There’s been a lot of talk about enhanced interrogation techniques. Do you feel it was necessary to get vital information to save US lives? Or was it just payback torture?

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Study after study after study says information from torture isn't reliable.


I don't think it was payback but I think it was wrong and we shouldn't do it.

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Study after study after study says information from torture isn't reliable.


I don't think it was payback but I think it was wrong and we shouldn't do it.

 

I agree.   The United States of America should not torture prisoners.   

 

If  we resort to torture, what can we say when our enemies torture captured American servicemen and women?     How can we hold ourselves up as any kind of moral authority when we do things like that?  

 

Besides, I don't think it saves any lives, because a tortured prisoner will say just about anything to stop the torture, which makes any information he gives you completely unreliable. 

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ytraM,

 

I agree also the US should not torture.

 

Let's define torture for this discussion. The only thing that could be called torture from the report is waterboarding and I have my doubts about that. Sleep depravation, cold water, cigar smoke in the face, small space confinement etc.... is not torture. I and thousands of other service members have been through all of those things, including waterboarding in training.

Very unpleasant at times but not torture.

For the sake of this discussion though we'll consider waterboarding torture.

 

Our enemies could care less if we torture or not. Any American service member captured WILL be tortured and most likely killed.

 

As to torture saving lives, simply it has and does.  Many terrorist attacks have been stopped or prevented because of information obtained from waterboarding.

The information you say that is "completely unreliable" is vetted from many sources and backgrounds. Information that is unreliable is tossed and solid information is processed and used.

The fact is waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques produced mountains of actionable intelligence that is still producing results today.

 

Lastly and a bit off topic, the Obama administration is using the information from those techniques today.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/10/opinio...-lies.html

 

"But “at no time” did the C.I.A.’s torture program produce intelligence that averted a terrorism threat, the report said."

 

"The Senate committee’s summary says that the torture by C.I.A. interrogators and private contractors was “brutal and far worse” than the agency has admitted to the public, to Congress and the Justice Department, even to the White House. At least one detainee died of “suspected hypothermia” after being shackled partially naked to a concrete floor in a secret C.I.A. detention center run by a junior officer without experience, competence or supervision."

 

"in many cases the most aggressive techniques were used immediately, in combination and nonstop,” according to the summary of the declassified and heavily censored document. “Sleep deprivation involved keeping detainees awake for up to 180 hours, usually standing or in stress positions, at times with their hands shackled above their heads.”"

 

"Detainees were walked around naked and shackled, and at other times naked detainees were “hooded and dragged up and down a long corridor while being slapped and punched.”"

 

"Some detainees, the report said, were subjected to nightmarish pseudo-medical procedures, referred to as “rectal feeding.”"

 

"To make matters worse, the report said that at least 26 of the 119 known C.I.A. prisoners were wrongfully held, some of them for months after the C.I.A. determined that they should not have been taken prisoner in the first place."

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I did not read the report and do not plan to. I lived at the tip of that spear for a number of years.

With that said, I know for a fact, (personal experience) that information obtained by enhanced interrogation prevented attacks.

 

The techniques described in your post sound harsh and some may even be torture but they produce results that save American lives.

 

There is no dispute that information obtained was and is vetted from many sources and valid intelligence is acted upon. That saves lives , home and abroad.

 

Off to work now, thanks for the reasoned discussion. 

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They don't follow the Geneva Conventions, so it's ok if they behead our American's?  Just something to think about.  And the post above, as well.

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Puréed pasta, beans and hummus rectally infused? How? On penis bread? That's enhanced interrogation? More like someone's kinky fantasies. But dang, hearing and reading that was...was...was...I got nothing on this. Hurl, maybe.


That'll make em spill their guts.... Literally.

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Blakes Life Matters

What did they do? Come in with a turkey baster, filled with the puréed hummus, pasta and beans...wave it front of Abdul and tell him to sign ze papers or bend over for your dinner?

Who thinks this stuff up?

Then who does it? Do they go by seniority?

Yo Joey, your turn to baste Shakir al Asola. Squeeze the beans till he screams.


Can't they just pull down his britches and threaten to cut his head off?

Then again, maybe they do.


Unbelievable.

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Blakes Life Matters

I think you are missing the fact that it was ineffective.

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I did not read the report and do not plan to. I lived at the tip of that spear for a number of years.

With that said, I know for a fact, (personal experience) that information obtained by enhanced interrogation prevented attacks.


The techniques described in your post sound harsh and some may even be torture but they produce results that save American lives.


