I'm warming up to fowler if Williams isn't a possibility or in the plans of the team. He plays with a tenacity that reminds me of suggs....and suggs is my favorite defensive player in the league

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

I'm warming up to fowler if Williams isn't a possibility or in the plans of the team. He plays with a tenacity that reminds me of suggs....and suggs is my favorite defensive player in the league

 

Suggs is actually a good comparison, even with his measurables.  

Hopefully he can be a similar player.

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I am no draft expert and I don't pretend to be one. All I can go by is what I see with my own eyes. With Fowler, I saw a guy who was a terror on a team that was not very good. Their front seven this past year, aside from Fowler, left a lot to be desired. He did not put up huge sack numbers but he was in on a lot of plays. And he seems to have a great motor.

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Suggs is actually a good comparison, even with his measurables.

Hopefully he can be a similar player.

Suggs is a really good comp. The one that I've heard a lot that's gets me excited is Justin Houston. Houston in our defense might've gotten close to 25 sacks last year.

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Crab Cakes and Football! That's what Jacksonville does!

Suggs is a really good comp. The one that I've heard a lot that's gets me excited is Justin Houston. Houston in our defense might've gotten close to 25 sacks last year.

 

Houston was actually bigger and more athletic, so it's kind of a bad example.  Justing Houston is much more explosive than Fowler.

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Houston was actually bigger and more athletic, so it's kind of a bad example. Justing Houston is much more explosive than Fowler.

I think you might be wrong. Fowlers 10 yd split which is the most important for an edge rusher was 1.56 and finished with a 4.6 40.


Houston had a 1.62 10 yd split and finished with a 4.68 40. As for Houston being bigger they are the same height while Houston weighs just 5 lbs more. I think the comp holds water and I definitely wouldn't call it a "bad example".

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Crab Cakes and Football! That's what Jacksonville does!

I am no draft expert and I don't pretend to be one. All I can go by is what I see with my own eyes. With Fowler, I saw a guy who was a terror on a team that was not very good. Their front seven this past year, aside from Fowler, left a lot to be desired. He did not put up huge sack numbers but he was in on a lot of plays. And he seems to have a great motor.

 

exactly. fowler is a terror in the backfield (just like suggs.) if he had some more help his sack numbers probably would be inflated, but all the pressures he caused are really just the tip of the iceberg. 

 

my gut does say that if williams is gone (or maybe if he is still there we could work out some magic to drop a couple spots), we take fowler. the possibility of working something out with a couple teams under us or even moving down with the jets and getting fowler there while getting more picks could be pretty intriguing. 

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

I think you might be wrong. Fowlers 10 yd split which is the most important for an edge rusher was 1.56 and finished with a 4.6 40.


Houston had a 1.62 10 yd split and finished with a 4.68 40. As for Houston being bigger they are the same height while Houston weighs just 5 lbs more. I think the comp holds water and I definitely wouldn't call it a "bad example".

 

way to cherry-pick measurables.

 

Who says the 10-yard split is the most important?  If anything, I've heard the 3-cone drill is the most important because it shows whether you can change directions/bend well.

 

the vertical, broad jump, bench press, and most importantly, the 3-cone drill, are all in favor of Houston, who measured at 6'3" and 270lbs with 34 1/2" arms.

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10 yard split is the most important and is a great gauge for a rusher coming off the edge and shows explosiveness.


How is listing their height, weight, amd 40 times cherry picking? I was only saying that because you said he was much bigger and athletic. They are pretty close comparisons. There really shouldn't be much debate in that.

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Crab Cakes and Football! That's what Jacksonville does!

10 yard split is the most important and is a great gauge for a rusher coming off the edge and shows explosiveness.


How is listing their height, weight, amd 40 times cherry picking? I was only saying that because you said he was much bigger and athletic. They are pretty close comparisons. There really shouldn't be much debate in that.

I'd say vert and broad are better burst/power indicators...10 yd is just acceleration/get off but film is better indicator of first step/get off.

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I'd say vert and broad are better burst/power indicators...10 yd is just acceleration/get off but film is better indicator of first step/get off.

Acceleration is a form of explosiveness. The jumps are indicators as well, but when is an edge rusher ever going to vert jump or broad jump like that? The 10 yd split is the easiest to convert to an actual game situation in my opinion.

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Crab Cakes and Football! That's what Jacksonville does!

Acceleration is a form of explosiveness. The jumps are indicators as well, but when is an edge rusher ever going to vert jump or broad jump like that? The 10 yd split is the easiest to convert to an actual game situation in my opinion.

 

I agree, for an edge rusher the 10 yard split is a pretty good indicator of him coming off the ball.  Watching film would show his reaction time.  From watching UF play, I think he had a fair number of offside penalties because he tried to time the snap.  There is good and bad to that.  Many times it worked in his favor, but he also cost them some penalties.

