22 solo tackles last year.... 4 games in a row where he didnt register a sack (i will admit idk if he was injured in those games or something but i know he played)

 

thats not great productivity. 

 

what you just did is pretty much the definition of cherry-picking.

 

 

Beasley is not a good player against the run.  Nobody is claiming that he is.  At this point he is a highly productive and disruptive PASS RUSHER.  He has been very productive in that role, as evidenced by 33 sacks in 3 years.

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what you just did is pretty much the definition of cherry-picking.

 

 

Beasley is not a good player against the run.  Nobody is claiming that he is.  At this point he is a highly productive and disruptive PASS RUSHER.  He has been very productive in that role, as evidenced by 33 sacks in 3 years.

 

idk. ive watched him play, i worry about him putting that physical ability to use in the nfl, like i said... i think he will struggle to get off blocks. at the #3 overall pick you dont just wanna get a 2 down player. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

22 solo tackles last year.... 4 games in a row where he didnt register a sack (i will admit idk if he was injured in those games or something but i know he played)


thats not great productivity.

JJ Watt had 11.5 sacks for his entire college career. In 2013, Watt went 4 games in a row without a sack.


It happens.

 

PS: Beasley was playing with an injured shoulder and hand for 2 of those games.

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idk. ive watched him play, i worry about him putting that physical ability to use in the nfl, like i said... i think he will struggle to get off blocks. at the #3 overall pick you dont just wanna get a 2 down player. 

Struggling to get off blocks is exactly why Ray isn't on the same level as the other guys we've mentioned. He has the least length (or at least uses it the worst), nor does he use his hands well. No one else in the first round discussion gets swallowed up like he does. 

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Here are the NFL's top 10 pass rushers college production numbers in terms of how many seasons they were held to a streak of 4 games or longer without a sack:

 

1.) Justin Houston - 1 out of 3

2.) JJ Watt - 3 out of 3 (only 2 out of 2 really since he played TE his freshman year)

3.) Elvis Dumervil - 1 out of 2

4.) Mario Williams - 1 out of 2

5.) Connor Barwin - 4 out of 4

6.) Von Miller - 3 out of 4

7.) Ryan Kerrigan - 2 out of 4

8.) Jason Pierre-Paul - 0 out of 1

9.) Terrell Suggs - Couldn't easily find those stats.  His senior year I know he had 24 sacks though.

10.) Everson Griffen - 3 out of 4

 

Jason Pierre-Paul is the only one of the top 10 rushers in the NFL that didn't go on a 4 game sackless streak... But he only played 1 season.

 

And for added emphasis, here are the other notable pass rushers of this draft:

 

Dante Fowler - 2 out of 3

Randy Gregory - 0 out of 2 (He did have a 5 game streak of a 0.5 sack though)

Shane Ray - 2 out of 3

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JJ Watt had 11.5 sacks for his entire college career. In 2013, Watt went 4 games in a row without a sack.


It happens.

 

PS: Beasley was playing with an injured shoulder and hand for 2 of those games.

 

i was curious if he was injured. that might explain a bit of it. im not a huge fan of him at #3 but maybe if it happens he will be a pleasant surprise. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Here are the NFL's top 10 pass rushers college production numbers in terms of how many seasons they were held to a streak of 4 games or longer without a sack:

 

1.) Justin Houston - 1 out of 3

2.) JJ Watt - 3 out of 3 (only 2 out of 2 really since he played TE his freshman year)

3.) Elvis Dumervil - 1 out of 2

4.) Mario Williams - 1 out of 2

5.) Connor Barwin - 4 out of 4

6.) Von Miller - 3 out of 4

7.) Ryan Kerrigan - 2 out of 4

8.) Jason Pierre-Paul - 0 out of 1

9.) Terrell Suggs - Couldn't easily find those stats.  His senior year I know he had 24 sacks though.

10.) Everson Griffen - 3 out of 4

 

Jason Pierre-Paul is the only one of the top 10 rushers in the NFL that didn't go on a 4 game sackless streak... But he only played 1 season.

