything

 

Nope.  Minimum wage was created in this country as a tool for politicians.  It's part of the whole class warfare rhetoric.  A job has worth to a business and that business isn't going to pay anything more than the job's worth.

 

What exactly is a minimum wage job?  Someone who washes dishes in a restaurant?  Someone working at a fast food place?  What do jobs such as these have in common?  They require little to no skill to do.  Anyone with less than a high school education can do these jobs.  These kinds of jobs were typically held by high school or college students as an extra means of earning some cash.

 

I personally got my first (and only) minimum wage job at the age of 16.  I stayed at that wage exactly 90 days.  Even at that age with my lack of education/experience I was able to move up.

 

Somewhat as I said earlier, anyone over the age of 20 that can't get gainfully employed earning more than minimum wage has a problem.

---

There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Nope.  Minimum wage was created in this country as a tool for politicians.  It's part of the whole class warfare rhetoric.  A job has worth to a business and that business isn't going to pay anything more than the job's worth.

 

What exactly is a minimum wage job?  Someone who washes dishes in a restaurant?  Someone working at a fast food place?  What do jobs such as these have in common?  They require little to no skill to do.  Anyone with less than a high school education can do these jobs.  These kinds of jobs were typically held by high school or college students as an extra means of earning some cash.

 

I personally got my first (and only) minimum wage job at the age of 16.  I stayed at that wage exactly 90 days.  Even at that age with my lack of education/experience I was able to move up.

 

Somewhat as I said earlier, anyone over the age of 20 that can't get gainfully employed earning more than minimum wage has a problem.

wrong! minimum wage was created to afford american citizens a fair wage when employers were paying jack crap to workers and keeping the most money to themselves...this was wayyyy back when so I can understand why you don't know... again, some people don't have the education to move up past minimum wage and in some locations there are few jobs that pay more than minimum wage...where I live, the majority of jobs are retail jobs so minimum wage and slightly above are the norm...I make way over minimum wage, but only through experience and education...once again I say you are speaking with not only arrogance, but also ignorance to the people who make minimum wage...It's easy to say that people who can't make more than minimum wage have a problem, but it's pure arrogance to blame the entire minimum wage workforce themselves for their pay...and the point STILL remains, that people living on minimum wage don't have the means to save 10% of their weekly pay

 

most people who settle into a minimum wage job get raises so they go over minimum wage, but the unskilled workers are always going to have lower pay than skilled workers...But minimum wage isn't enough for a grown person to live on and it should be, that is the way it was designed to be when minimum wage was created way back before your time

---

Nope.  Minimum wage was created in this country as a tool for politicians.  It's part of the whole class warfare rhetoric.  A job has worth to a business and that business isn't going to pay anything more than the job's worth.

 

What exactly is a minimum wage job?  Someone who washes dishes in a restaurant?  Someone working at a fast food place?  What do jobs such as these have in common?  They require little to no skill to do.  Anyone with less than a high school education can do these jobs.  These kinds of jobs were typically held by high school or college students as an extra means of earning some cash.

 

I personally got my first (and only) minimum wage job at the age of 16.  I stayed at that wage exactly 90 days.  Even at that age with my lack of education/experience I was able to move up.

 

Somewhat as I said earlier, anyone over the age of 20 that can't get gainfully employed earning more than minimum wage has a problem.

 

You're correct. The problem is a lack of jobs.

---

If something can corrupt you, you're corrupted already.
- Bob Marley


 

You're correct. The problem is a lack of jobs.

and that leads to having more people applying for the jobs that are there, so employers can pay less because they know the people looking for jobs will settle for less just so they can have an income...I once worked a job where they paid well above minimum wage, but they treated their employees badly so they had a very high turnover rate...the employers attitude was we don't care, we get applications every day, we can replace you tomorrow and anyone else who doesn't like it here

---

On the topic of minimum wages and savings I agree no one on minimum wage is nor should be saving money, their sole goal should be focused on increasing their income by any means.


It's sad that there are people trying to support families on minimum wage. The why is really what matters. In my honest opinion the reason why is two fold.


One you have a blackmarket labor force because of the income tax and illegal immigration that has eliminated a large part of the skilled work force. What was once a respectable and profitable trade job such as flooring carpentry agriculture and so on is now dominated by a black market labor force. Change to a consumption tax and you'll eliminate that black market stealing from the American workers.


Second the rise of mega corporations killed small storefront business. It's given mega corporations are going to pay low wages. The solution is less mega corporations and more small business. Again government gets in the way creating regulations the small guy starting out just can't keep up with.

---

On the topic of minimum wages and savings I agree no one on minimum wage is nor should be saving money, their sole goal should be focused on increasing their income by any means.


It's sad that there are people trying to support families on minimum wage. The why is really what matters. In my honest opinion the reason why is two fold.


One you have a blackmarket labor force because of the income tax and illegal immigration that has eliminated a large part of the skilled work force. What was once a respectable and profitable trade job such as flooring carpentry agriculture and so on is now dominated by a black market labor force. Change to a consumption tax and you'll eliminate that black market stealing from the American workers.


