Sometimes the small business treats their employees worse. I spent 8 years running a mom and pop garage in the 3 months I've worked for a big chain company running one of their service departments I've seen a huge difference. They pay me better, give me vacation time, benefits, and better equipment to use. The small business guy wasn't hurting either he owned two million dollar shops had three houses paid for across two different countries he was just greedy. When we asked about insurance he told us he'd be willing to pay us Half our salaries under the table so we could get the omabacare, that's when I left.

Sounds like the answer could be a bit more socialism and worker rights ...

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Sounds like the answer could be a bit more socialism and worker rights ...

Nope I went to work for his competition who is paying me double, gave me benefits and paid time off. Capitalism at its finest, supply and demand.

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Nope I went to work for his competition who is paying me double, gave me benefits and paid time off. Capitalism at its finest, supply and demand.

After 8 years of no/little vacation?Beautiful capitalism...

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After 8 years of no/little vacation?Beautiful capitalism...

The system working flawlessly.

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The system working flawlessly.

Yep, the lazy workers don't deserve a decent pay or holiday. I need another holiday home...


Funny the different expectations, I was just thinking it's been a whole month since I had a weekday off as if that is unreasonable...

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So what you're finally getting to is that the owner can't stay in business if he had to pay the labour more than they're worth. Glad we finally agree.

It's pretty pathetic that the only way a business owner can stay in business is to have his customers subsidize their employees. Plenty of countries have thriving restraunt culture while paying decent wages to employees.

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After 8 years of no/little vacation?Beautiful capitalism...

8 years ago I had no experience in automotive, no tools, no degree and it was 3 of us in 4 bay shop. As the company grew so did my experience unfortunately the owner and myself disagreed on my worth. I didn't require government to dictate my worth to him, I valued my work more than he did so i found a company that valued my work more. I could've left 3 years ago and probably should've left for more pay. but starting with him and watching the company grow from the ground up to multiple locations was intoxicating. At one point I was even pondering purchasing the original location from him, but I decided not to get in bed with someone that had such loose ethics.


My point is more socialism/workers rights in my case would've just prevented me from getting into automotive. 8 years ago no one was going to pay me what I make today, I'm worth what i make because of the knowledge and experience I have. Guys that have done this for 20 years make more then I do because they have more knowledge and experience.

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8 years ago I had no experience in automotive, no tools, no degree and it was 3 of us in 4 bay shop. As the company grew so did my experience unfortunately the owner and myself disagreed on my worth. I didn't require government to dictate my worth to him, I valued my work more than he did so i found a company that valued my work more. I could've left 3 years ago and probably should've left for more pay. but starting with him and watching the company grow from the ground up to multiple locations was intoxicating. At one point I was even pondering purchasing the original location from him, but I decided not to get in bed with someone that had such loose ethics.


My point is more socialism/workers rights in my case would've just prevented me from getting into automotive. 8 years ago no one was going to pay me what I make today, I'm worth what i make because of the knowledge and experience I have. Guys that have done this for 20 years make more then I do because they have more knowledge and experience.

The system as it is isn't working. We are worse off now than we were in the past. Compared to cost of living our dollar doesn't go nearly as far now as it did. Health care costs are insane. Our education system sucks. We have more people incarcerated than anyone in the world. We have 4.4% of the worlds population but house 22% of the world's prison population (as of 2013). We have the widest wealth gap with top 5% than any developed country. And the gap has continued to widen. And the super rich are continuing to shape policies with less and less obstacles in their way. I'm just having a hard time seeing how the system, as it is now, is working.

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The system as it is isn't working. We are worse off now than we were in the past. Compared to cost of living our dollar doesn't go nearly as far now as it did. Health care costs are insane. Our education system sucks. We have more people incarcerated than anyone in the world. We have 4.4% of the worlds population but house 22% of the world's prison population (as of 2013). We have the widest wealth gap with top 5% than any developed country. And the gap has continued to widen. And the super rich are continuing to shape policies with less and less obstacles in their way. I'm just having a hard time seeing how the system, as it is now, is working.

 

Your tax dollars paid for this.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Your tax dollars paid for this.

I know you can do better than that.


Right now we have some of the lowest tax rates in our history especially when it comes to the super rich. I'm not sure this is helping your argument.

