Yup, he got caught, he got dinged.


In my opinion though,, when doing top player lists,, maybe an asterisk could be attached to his name when he's compared to other players from the same era.


It's really hard for me to attach one to him while comparing him to all-time players,, as different eras have a great number of different variables to take in account (different rules, number of games in seasons, salary caps, equipment technology advances, WRs use of stickem in the day,, etc.).


When comparing Brady to All-Time QBs, I think he is one of the best clutch performers that has ever played (deflate-gate or not). Even in the 2 Superbowls he lost, he drove his team very late for scores when they needed it,, only to watch the defense give it away.


In this era,, deflating is a big deal I guess. But I've read/heard other QBs from the past doing the same thing and it was pretty common.


Brady's easily top 5 all time to me,,, maybe top 3.

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Brady is definitly top 5 in my book, I wouldn't even use an asterisk. 

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Even removing the cheating aspect of it... don't you think Brady is more of a system QB?


Besides the moss year, Brady is more of a short yardage passer, and relies on his receivers to get yards after the catch...


To me, that drops him well out of the top five... still in top 10. But other QBs I think are much more prolific than him.

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Even removing the cheating aspect of it... don't you think Brady is more of a system QB?


Besides the moss year, Brady is more of a short yardage passer, and relies on his receivers to get yards after the catch...


To me, that drops him well out of the top five... still in top 10. But other QBs I think are much more prolific than him.

 

I can't really call Brady a system QB. Is there really such a thing as a "system QB" in the NFL, like there is in college?

 

I guess the closest thing to a system QB in the NFL, to me anyway, would be a QB like Alex Smith, but I really just don't think a QB can achieve long term success in the NFL by being a system QB.

 

I just don't think it's possible for a QB to get to 6 Super Bowls, and win 4 of them, and not be considered great.

 

Sure Brady relies on the short passing game, maybe more then some other QBs, but he is very accurate with it, and it is very effective and keeps the chains moving. Brady is also pretty accurate with throws down the field, like on 3rd and long, when he is given time to throw, so he's not just all about the short pass.

 

Brady also has a great HC who finds the opposing teams weaknesses and exploits them, on both sides of the ball, and that helps the team win.

 

Besides, other then Moss and the reliable Welker, what other great WRs has he had to throw the ball to, that helped him get to 6 Super Bowls?

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I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

Even removing the cheating aspect of it... don't you think Brady is more of a system QB?


Besides the moss year, Brady is more of a short yardage passer, and relies on his receivers to get yards after the catch...


To me, that drops him well out of the top five... still in top 10. But other QBs I think are much more prolific than him.

 

Brady has rolled through a few offensive coordinators and many receivers that to me, weren't very good.  He's made them look really good.

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1. JOE MONTANA            
   
2. ROGER STAUBACH       
   
3. TOM BRADY                 
   
4. BART STARR               
   
5. PEYTON MANNING        
   
6. DREW BREES                
   
7. TROY AIKMAN             
   
8. STEVE YOUNG              
   
9. DAN MARINO               
   
10. JOHNNY UNITUS    
    

Who is in your top 10 qbs ever?

Do you agree?

 

Here's mine,

 

1. Joe Montana

2. Tom Brady

3. Dan Marino

4. Johnny Unitas

5. John Elway

6. Brett Favre

7. Peyton Manning

8. Steve Young

9. Otto Graham

10. Roger Staubach/Fran Tarkenton

---

TravC59, aka JacksJags. @TravC59 on Twitter
;
; "This is really good, you want a bite, Honey?"

Otto Graham is close to making my list, but his career was cut too short. I honestly don't know enough about Baugh.

 

  IMO,  Otto Graham's 4 seasons in the AAFC should count as part of his pro football record.   The reason being,  the Browns entered the NFL in 1950 and went on to win the NFL Championship in their first season in the NFL.   Including,  a one sided road win on opening day against the defending NFL Champion Philadelphia Eagles.

 

 Otto Graham played 10 seasons of pro football and never was one a team that didn't at least reach the League Championship game.   With 7 Championships ( 4 in the AAFC and 3 in the NFL ).    From a team QB standpoint,   I'm confident this will never be topped. 

 

 As for Sammy Baugh,  in one season,  he was All Pro at QB,  S,  and P.     I can't even imagine what type of contract Baugh would command if he was in his prime in 2015.  

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10.) Brett Favre

9.) Dan Marino

8.) Terry Bradshaw

7.) Steve Young

6.) Randall Cunningham

5.) Johnny Unitas

4.) Donovan McNabb

3.) Joe Montana

2.) Tom Brady

1.) Peyton Manning

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No Blaine Gabbert?  And you guys call yourselves fans, pssshht.

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In no particular order:

 

Manning

Brady

Marino

Elway

Aikman

Unitas

Starr

Staubach

Bradshaw

Montana

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

No Blaine Gabbert?  And you guys call yourselves fans, pssshht.

 

He's on another list of QBs entirely.

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I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

Anyone think of Warren Moon would have won a Super Bowl, he would have been in the conversation?

---

“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

Montana

Favre

Marino

...