 

And for added emphasis, here are the other notable pass rushers of this draft:

 

Dante Fowler - 2 out of 3

Randy Gregory - 0 out of 2 (He did have a 5 game streak of a 0.5 sack though)

Shane Ray - 2 out of 3

 

 

thats good info. i just expected more out of a guy that would go 3 overall that plays in that conference and is supposed to be a a sack specialist. 

 

but i didnt realize that those current nfl guys had similar streaks. 

 

 

also to note, im not saying ray should go at 3 either. im saying i think i prefer ray to beasley especially if ray slips down in the draft and beasley goes top 5. 

 

shane ray reminds me a lot of bruce irvin and i think that kind of player would work really well in gus' system. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

He'll reach the explosiveness benchmarks, but I think he'll struggle with the agility/cod skills. That's what downgrades Ray in my book. His burst off the snap and explosion is eye popping. But he doesn't turn the corner well, and gets engulfed too easily by blocks (which likely will happen more often in the NFL with the talent there).

 

Gregory's "potential" as a wide 9 is enormous. He has length, agility, explosiveness, and he can turn. He also probably has the highest bust potential of the three.

 

Fowler fits between Ray and Gregory as far as floor/ceiling.

 

It's funny, because Beasley was a "hot" name at the end of last season. He's kind of the forgotten man throughout the season, but his combine numbers are putting him back in discussion.

 

 

I do see Gregory as the best traditional 4-3 RDE in this draft, however, we're looking for the best LEO and I sense that Ray is a more ideal fit there. The ability to turn is yet again something largely negated as a LEO vs the RDE spot. Fowler would be a fine pick to start at OTTO, but the position doesn't carry the same flash and degree as LEO where I see a guy like Ray making Pro Bowls.


 

Beasley is an all-out freak the more I learn of him, and I'm surprised he's not more in the discussion at #3. It's not like his stats suck, over the past two seasons Beasley has posted 25 sacks, 44.5 TFLs, 9 passes knocked down, 7 forced fumbles, and 2 fumbles returned for a TD. Beasley is roughly the same height and weight as Shane Ray, but Vic's incredible strength makes up for any perceived lack of size.


 

I mentioned how seeing Vic's combine stats shine well ahead of his competition in this draft reminded me of JJ Watt, so I thought I'd compare the two...


 

Vic Beasley, 4.53 40, 2.65 20, 1.59 10, 4.14 shuttle, 6.91 3-cone, 41" vert, 10'10" broad, 35 reps


JJ Watt, 4.81 40, 2.71 20, 1.64 10, 4.21 shuttle, 6.88 3-cone, 37" vert, 10' broad, 34 reps


 

Aside from nearly tying in the 3-cone, Beasley's combine stats are better than JJ's across the board.

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'02

I do see Gregory as the best traditional 4-3 RDE in this draft, however, we're looking for the best LEO and I sense that Ray is a more ideal fit there. The ability to turn is yet again something largely negated as a LEO vs the RDE spot. Fowler would be a fine pick to start at OTTO, but the position doesn't carry the same flash and degree as LEO where I see a guy like Ray making Pro Bowls.


Beasley is an all-out freak the more I learn of him, and I'm surprised he's not more in the discussion at #3. It's not like his stats suck, over the past two seasons Beasley has posted 25 sacks, 44.5 TFLs, 9 passes knocked down, 7 forced fumbles, and 2 fumbles returned for a TD. Beasley is roughly the same height and weight as Shane Ray, but Vic's incredible strength makes up for any perceived lack of size.


I mentioned how seeing Vic's combine stats shine well ahead of his competition in this draft reminded me of JJ Watt, so I thought I'd compare the two...


Vic Beasley, 4.53 40, 2.65 20, 1.59 10, 4.14 shuttle, 6.91 3-cone, 41" vert, 10'10" broad, 35 reps

JJ Watt, 4.81 40, 2.71 20, 1.64 10, 4.21 shuttle, 6.88 3-cone, 37" vert, 10' broad, 34 reps


Aside from nearly tying in the 3-cone, Beasley's combine stats are better than JJ's across the board.