Second the rise of mega corporations killed small storefront business. It's given mega corporations are going to pay low wages. The solution is less mega corporations and more small business. Again government gets in the way creating regulations the small guy starting out just can't keep up with.

This is one of the big things I do not understand. Illegal workers are a problem, I agree fully with this. I think most people will agree with this. However, what it does show, is that in an unregulated free market, employers will pay as little as they can. Not in relation to relative skill but as low as they can get away with to pad profits. When you have more people looking for good jobs than there are good jobs available, weather skilled or not, you find people willing to take much lower wages simply because they need income. If you don't have a minimum wage and a healthy one at all, what incentive is there at all for employers to pay a decent wage? I say there is zero incentive at all and in the end well over half the population (guessing here) suffers as a result. 

 

The taxation is a completely different issue that also needs to be addressed but it does not fix the obvious problem. There are way more people than there are "non minimum wage" type jobs. There probably isn't even enough to support half the population. There is no solution to this problem. In my opinion, you help support the half (or whatever the % is) by having a decent, livable minimum wage or you simply do not care about those people. 

---

One you have a blackmarket labor force because of the income tax and illegal immigration that has eliminated a large part of the skilled work force. What was once a respectable and profitable trade job such as flooring carpentry agriculture and so on is now dominated by a black market labor force.

Sorry Eric, but I have to disagree in just about every respect in regards to the agricultural workforce.


The above might have been the case 30 years ago, but it is much less prevelant these days than the general perception suggests.

---

Sorry Eric, but I have to disagree in just about every respect in regards to the agricultural workforce.


The above might have been the case 30 years ago, but it is much less prevelant these days than the general perception suggests.

Being you work in agriculture I'll concede to your knowledge.

---

This is one of the big things I do not understand. Illegal workers are a problem, I agree fully with this. I think most people will agree with this. However, what it does show, is that in an unregulated free market, employers will pay as little as they can. Not in relation to relative skill but as low as they can get away with to pad profits. When you have more people looking for good jobs than there are good jobs available, weather skilled or not, you find people willing to take much lower wages simply because they need income. If you don't have a minimum wage and a healthy one at all, what incentive is there at all for employers to pay a decent wage? I say there is zero incentive at all and in the end well over half the population (guessing here) suffers as a result.


The taxation is a completely different issue that also needs to be addressed but it does not fix the obvious problem. There are way more people than there are "non minimum wage" type jobs. There probably isn't even enough to support half the population. There is no solution to this problem. In my opinion, you help support the half (or whatever the % is) by having a decent, livable minimum wage or you simply do not care about those people.

If there was no black market economy not even the illegal immigrants would work for the wages they're paid. However I agree a 100% unregulated market isn't a possibility at this point, but what we have is so much regulation it's caused a stagnation in job creation and entrepreneurship. That's what I'm trying to say, to few people have the ability to create their own income and are forced to depend on these mega corporations for income.

---

This is one of the big things I do not understand. Illegal workers are a problem, I agree fully with this. I think most people will agree with this. However, what it does show, is that in an unregulated free market, employers will pay as little as they can. Not in relation to relative skill but as low as they can get away with to pad profits. When you have more people looking for good jobs than there are good jobs available, weather skilled or not, you find people willing to take much lower wages simply because they need income. If you don't have a minimum wage and a healthy one at all, what incentive is there at all for employers to pay a decent wage? I say there is zero incentive at all and in the end well over half the population (guessing here) suffers as a result. 

 

The taxation is a completely different issue that also needs to be addressed but it does not fix the obvious problem. There are way more people than there are "non minimum wage" type jobs. There probably isn't even enough to support half the population. There is no solution to this problem. In my opinion, you help support the half (or whatever the % is) by having a decent, livable minimum wage or you simply do not care about those people. 

I have worked in construction my entire working life other than the time I spent in the Navy...what I have seen first hand is many ( not all but a lot) of employers in the construction field pay their illegal workers $8 - $12 (cash under the table) depending on how long they have worked for them...They get no real benefits. Sometimes the younger illegals keep their families home while they work here but they send home most of their money...$8- $12 an hour in American currency is a huge salary in Mexico...One man I worked with on several different jobs ( different companies but same job) had worked for the same man for 20 years leaving his family at home  and sending most of his pay home and just going home a couple times a year...With the money he sent home, his family bought a 1600 acre farm and built a nice home which was paid off...They live like Kings in Mexico

 

Some of the younger one leave their families at home until they have a pretty good chunk of change saved and then they have their families come...

 

They are willing to work for such low pay because when they send it home, their families live very well because  their salary is huge as compared to Mexican standards and they can also save a ton of it and live very well

---

If there was no black market economy not even the illegal immigrants would work for the wages they're paid. However I agree a 100% unregulated market isn't a possibility at this point, but what we have is so much regulation it's caused a stagnation in job creation and entrepreneurship. That's what I'm trying to say, to few people have the ability to create their own income and are forced to depend on these mega corporations for income.

 

Which regulations do you think we should repeal? 