There is no dispute that information obtained was and is vetted from many sources and valid intelligence is acted upon. That saves lives , home and abroad.


Off to work now, thanks for the reasoned discussion.

Lol. Republican World Smashers hoooo!!! Hahah. Torture is pointless. Also, our entire post is demonstrative of mental health issues. Get therapy. Torture gave us zero actionable evidence. I dare you to prove me wrong. Go read what McCain has to say about it if you need to hear it from someone on the red team. Again, torture is pointless.

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IMO enhanced interrogation techniques are necessary and do produce results.  Remember that all of the "studies" done regarding this is done using information that is un-classified and not complete.  What the public knows and reality are not equal.

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There are 10 kinds of people in this world.  Those who understand binary and those who don't.

IMO enhanced interrogation techniques are necessary and do produce results. Remember that all of the "studies" done regarding this is done using information that is un-classified and not complete. What the public knows and reality are not equal.

Torture doesn't produce results. What happens on Fox's '24' tv show and reality are not equal.

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the objection to torture shouldn't be it's effectiveness. The objection is it's compromise of morality. If we're simply willing to forfeit the moral high ground for the sake of security that is the SAME exact argument terrorist make when committing acts of terrorism. 

 

Do people believe only guilty parties are tortured? Is anyone really comfortable with giving our government the authority to torture with the only justification being the sake of security? These moral compromises are what have lead us to this problem in the first place, we interfere in foreign affairs on the justification of the greater good.

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Anyone see Dick Cheney with Bret Baier on Fox this evening? Love him or hate him he was very forthright and has no apologies. On the one hand he said it wasn't torture (the lawyers said so!), but he made it clear that he really didn't care if it was or not.

 

As a policy I think we should never use torture, but I can understand the pressures the CIA, etc., were under after 9/11.

 

What I think is particularly sleazy and got very little press is the fact that the CIA broke into the Intelligence Committee's computer system - three times. I can see why Sen Feinstein is so mad. How much of the report is factual and how much is political payback is impossible to tell. Hard to take the CIA's responses to the report too seriously.

 

When John McCain offers an opinion regarding torture I listen.

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The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

Torture doesn't produce results. What happens on Fox's '24' tv show and reality are not equal.

Enhanced interrogation techniques do.  osama bin laden's ghost says, hello.

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Kaishakunin for hire.

* (disclaimer) If you think I'm serious, hit yourself in the face w/ a hammer.

 

the objection to torture shouldn't be it's effectiveness. The objection is it's compromise of morality. If we're simply willing to forfeit the moral high ground for the sake of security that is the SAME exact argument terrorist make when committing acts of terrorism. 

 

Do people believe only guilty parties are tortured? Is anyone really comfortable with giving our government the authority to torture with the only justification being the sake of security? These moral compromises are what have lead us to this problem in the first place, we interfere in foreign affairs on the justification of the greater good.

 

I agree.   Torture is a war crime under the Geneva Convention.   We have abandoned any moral high ground in the world.   If someone captures an American soldier and tortures him, what can we say about it?   

 

People who defend torture need to think about what they want this country to stand for, and what is it about this country that makes it worth fighting for.  Torture is a stain on our national honor that will take decades to erase.   

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Anyone see Dick Cheney with Bret Baier on Fox this evening? Love him or hate him he was very forthright and has no apologies. On the one hand he said it wasn't torture (the lawyers said so!), but he made it clear that he really didn't care if it was or not.

 

As a policy I think we should never use torture, but I can understand the pressures the CIA, etc., were under after 9/11.

 

What I think is particularly sleazy and got very little press is the fact that the CIA broke into the Intelligence Committee's computer system - three times. I can see why Sen Feinstein is so mad. How much of the report is factual and how much is political payback is impossible to tell. Hard to take the CIA's responses to the report too seriously.

 

When John McCain offers an opinion regarding torture I listen.

Cheney. Pffft. Deferred 5 times in order to get out of Nam. His two cents means nothing and him sending men and women off to war is a pathetic farce.

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Blakes Life Matters

Enhanced interrogation has produced mountains of intelligence that is still being used today.

 

Proof? Osama bin Laden was found and killed based of information KSM provided during waterboarding. That's right, KSM gave up bin Laden's personal courier which led to his whereabouts and you know the rest of the story. There are many other examples and you can research on your own if you are interested.

 

I'm in no way defending torture by the US or any other entity but you cannot dismiss it out of hand by saying it does not work.

 

Lastly, this is not a repub/democrat thing. Presidents from both parties have either authorized the techniques, allowed techniques to continue or used intelligence derived to authorize operations.

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