Don't get mad at me, but this this is the standard that is used in administrative and civil investigations.

 

What he's saying is the NFL can choose to punish on the account of 49% evidence if they wanted to.

 

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Rut Roh, looks like some precedent...

 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=13...43,3595250

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

You too feel that you aren't responsible for what is in your possession?

 

Not my choice.  I'm just going by the rules.  Unless you have different information, there is no rule that "holds a team responsible for something in their possession."   There is a rule against tampering, so they have to prove who tampered with the ball.  Proving something was tampered with is not the same as proving who tampered with it.  So no, if the balls were tampered with without their knowledge (as far fetched as that may be), I don't see them as responsible for that.

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Can  you elaborate how that supports his argument?

 

The investigation has already produced information.  The investigation has already provided facts.  Repeat, they have found facts and have distributed those facts via the media.

 

Facts that lead a reasonable person to realize that the patriots organization deflated footballs...  That is the information that his been provided to us from the "media".  

 

Fact:  Balls deflated.  Fact:  Balls were not defective.  Fact:  Balls deflated after being in the patriots possession.  Fact:  clot's balls did not ever deflate.

 

Reasonable Analysis:  Someone in the patriots organization deflated footballs.

 

OJ Simpson Jury Analysis:  Anything could have happened to those footballs.  There's not enough evidence...  

 

I prefer to use logic and reason.  

 

Therefore, in conclusion---

Don't be an OJ Simpson Jury Member, get Direct-TV

 

If they could punish the Patriots with the information we have now, there would be no point in continuing the investigation.  So it means either the investigation is a farce, or they need to gather more information to hand out a punishment.  The investigation has produced the information that a "crime" has likely been committed.  It hasn't proven who committed the crime.  Try taking "reasonable analysis" to a court of law and see if you win this case.  

 

Reasonably analysis would lead to someone with the Patriots interests in mind somehow deflating the balls.  I agree with that.  But it's not too different from blaming someone for stealing your cupcake because they are overweight.  

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Rut Roh, looks like some precedent...

 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=13...43,3595250

 

Right, but the difference here is that the balls were found to be weighed correctly.  Unfortunately, this time there is proof that they weren't.

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Don't get mad at me, but this this is the standard that is used in administrative and civil investigations.

Why would I been mad at you ?

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

Not my choice. I'm just going by the rules. Unless you have different information, there is no rule that "holds a team responsible for something in their possession." There is a rule against tampering, so they have to prove who tampered with the ball. Proving something was tampered with is not the same as proving who tampered with it. So no, if the balls were tampered with without their knowledge (as far fetched as that may be), I don't see them as responsible for that.

Can you post the rules so I can see then too?


The league doesn't have set rules in this case based on punishment. The Rice case proves this.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

If they could punish the Patriots with the information we have now, there would be no point in continuing the investigation. So it means either the investigation is a farce, or they need to gather more information to hand out a punishment. The investigation has produced the information that a "crime" has likely been committed. It hasn't proven who committed the crime. Try taking "reasonable analysis" to a court of law and see if you win this case.


Reasonably analysis would lead to someone with the Patriots interests in mind somehow deflating the balls. I agree with that. But it's not too different from blaming someone for stealing your cupcake because they are overweight.

This has nothing to do with what would or wouldn't stand in a court case.

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

Does the word "motive" mean anything to you guys?  For what purpose would somebody let air out of the balls without Tom Brady wanting it that way?  The idea that somebody tampered with the balls (on multiple occasions) without somebody within the Patriots knowledge is not going to fly.

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Can you post the rules so I can see then too?


The league doesn't have set rules in this case based on punishment. The Rice case proves this.

 

Just did a search:  There is a link to the actual rule book but I just used the quotes.

http://heavy.com/sports/2015/01/rules-po...-pressure/

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_spot/2015...colts.html

 

 

The Ball must be a “Wilson,” hand selected, bearing the signature of the Commissioner of the League, Roger Goodell.

 
The ball shall be made up of an inflated (12 1/2 to 13 1/2 pounds) urethane bladder enclosed in a pebble grained, leather case (natural tan color) without corrugations of any kind. It shall have the form of a prolate spheroid and the size and weight shall be: long axis, 11 to 11 1/4 inches; long circumference, 28 to 28 1/2 inches; short circumference, 21 to 21 1/4 inches; weight, 14 to 15 ounces.
 
The Referee shall be the sole judge as to whether all balls offered for play comply with these specifications. A pump is to be furnished by the home club, and the balls shall remain under the supervision of the Referee until they are delivered to the ball attendant just prior to the start of the game.