---

Which regulations do you think we should repeal? 

I know you were not asking me, but Obamacare should be trashed...While in principle, it's a great idea, many small business owners have cut full time workers down to more part time workers to get around the regulations...Many corporations have followed suit with hiring more part time workers than full time workers to ensure their workers don't get enough hours that they have to provide insurance to them...

---

I know you were not asking me, but Obamacare should be trashed...While in principle, it's a great idea, many small business owners have cut full time workers down to more part time workers to get around the regulations...Many corporations have followed suit with hiring more part time workers than full time workers to ensure their workers don't get enough hours that they have to provide insurance to them...

 

Obamacare is a symptom of the problem of 3rd party health financing. If we would disconnect the premium from the employer we would see the development of an affordable and functional individual policy marketplace that would curb both the cost explosion and over-utilization of services. But that doesn't let the government control people so it will never happen. Healthcare financing should not involve your employer, period.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

Obamacare is a symptom of the problem of 3rd party health financing. If we would disconnect the premium from the employer we would see the development of an affordable and functional individual policy marketplace that would curb both the cost explosion and over-utilization of services. But that doesn't let the government control people so it will never happen. Healthcare financing should not involve your employer, period.

with that thought or mindset, then retirement planning shouldn't be part of an employers responsibility either...It's important to keep in mind, that things like health insurance and retirement planning are actually benefits provided for by the employer and not a right...

 

I believe that the problem with the healthcare system is that the hospitals and related medical facilities are pricing procedures and testing with unregulated guidelines...I was in SC in 2002 when i woke up with blood on my pillow and down the side face coming from my ear on a weekend...I went to the ER and they supplied me with ONE pain pill and a prescription for the exact pill in a 30 day quantity, and told me to see my regular doctor asap. When I got my prescription filled it was like $12 for a 30 day supply...When I got the bill from the hospital, they had charged me $26 for ONE pill...The medical industry needs to be looked into and revamped...I hate to say regulated because I'm not in favor of government controlling business, but things like that should not go unchallenged or allowed...

---

with that thought or mindset, then retirement planning shouldn't be part of an employers responsibility either...It's important to keep in mind, that things like health insurance and retirement planning are actually benefits provided for by the employer and not a right...

 

I believe that the problem with the healthcare system is that the hospitals and related medical facilities are pricing procedures and testing with unregulated guidelines...I was in SC in 2002 when i woke up with blood on my pillow and down the side face coming from my ear on a weekend...I went to the ER and they supplied me with ONE pain pill and a prescription for the exact pill in a 30 day quantity, and told me to see my regular doctor asap. When I got my prescription filled it was like $12 for a 30 day supply...When I got the bill from the hospital, they had charged me $26 for ONE pill...The medical industry needs to be looked into and revamped...I hate to say regulated because I'm not in favor of government controlling business, but things like that should not go unchallenged or allowed...

 

You're right, the government shouldn't be able to force an employer to provider a retirement for their employees. But the view from the Left is that fringe benefits are actually rights that employers should be required to provide.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You're right, the government shouldn't be able to force an employer to provider a retirement for their employees. But the view from the Left is that fringe benefits are actually rights that employers should be required to provide.

ok then, so now we don't have benefits, we have rights?

---

with that thought or mindset, then retirement planning shouldn't be part of an employers responsibility either...It's important to keep in mind, that things like health insurance and retirement planning are actually benefits provided for by the employer and not a right...

 

I believe that the problem with the healthcare system is that the hospitals and related medical facilities are pricing procedures and testing with unregulated guidelines...I was in SC in 2002 when i woke up with blood on my pillow and down the side face coming from my ear on a weekend...I went to the ER and they supplied me with ONE pain pill and a prescription for the exact pill in a 30 day quantity, and told me to see my regular doctor asap. When I got my prescription filled it was like $12 for a 30 day supply...When I got the bill from the hospital, they had charged me $26 for ONE pill...The medical industry needs to be looked into and revamped...I hate to say regulated because I'm not in favor of government controlling business, but things like that should not go unchallenged or allowed...

 

Hospital fee schedules are based on prices provided by the Center For Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). Those prices are based on the Relative Value Unit structure where each procedure is priced based on three expense factors: labor, overhead, and malpractice. Health care facilities don't just pull numbers out of the air, they create their fees based on the CMS schedule.

 

In your particular anecdote, the cost to you for your pain pill is the cost of having a specific prescription delivered to you in the Emergency Department of a first world health care facility, the most expensive form of health care that exists in the world. The best way to curb this, aside from the individual market I already mentioned, is to create an intermediary care facility, like modern Urgent Care, that keeps non-life threatening cases out of the Emergency Room. That system wasn't really in place in 2002, but it's becoming more common as hospital systems invest in "ER Avoidance Programs" to lower their own costs. My own system is affiliated with a large Urgent Care network and we're currently developing agreements with several specialists to be "immediate care providers" who will accept same day referrals from PCPs that would normally go to the ER. Anytime we can provide care in a setting other than the ER it's a win in the "cost reduction" column, which really is good for everyone.

---

“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato