Demarcus Ware was once a "tweener". So was Justin Houston and Terrell Suggs and Aldon Smith and Ryan Kerrigan.

and Jason Taylor and Charles Haley...though in fairness, Houston, Taylor and Haley were all 3rd round picks and lower.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Buyer beware.

 

There's a reason they've gotten cute and changed the name to "EDGE" for the position.

 

Too many tweeners /rush OLBs and not enough pure, classic RDEs.

 

I think we'll be looking back on this draft and be saying the opposite.  All depends on where these tweeners land and how they fit.

We already went over this Pirk, EDGE includes 3-4 rush OLB, 4-3 RDE, OTTO, LEO, etc. It's simply a much easier way to categorize a pass rusher than lumping them in with all of the rest of the DEs or all LBs. 

 

It has nothing to do with being a tweener or not. Clowney was your "pure, classic RDE" and he was still labeled an EDGE player last year. 

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We already went over this Pirk, EDGE includes 3-4 rush OLB, 4-3 RDE, OTTO, LEO, etc. It's simply a much easier way to categorize a pass rusher than lumping them in with all of the rest of the DEs or all LBs.


It has nothing to do with being a tweener or not. Clowney was your "pure, classic RDE" and he was still labeled an EDGE player last year.

which Clowney plays OLB for the Texans

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which Clowney plays OLB for the Texans

Exactly, the same EDGE prospect that now plays OLB for the Texans was also the perfect mold for RDE. That's the point. It's not just some made up term to describe tweeners.

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Jaguars biggest need: a star

 

That is absolutely it.  

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A. Robinson can be the tough possession receiver (Keenan McCardell) 

Cooper can be the smooth, speedy route runner with unbelievable hands (Jimmy Smith)

Lee can thrive in the slot and KR. (Someone explain why we have not gave him a shot back there yet)

Hurns can come in on 4 wide formations and can offer productive depth if/when injuries happen. 

 

Last year, we were about to, when we started having injuries at the WR position, and we decided to use him solely at WR so he wouldn't get overloaded.    At least, I remember reading that last year.   If we draft Cooper or White this year, I would expect Lee would get a lot of time at returner.  

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Jaguars biggest need: a star

 

Well, if this is true (and I do not argue against your proposition), the odds are we absolutely need to hit on our first round pick.

 

Head on over to http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/.

 

This is a great site, but they are in an absolute zone today, with so much information posted about the draft it'll make your head spin.

 

The first thing they have posted is the draft status of the players in the last pro bowl.

 

Out of the 6 QBs selected to play in the Pro Bowl, 4 were first round picks.

 

Out of the 8 WRs selected to play in the pro Bowl, 5 were first round picks.

 

Out of the 4 Centers, 3 were first round picks.

 

Out of the 6 guards, 3 were first round picks.

 

Out of the 6 Tackles, 5 were first round picks.

 

Of the 6 DEs, 4 were first round picks.

 

Of the 6 DTs, 5 were first round picks***

 

ILBs?  3 out of 5 were 1st rounders.

 

OLBs? 3 out of 6.

 

CBs?  5 out of 8.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Does mcshay just type and post or does someone actually proofread his articles first. The Derrick Morgan slip up is silly

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Repost

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We already went over this Pirk, EDGE includes 3-4 rush OLB, 4-3 RDE, OTTO, LEO, etc. It's simply a much easier way to categorize a pass rusher than lumping them in with all of the rest of the DEs or all LBs. 

 

It has nothing to do with being a tweener or not. Clowney was your "pure, classic RDE" and he was still labeled an EDGE player last year. 

 

"EDGE" is new, and Clowney was not labeled that last year.  Here's the evidence:

 

Mayocks positionals for 2014:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000...-nfl-draft

Distinctly separate categories for DE and OLB, as it should be.

 

Mayocks positionals for 2015:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ankings-20

They have combined the two in an edge rusher category because of the lack of DEs in this draft, and the high number of rush OLBs.

 

They haven't used it before.  In fact, they didn't begin this year's analysis with it, either.  It came out around the time of the combine or just after.

 

It's equivalent to lumping all TEs and WRs together and calling them "CATCHERS."

 

"EDGE" is for the intellectually lazy, IMO.  And yes, it was just pulled out of their rears this year.

 

I would have expected you of all folks to know better.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

which Clowney plays OLB for the Texans

 

Texans took BAP, and placed him there because that's their scheme.  You can't do that with just any prospect.  Clowney's skill set is/was extremely rare.  Can't do that with just any player.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

"EDGE" is new, and Clowney was not labeled that last year. Here's the evidence:


Mayocks positionals for 2014:
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000346685/article/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft'>http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000346685/article/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft</a>

Distinctly separate categories for DE and OLB, as it should be.


Mayocks positionals for 2015:
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000475721/article/mike-mayocks-2015-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20'>http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000475721/article/mike-mayocks-2015-nfl-draft-position-rankings-20</a>

They have combined the two in an edge rusher category because of the lack of DEs in this draft, and the high number of rush OLBs.


They haven't used it before. In fact, they didn't begin this year's analysis with it, either. It came out around the time of the combine or just after.


It's equivalent to lumping all TEs and WRs together and calling them "CATCHERS."


"EDGE" is for the intellectually lazy, IMO. And yes, it was just pulled out of their rears this year.


I would have expected you of all folks to know better.

Google "Clowney and edge rusher" and see what you come up with. Rotoworld has a few blurbs using those two words together. Also are you familiar with Football Outsiders? Take a look at the first paragraph in this article:

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/sackseer-2014'>http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/sackseer-2014</a>

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"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Google "Clowney and edge rusher" and see what you come up with. Rotoworld has a few blurbs using those two words together. Also are you familiar with Football Outsiders? Take a look at the first paragraph in this article:

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/sackseer-2014'>http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/sackseer-2014</a>

 

Edge rusher is a term used to describe a player's role.  It does not describe his position.  His position is DE or OLB.  Completely different.

 

Keep up.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Edge rusher is a term used to describe a player's role. It does not describe his position. His position is DE or OLB. Completely different.


Keep up.

With the NFL Combine under wraps, it is time for the annual unveiling of our SackSEER projections for the college "edge rushers" (4-3 defensive ends and 3-4 outside linebackers) available in the 2014 NFL Draft.

Are you familiar with the usage of and/or? Edge rusher describes both 4-3 ends AND 3-4 linebackers who rush the passer.

---

"Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes. That way, if he gets angry, he's a mile away and barefoot."

Are you familiar with the usage of and/or? Edge rusher describes both 4-3 ends AND 3-4 linebackers who rush the passer.

 

You don't even realize you're not arguing the same topic.

 

Click the links I provided, and tell me you don't see a difference/change in the categories.

 

THAT'S the argument.  You can't change the topic and pretend that's what the argument is about.

 

"EDGE" is not a position, it's a role.  DE and OLB are positions.

 

It's simply truth.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

 

You don't even realize you're not arguing the same topic.

 

Click the links I provided, and tell me you don't see a difference/change in the categories.

 

THAT'S the argument.  You can't change the topic and pretend that's what the argument is about.

 

"EDGE" is not a position, it's a role.  DE and OLB are positions.

 

It's simply truth.

But is it a distinction with a meaningful difference?

 

For years, we had the term Half Back and Full Back and Tight End.

 

Half back became RB, Tail Back, I-Back, and one back.  Full back became "H-Back"   and is  now is often being described as "Move TE."

 

For years, Split End and Flanker were terms used to describe WRs, or even more technically X, or Z.

 

Even on our team, we are seeing DE being described as "LEO" or "Elephant", and the SLB being described as "Otto."

 

I'm not sure exactly why this urgency for the distinction is here.

 

What does the NFL Network and their analysts gain by making up a whole new category to cover up for a perceived weakness in a given area (pure 4-3 DEs) other than economy of speech?

 

Whether they rush from a three point stance a-la Bruce Smith or a two point stance like Derrick Thomas, the role is the same-get after the QB using an outside or edge rush.

 

That's what is being described.

 

I don't think it's some conspiracy to mask a numerically weak position in the draft.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I think this is the first year in a while where there's no player (within reason) that I hope we don't pick.  Though Mariota would probably be on that list if a QB were a potential option.  


If we get Cooper, I hope he's not too far from AJ Green type of player.

---

I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

 

<div>
 


But is it a distinction with a meaningful difference?

 

For years, we had the term Half Back and Full Back and Tight End.

 

Half back became RB, Tail Back, I-Back, and one back.  Full back became "H-Back"   and is  now is often being described as "Move TE."

 

For years, Split End and Flanker were terms used to describe WRs, or even more technically X, or Z.

 

Even on our team, we are seeing DE being described as "LEO" or "Elephant", and the SLB being described as "Otto."

 

I'm not sure exactly why this urgency for the distinction is here.

 

What does the NFL Network and their analysts gain by making up a whole new category to cover up for a perceived weakness in a given area (pure 4-3 DEs) other than economy of speech?

 

Whether they rush from a three point stance a-la Bruce Smith or a two point stance like Derrick Thomas, the role is the same-get after the QB using an outside or edge rush.

 

That's what is being described.