 

 

 

 Each team will make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game to meet League requirements. The home team will also make 12 backup balls available for testing in all stadiums. In addition, the visitors, at their discretion, may bring 12 backup balls to be tested by the Referee for games held in outdoor stadiums. For all games, eight new footballs, sealed in a special box and shipped by the manufacturer to the Referee, will be opened in the officials’ locker room two hours and 15 minutes prior to the starting time of the game.

 
These balls are to be specially marked by the Referee and used exclusively for the kicking game.
 
In the event a home team ball does not conform to specifications, or its supply is exhausted, the Referee shall secure a proper ball from the visitors and, failing that, use the best available ball. Any such circumstances must be reported to the Commissioner.
 
In case of rain or a wet, muddy, or slippery field, a playable ball shall be used at the request of the offensive team’s center.
 
The Game Clock shall not stop for such action (unless undue delay occurs).
 
Note: It is the responsibility of the home team to furnish playable balls at all times by attendants from either side of the playing field.

 

 

 

Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment managers, ball boys, and coaches, is allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.

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Those rules say the Patriots are responsible... which is basically what we have already said 100x

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Are you guys kidding me? 20 freaking pages on this subject?  How the hell are you letting this bother you so much?  It's the offseason for 30 out of 32 teams, those players have all the time in the world, and they aren't making a big deal out of this. You guys seriously let the media whip you into so much of a frenzy? Seriously?  <i>Seriously?</i>

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Those rules say the Patriots are responsible... which is basically what we have already said 100x

 

 

 

Once the balls have left the locker room, no one, including players, equipment managers, ball boys, and coaches, is allowed to alter the footballs in any way. If any individual alters the footballs, or if a non-approved ball is used in the game, the person responsible and, if appropriate, the head coach or other club personnel will be subject to discipline, including but not limited to, a fine of $25,000.

 

In other words, if a ball boy did it, they have to prove it was at a head coach's request to discipline the head coach.  Otherwise, only the ball boy is fined.  If the rules were written the way you described them, then a ball boy from one team could sabatoge the other teams balls and both the ball boy and the team he sabotaged would be fined.  But in reality, the ball boy and HIS OWN TEAM, would be fined for altering the other team's balls (if it was proven his higher ups were involved).

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In other words, if a ball boy did it, they have to prove it was at a head coach's request to discipline the head coach.  Otherwise, only the ball boy is fined.  If the rules were written the way you described them, then a ball boy from one team could sabatoge the other teams balls and both the ball boy and the team he sabotaged would be fined.  But in reality, the ball boy and HIS OWN TEAM, would be fined for altering the other team's balls (if it was proven his higher ups were involved).

 

It would only be appropriate to fine just a ball boy (which is probably the dumbest thing I've heard about this whole thing) if they could prove he acted individually.

 

There is no rogue ball boy.

 

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Are you guys kidding me? 20 freaking pages on this subject? How the hell are you letting this bother you so much? It's the offseason for 30 out of 32 teams, those players have all the time in the world, and they aren't making a big deal out of this. You guys seriously let the media whip you into so much of a frenzy? Seriously? Seriously?

What else you want to talk about?

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Are you guys kidding me? 20 freaking pages on this subject? How the hell are you letting this bother you so much? It's the offseason for 30 out of 32 teams, those players have all the time in the world, and they aren't making a big deal out of this. You guys seriously let the media whip you into so much of a frenzy? Seriously? Seriously?

plenty of other topics to peruse brah

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In other words, if a ball boy did it, they have to prove it was at a head coach's request to discipline the head coach.  Otherwise, only the ball boy is fined.  If the rules were written the way you described them, then a ball boy from one team could sabatoge the other teams balls and both the ball boy and the team he sabotaged would be fined.  But in reality, the ball boy and HIS OWN TEAM, would be fined for altering the other team's balls (if it was proven his higher ups were involved).

 

You could also surmise from that, that the responsible team would be fined if the actual person that did it could not be pin pointed.  It was a blatant attempt to cheat the game.  A game they would have won anyway.

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It felt the same it always has -- Brady

So they've been deflating balls for a while eh? Does this count as one instance or multiple instances of cheating in addition to their known history. Goodell should force McCourty to sign with us, true justice

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Are you guys kidding me? 20 freaking pages on this subject?  How the hell are you letting this bother you so much?  It's the offseason for 30 out of 32 teams, those players have all the time in the world, and they aren't making a big deal out of this. You guys seriously let the media whip you into so much of a frenzy? Seriously?  <i>Seriously?</i>

That's why.

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Are you guys kidding me? 20 freaking pages on this subject?  How the hell are you letting this bother you so much?  It's the offseason for 30 out of 32 teams, those players have all the time in the world, and they aren't making a big deal out of this. You guys seriously let the media whip you into so much of a frenzy? Seriously?  <i>Seriously?</i>

You said it. :woot:

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TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"