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Anyone think of Warren Moon would have won a Super Bowl, he would have been in the conversation?

Not sure, but if you made a list of top 10 entertaining QBs, i'd venture to say he'd be a slam dunk there.

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Not sure, but if you made a list of top 10 entertaining QBs, i'd venture to say he'd be a slam dunk there.

 

Seconded. And he'd be top three in a top 10 underrated QB list, as well.

 

Whenever a QB conversation comes up, he's always forgotten until that one guy mentions him, and everyone is always like "Oh yeah..." Such a good QB in his time...and so often forgotten about.

---

<i>Behold man's final mad disgrace.</i>

<i>He chops his nose to spite his face.</i>

 

-Etrigan the Demon

 

Anyone think of Warren Moon would have won a Super Bowl, he would have been in the conversation?

 

Certainly.  I had him on the cusp with Favre.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pirkster" data-cid="493104" data-time="1432766297">
<div>
In no particular order:

 

Manning

Brady

Marino

Elway

Aikman

Unitas

Starr

Staubach

Bradshaw

Montana

 

Anyone think of Warren Moon would have won a Super Bowl, he would have been in the conversation? 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

 

Certainly.  I had him on the cusp with Favre.

I would think the "next tier" QBs would have to include (more in chronological order than anything)

 

Namath*

Dawson*

Griese*

Fouts*

Kelly*

Favre

Warner

Brees**

Roethlisberger**

Rodgers**

 

 

*-Hall of Fame enshrinee

**-Active

 

Where would you rank Moon* amongst this group?

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I would think the "next tier" QBs would have to include (more in chronological order than anything)

 

Namath*

Dawson*

Griese*

Fouts*

Kelly*

Favre

Warner

Brees**

Roethlisberger**

Rodgers**

 

 

*-Hall of Fame enshrinee

**-Active

 

Where would you rank Moon* amongst this group?

 

I would say probably between Favre and Warner personally.

 

I'm going to be honest, I don't remember a lot about those Oilers teams that were built around Moon, but I don't think they were anywhere near as talented as a collective as the vast majority of the other QBs have had that have been listed. As a result, he suffers from a similar "stigma" (for lack of a better word), that Marino did/does. He didn't win SBs so he gets demoted. Never mind the fact that he, unlike Aikman for example, wasn't on a team full of All Pros yet put up gaudy numbers for the majority of his career. I'd defer to yourself or D6 to help me out here. Despite liking and respecting Moon as a player, I am not anywhere near as versed in his Oilers teams as I probably should be, unlike I was with the Vikings and Rams of the 80s and 90s. I've always gotten the sense that it was him and a bunch of guys basically.

---

<i>Behold man's final mad disgrace.</i>

<i>He chops his nose to spite his face.</i>

 

-Etrigan the Demon

 

I would say probably between Favre and Warner personally.

 

I'm going to be honest, I don't remember a lot about those Oilers teams that were built around Moon, but I don't think they were anywhere near as talented as a collective as the vast majority of the other QBs have had that have been listed. As a result, he suffers from a similar "stigma" (for lack of a better word), that Marino did/does. He didn't win SBs so he gets demoted. Never mind the fact that he, unlike Aikman for example, wasn't on a team full of All Pros yet put up gaudy numbers for the majority of his career. I'd defer to yourself or D6 to help me out here. Despite liking and respecting Moon as a player, I am not anywhere near as versed in his Oilers teams as I probably should be, unlike I was with the Vikings and Rams of the 80s and 90s. I've always gotten the sense that it was him and a bunch of guys basically.

I remember those Oilers teams.

 

They are regularly cited by NFL Network as one of the most talented teams to never win a Super Bowl.

 

Those teams included Hall of Famers Mike Munchak and Bruce Matthews, and Pro Bowlers like Sean Jones, Ray Childress, Haywood Jeffries, Ernest Givins, William Fuller, Al Smith and Chris Dishman, among others.

 

That was the team that blew the 35-3 lead against Buffalo in 1992.

 

While I maintain that Moon is underrated to a degree, it wasn't because he lacked surrounding talent.

 

Had that team been able to make it to a Super Bowl, Moon would be more revered to this day.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

I remember those Oilers teams.

 

They are regularly cited by NFL Network as one of the most talented teams to never win a Super Bowl.

 

Those teams included Hall of Famers Mike Munchak and Bruce Matthews, and Pro Bowlers like Sean Jones, Ray Childress, Haywood Jeffries, Ernest Givins, William Fuller, Al Smith and Chris Dishman, among others.

 

That was the team that blew the 35-3 lead against Buffalo in 1992.

 

While I maintain that Moon is underrated to a degree, it wasn't because he lacked surrounding talent.

 

Had that team been able to make it to a Super Bowl, Moon would be more revered to this day.

 

  I agree with you that talent wasn't the issue with those Oilers teams.    You did a good job of illustrating their talent with some of the players you mentioned from those Oilers teams.  The Oilers  didn't seem to have the necessary amount of discipline and focus that's needed to get over the top.   This certainly wasn't a reflection of Warren Moon though. 

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