 

I don't think it's some conspiracy to mask a numerically weak position in the draft.

 

</div>

 

I don't think it's a conspiracy at all, it's just lazy.

 

Some guys can't rush standing up vs hand on the ground, and vice versa.

 

Some do one or the other, or both.  To lump them all together, isn't placing them into the correct context.

 

For many, if not most or all of these guys... fit most definitely matters.

 

Blanketing them with a label without consideration of actual position, is a disservice and doesn't tell the entire tale.

 

What's glaring is the obvious change in classification.

 

Again, it's a first.  Perhaps it was out of frustration of categorizing last year's pass rushers.

 

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000346685/article/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft' title="External link">http://www.nfl.com/n...-2014-nfl-draft</a>

 

Last year (and going back decades prior) you saw a distinct classification of DE and OLB.

 

When talking about pass rushers you find them in both categories.  This year, for the first time, they have sloppily grouped them all together.

 

I don't think this is a mistake.  I believe this is the way they'll do it moving forward.

 

It's my opinion this may be the beginning of the end of the traditional RDE.  Why that is, is a different story to ponder.  I'd speculate it has to do with college coaches not teaching the position and/or changing the way they use athletes on defense (which in itself suggests moving away from traditional fronts and using RDEs in the traditional sense.)

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I don't think it's a conspiracy at all, it's just lazy.

 

Some guys can't rush standing up vs hand on the ground, and vice versa.

 

Some do one or the other, or both.  To lump them all together, isn't placing them into the correct context.

 

For many, if not most or all of these guys... fit most definitely matters.

 

Blanketing them with a label without consideration of actual position, is a disservice and doesn't tell the entire tale.

 

What's glaring is the obvious change in classification.

 

Again, it's a first.  Perhaps it was out of frustration of categorizing last year's pass rushers.

 

<a class="bbc_url" href='http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000346685/article/mike-mayocks-position-rankings-for-2014-nfl-draft' title="External link">http://www.nfl.com/n...-2014-nfl-draft</a>

 

Last year (and going back decades prior) you saw a distinct classification of DE and OLB.

 

When talking about pass rushers you find them in both categories.  This year, for the first time, they have sloppily grouped them all together.

 

I don't think this is a mistake.  I believe this is the way they'll do it moving forward.

 

It's my opinion this may be the beginning of the end of the traditional RDE.  Why that is, is a different story to ponder.  I'd speculate it has to do with college coaches not teaching the position and/or changing the way they use athletes on defense (which in itself suggests moving away from traditional fronts and using RDEs in the traditional sense.)

For positional accuracy, I see the need for the distinction.

 

But if you are talking about players filling almost exactly the same role-get after the passer from basically the same part of the field-why not lump them together?

 

In most of the cases, either the guys playing with their hands on the ground or in two point stances are going to go after the QB.

 

Will there be times and schemes where occasionally they will drop into coverage?  Sure.

 

Does that make them cover guys?  No.

 

Will there be times they will be asked to stop the run when it comes at them?  Absolutely.

 

Should they be considered run stuffers for it?  No.

 

Barring something wholly unforseen (like TC inexplicably using Bryce Paup a ton in coverage) their primary roles will be that of pass rushers.

 

Every once in a while, these guys rushing from the outside will use inside counter moves or power moves, or sometimes loop inside on stunts.  Does that make them inside pass rushers?  No.

 

Would it be more accurate, complete, and contextual to describe a Dante Fowler, assuming he is picked by us, as a "RDE, whose primary purpose is providing a pass rush from the outside, but will occasionally employ power moves and inside pass rushes, stuff the run, and drop into coverage?"  Sure.  But who has time to type all of that on a regular basis during the course of a discussion?

 

Isn't it simpler to say RDE/LEO and be done with it, with the common understanding of what their usage is?

 

I mean, would you argue against pronoun usage in the English language?

 

Why argue against "edge rusher" within this context?  Why not the stand against the shifting language of FBs-TEs-H-Backs?

 

I get there is a general distinction between a LB and a DE in terms of generalized body types, roles.

 

But to the degree there is some overlap/similarity in physical attributes AND roles, why not use economical language?

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I just get worried about drafting any WR in the 1st round anymore. After all of our history with this, it seems better to wait until later rounds to pick up WRs. I think they just go LEO or BAP; since there is no FS worth that high of a pick. I still would like to trade down and pick up another 1st next year and maybe another 2nd this year. But we'll see how it all plays out. Maybe Dave is set on someone that we don't even recognize (Blake) as an option yet and he's just waiting to pull that plug....

GO JAGS!!

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Let's Get Em!!!! Go Jags!