 

I'm not a draftnik like many people here, and I'm not sold on Fowler....I really have no idea what we will pick and don't think I would be upset if we drafted really any position (other than qb or rb) at this point.

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the 10-yard split can be coached.  (your "start" during a 40).... I know it can, because I've done it in the past.  You can't coach top-end speed, but most coaches tend to coach people to improve their start which also improves their overall time.

 

the 3-cone drill shows more natural athleticism and "bend" and change of direction ability, which is much more difficult to coach.

 

Fowler universally isn't considered an explosive athlete due to his poor 3-cone time and his average other measurables.  I think he's athletic enough, but it's pretty clear Justin Houston is a step above him in terms of athleticism.

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Thought this was interesting on Donte Fowler.

 

-Cosell thinks he's the best defensive end out there.  

http://www.musiccitymiracles.com/2015/2/...dy-gregory

 

Mayock also compares him to Justin Houston.  I would consider Mayock the best media draft coverage guy.

http://fanbuzz.com/story/nfl-draft-analy...he-league/

 

Mayock video.  

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-nfl-draft

 

Summary:

• I do believe you can get a good edge guy.
  
• three main ones Fowler/Gregory/Ray (mentions Beasley later)
  
• best fit for 3-4 is Fowler @ 255-260
  
• 3-4 passrusher: 1) great passrusher or develop into one, 2) set physical edge, 3) drop into coverage
  
• Dante Fowler is the guy that checks off all three of the boxes
  
• tough enough and big enough to set a physical edge - that is what makes me nervous about Gregory, Ray, Beasley - let's see what they weigh and what their body types look like (at the combine)
  
• in the NFL, you have got to be able to play run game and take on physical OTs and OGs.
  
• If Vic Beasley does not have the explosion to get under offensive tackles and play with explosion, it is hard to say that his game will be able to translate in the NFL.
  

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I get the feeling from most that Winston and Mariota will go 1-2 whether the Buccs and Titans go this way or trade. That means we will have choice between pretty much everyone. I like Fowler and think he is exactly what we need. He fits the LEO role almost perfectly and is definitely a quality player. However, in my mind Leonard Williams is such a stud that I don't know how you could pass on him. Really tough decision. I will say this, if Fowler and Williams are there and Caldwell selects White or Cooper or pretty much anyone else except maybe Beasley, I will burn everything Jaguars that I own.

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That's not necessarily a ringing endorsement, because there aren't really any DEs out there.  Most, if not all, are rush OLBs.

 

At the same time, each one has their own distinct strengths and weaknesses.

 

And another thing that isn't mentioned, the top three or four all have relatively equal grades from what I've gathered.  There's no consensus (as there was with DE Clowney last year, and in previous years where there have been strong RDE candidates.)

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

That's not necessarily a ringing endorsement, because there aren't really any DEs out there. Most, if not all, are rush OLBs.


At the same time, each one has their own distinct strengths and weaknesses.


And another thing that isn't mentioned, the top three or four all have relatively equal grades from what I've gathered. There's no consensus (as there was with DE Clowney last year, and in previous years where there have been strong RDE candidates.)

A Justin Houston comp isn't a ring endorsement? There's no consensus top player at any position. Who do you want to see the jags take at 3?

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Crab Cakes and Football! That's what Jacksonville does!

Acceleration is a form of explosiveness. The jumps are indicators as well, but when is an edge rusher ever going to vert jump or broad jump like that? The 10 yd split is the easiest to convert to an actual game situation in my opinion.

As was already pointed out...the 10 yard split is basically how well your get off from a track stance was and that can be taught...


The jumps show leg power and burst so when firing out and making initial contact they can convert that speed to power.


I'd personally take a guy with great vert/3cone/broad over a guy that has a better 10 yd split.


you asked when a player would ever jump like that...other side of the coin is when do they get into a sprinters stance and fire off when they want to?

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I never said that they will ever be in a sprinters stance. I did say that the 10 yd split is the easiest combine drill to convert into a real life game situation which I care about and everybody should also. Should be no debate there.


I'm not saying the jumps don't show explosiveness. They def do. But I will say that Fowlers drills were more than adequate and were not in anyway concerning.

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Crab Cakes and Football! That's what Jacksonville does!

You guys are getting lost in measurables; the most meaningful tool is game tape.  What does that tell you?   

 

Use Suggs as an example.  At the combine and pro day, at 6'3 262, he ran a disappointing 4.8+ 40, only 19 reps on the bench, and 33 inches vertical.  Although he had set the NCAA record in sacks and was a high motor guy, he fell down from the top 5 of the draft due to his "measurables".  Baltimore snatched him with the 10th pick, and wound up with a 6 time pro bowl player, 2011 NFL defensive player of the year, and team career leader is sacks with over 106.         

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