I think just from a purely combine #s standpoint Gholston may be a better comp to Beasley than Watt.


Gholston: 4.65 40, 2.65 20, 1.53 10, 4.4 shuttle, 7.12 3 cone, 35 1/2 vert (42 at his pro day), 10'5" broad, 37 reps.

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I think the point is that you could make an argument for a number of players being our LEO, based purely on their physical capabilities.


But is a player like Eli Harold as skilled as some of the players who passed fewer of Alfie's subjective "benchmarks" ?

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"Alfies benchmarks" lol

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this is the kind of over-analysis that gets tiresome

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I do see Gregory as the best traditional 4-3 RDE in this draft, however, we're looking for the best LEO and I sense that Ray is a more ideal fit there. The ability to turn is yet again something largely negated as a LEO vs the RDE spot. Fowler would be a fine pick to start at OTTO, but the position doesn't carry the same flash and degree as LEO where I see a guy like Ray making Pro Bowls.


 

Beasley is an all-out freak the more I learn of him, and I'm surprised he's not more in the discussion at #3. It's not like his stats suck, over the past two seasons Beasley has posted 25 sacks, 44.5 TFLs, 9 passes knocked down, 7 forced fumbles, and 2 fumbles returned for a TD. Beasley is roughly the same height and weight as Shane Ray, but Vic's incredible strength makes up for any perceived lack of size.


 

I mentioned how seeing Vic's combine stats shine well ahead of his competition in this draft reminded me of JJ Watt, so I thought I'd compare the two...


 

Vic Beasley, 4.53 40, 2.65 20, 1.59 10, 4.14 shuttle, 6.91 3-cone, 41" vert, 10'10" broad, 35 reps


JJ Watt, 4.81 40, 2.71 20, 1.64 10, 4.21 shuttle, 6.88 3-cone, 37" vert, 10' broad, 34 reps


 

Aside from nearly tying in the 3-cone, Beasley's combine stats are better than JJ's across the board.

 

That bend is still pretty important. That's part of the reason why Branch gets moved around to generate pressure. Even when he's lined up at wide-9 and he gets the initial rush, he just can't turn that corner fast enough to force the QB to step up.

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Before I read it, I see his name is Alphie, then I don't read it at all.

 

C'mon, were you not a huge fan of the show Alf? 

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

I think the point is that you could make an argument for a number of players being our LEO, based purely on their physical capabilities.


But is a player like Eli Harold as skilled as some of the players who passed fewer of Alfie's subjective "benchmarks" ?

This is also a good point

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Can alfie play LEO?

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No one is safe.

Alfie is just getting it from Justis Mosqueda's mathrusher's (now called forceplayers) logarithm, which has an extremely impressive track record. 

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Alfie is just getting it from Justis Mosqueda's mathrusher's (now called forceplayers) logarithm, which has an extremely impressive track record.

Please elaborate.

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

That bend is still pretty important. That's part of the reason why Branch gets moved around to generate pressure. Even when he's lined up at wide-9 and he gets the initial rush, he just can't turn that corner fast enough to force the QB to step up.

 

 

In Ray's case, I'm confident he can turn and bend plenty well enough for the LEO spot. One comment I noticed was that despite all his speed he doesn't over-pursue and can always be found heading toward the qb. If a guy couldn't turn well, he'd be shooting beyond the qb all the time. Also, WalterFootball's write-up makes it sound like he can turn just fine...


 

<p style="margin-left:40px;">Ray has demonstrated a real burst off the snap with the agility to turn the corner. He needs to get stronger for the ground game, but he has speed-rushing skills and edge-rush athleticism. Against the run, Ray does well in pursuit, but he can have problems when teams run straight at him. Ray lacks length, but he has good pass-rushing moves and is extremely fast off the snap.

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'02

Branch also supposedly was good at "bending" around the corner when he was coming out of Clemson.

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