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I know you can do better than that.


Right now we have some of the lowest tax rates in our history especially when it comes to the super rich. I'm not sure this is helping your argument.

 

OK, the money the federal government magically creates is paying for this.


 

Greed and Envy much? What the 'super rich' have is as unimportant as what some space alien might have. What matters is what normal people have, and the average American is a lot richer than 50 years ago.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

OK, the money the federal government magically creates is paying for this.


Greed and Envy much? What the 'super rich' have is as unimportant as what some space alien might have. What matters is what normal people have, and the average American is a lot richer than 50 years ago.

Richer in what regard? Accounting for inflation?

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OK, the money the federal government magically creates is paying for this.


 

Greed and Envy much? What the 'super rich' have is as unimportant as what some space alien might have. What matters is what normal people have, and the average American is a lot richer than 50 years ago.

 

What?  It is virtually stagnant.  If you look at the buying power today compared to the last 50 years for the middle class the chart looks exactly like a dead persons.  Flat line.   

 

No, what the super rich has is extremely important.  It has nothing to do with "greed" or "envy".  Just a realization that they are gaining more and more power and getting a whole lot richer.  Money is power.  And now the flood gates are open to controlling policies that'll shape this country.  I'm not sure if you use those terms to deflect the conversation into something I'm not arguing or what.  You stack the odds in your favor than guess what?  You will win.  Just as casinos do.  And right now the odds are favoring the super rich more and more and more which isn't by accident.  They are making sure of it.  That isn't some empty talking point.  Just look at the numbers.

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Richer in what regard? Accounting for inflation?

 

Obviously not.

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Richer in what regard? Accounting for inflation?

 

Accounting for possessions and quality of life. Just as an example, 50 years ago most people didn't have air conditioning.


 

I'm in a relatively poor neighborhood, but still the cars here are a lot better than they were in 1965, more newer cars with more features. Most people have a cell phone, cable TV with 60+ channels (on a much better TV), and a computer connected to the internet. Health care is better with vaccines for a lot of the diseases that were common in 1965 and a lot fewer people are smoking; people live longer and more healthy lives.


 

Sure things are more expensive, and salaries haven't kept up with inflation, even the low rate lie that the all-powerful government feeds us. But people are better off, nonetheless.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

8 years ago I had no experience in automotive, no tools, no degree and it was 3 of us in 4 bay shop. As the company grew so did my experience unfortunately the owner and myself disagreed on my worth. I didn't require government to dictate my worth to him, I valued my work more than he did so i found a company that valued my work more. I could've left 3 years ago and probably should've left for more pay. but starting with him and watching the company grow from the ground up to multiple locations was intoxicating. At one point I was even pondering purchasing the original location from him, but I decided not to get in bed with someone that had such loose ethics.


My point is more socialism/workers rights in my case would've just prevented me from getting into automotive. 8 years ago no one was going to pay me what I make today, I'm worth what i make because of the knowledge and experience I have. Guys that have done this for 20 years make more then I do because they have more knowledge and experience.

I'm not saying you shouldn't get paid more as you gain experience, but you should start at a decent base. Why aren't low end employees worthy of vacation?

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The system as it is isn't working. We are worse off now than we were in the past. Compared to cost of living our dollar doesn't go nearly as far now as it did. Health care costs are insane. Our education system sucks. We have more people incarcerated than anyone in the world. We have 4.4% of the worlds population but house 22% of the world's prison population (as of 2013). We have the widest wealth gap with top 5% than any developed country. And the gap has continued to widen. And the super rich are continuing to shape policies with less and less obstacles in their way. I'm just having a hard time seeing how the system, as it is now, is working.

I was speaking in response to my situations and the suggestion I would've benefited more from socialist policies.

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I'm not saying you shouldn't get paid more as you gain experience, but you should start at a decent base. Why aren't low end employees worthy of vacation?

Why Is a vacation the governments business? I wanted paid time off so I sought a company offering it.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/uks...42833.html


Can also save money and get better services with socialism in healthcare...

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I'm not saying you shouldn't get paid more as you gain experience, but you should start at a decent base. Why aren't low end employees worthy of vacation?

 

He was getting an education in the business while he worked. Isn't that worth a lot in and of itself (especially with the outrageous tuition rates these days).

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"