But you still miss the point with the Cleveland analogy.

 

The argument was made (I apologize because I can't recall who made it just a page or so ago) that the extension sends a bad message to free agents that the team is not trying to win.

 

Cleveland has not had a winning season in a long time, certainly not for the duration of Thomas' tenure there, and not for the duration of Pettine's tenure there.

 

Thomas has been vocal about wanting to win.

 

But he has also been vocal in his support about keeping Pettine.  Why?  Pettine hadn't had a winning season.  Apparently for some reason, Thomas didn't think keeping Pettine was synonymous with endorsing losing.

 

Same thing with Tampa.

 

No, there hasn't been the wild instability here there has been in Cleveland and Tampa.

 

But the point is that extending the coach does not necessarily equal endorsing losing.  Firing the coach does not necessarily equal ending the losing.

 

Yes, but Pettine managed a 7-9 record last year, and has had to work without a starting Quarterback.  And he still didn't get a third year. 


Extending the coach when he hasn't earned it doesn't endorse winning either.  Did Gus earn this extension?  Most would agree he did not.  

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

I see this as a "MAKE THE PLAYOFFS BY YEAR 5 OR WE'RE CLEANING HOUSE"

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So, after blasting Babich all year long for being a lousy coordinator, now that he's gone, we need to shift the blame.  Amirite?

 

Babich was a puppet.  He's a scapegoat... which ive said all along.  Now that he's gone, OH WELL WE ARE GOING TO DO SO MUCH GREATNESS!

 

It's empty talk.  These coaches were on the staff already.  Anything the defense lacked this past season they are also responsible for.  So these improvements they speak of needs to start with themselves as coaches.

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Blame Bradley for lack of discipline on defense if you like, but we can't really blame Wash for that.   He was on the staff last year, but he was D-line coach, not coordinator or head coach.  Babich gets the blame.  Bradley might deserves some of the blame.  But Wash?  I mean I'm not a fan of the hire, but I don't think we can blame him for discipline issues last year.

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I was wrong about Trent Baalke. 

Has there ever been a contract extension in any major sport for a coach who has done less?  Maybe the coach of the Generals against the Globetrotters...

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"I'm not mad, I'm proud of you. You took your first pinch like a man and you learn two great things in your life. Look at me, never rat on your friends and always keep your mouth shut." - Jimmy Conway

Babich was a puppet.  He's a scapegoat... which ive said all along.  Now that he's gone, OH WELL WE ARE GOING TO DO SO MUCH GREATNESS!

 

It's empty talk.  These coaches were on the staff already.  Anything the defense lacked this past season they are also responsible for.  So these improvements they speak of needs to start with themselves as coaches.

 

If Wash is being given play calling responsibilities, and he has a very different philosophy from the guy he's replacing in that role, I expect to see changes on the field.  I don't know if it's "empty talk" or not until we see the product HE puts on the field this year. 

 

"Anything the defense lacked..."  Does that include key injuries to guys like Fowler or Marks?  How are they responsible for losing the two best linemen you have on your defense? 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Blame Bradley for lack of discipline on defense if you like, but we can't really blame Wash for that.   He was on the staff last year, but he was D-line coach, not coordinator or head coach.  Babich gets the blame.  Bradley might deserves some of the blame.  But Wash?  I mean I'm not a fan of the hire, but I don't think we can blame him for discipline issues last year.

 

 

This idea that Babich was holding back greatness in the rest of the coaching staff is just total nonsense and pure hype.

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Yes, but Pettine managed a 7-9 record last year, and has had to work without a starting Quarterback.  And he still didn't get a third year. 


Extending the coach when he hasn't earned it doesn't endorse winning either.  Did Gus earn this extension?  Most would agree he did not.  

1. No...Pettine DIDN'T earn a 3rd year.  But I don't want this team to emulate Cleveland.

 

2.  I wouldn't say Bradley earned the extension, either, based solely on the record.  In fact, I would even suggest that given Khan's stated expectations of significant improvement being required next year, that he hasn't been thrilled with the W-l record.  But he seemingly has endorsed this extension by permitting it.  Why?  If it was purely Caldwell's decision, why would he risk endangering himself by extending Bradley one more year against Khan's wishes? 

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Has there ever been a contract extension in any major sport for a coach who has done less?  Maybe the coach of the Generals against the Globetrotters...

Has there ever been a contract extension that carried less weight or significance?

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

This idea that Babich was holding back greatness in the rest of the coaching staff is just total nonsense and pure hype.

 

It's not about "holding back greatness" but hyperbole all you want.

 

The style of the play calling reflects the guy actually DOING the play calling.  That situation has changed with Babich being fired and Wash taking over.  We'll see if Wash is able to leverage the talent he has to improve this defense. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

They have confidence in their plan. Mr Khan, Caldwell, have stated this publicly many times. I don't understand how anyone could not know this.

 

Not to mention that every player that has come into contact with Bradley have said that they believe in him and would run through walls for him. Their effort through a tough couple of years have certainly shown that they do not quit on him.

 

I would just like to see them run through the opposing team for him.

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I survived the Gus Bradley Error.

If Wash is being given play calling responsibilities, and he has a very different philosophy from the guy he's replacing in that role, I expect to see changes on the field.  I don't know if it's "empty talk" or not until we see the product HE puts on the field this year. 

 

"Anything the defense lacked..."  Does that include key injuries to guys like Fowler or Marks?  How are they responsible for losing the two best linemen you have on your defense? 

 

It's the same scheme.  Maybe he will be better at playcalling by being more unpredictable, but expecting huge changes makes no sense.  This is Gus' defense.  Always has been.

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It's not about "holding back greatness" but hyperbole all you want.

 

The style of the play calling reflects the guy actually DOING the play calling.  That situation has changed with Babich being fired and Wash taking over.  We'll see if Wash is able to leverage the talent he has to improve this defense. 

 

Playcalling didn't just come out of Babich's rear end on the fly.  They game plan for that and Gus was 100% involved.

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Playcalling didn't just come out of Babich's rear end on the fly.  They game plan for that and Gus was 100% involved.

I don't care if you've got the greatest play caller on the planet drawing up a game plan.  When you've got players not understanding their assignments, playing out of position, taking bad angles, or just whiffing on tackles, that's a discipline issue.  If it didn't get cleaned up, that's on the coordinator to address.  He didn't.  He's been fired as a result. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

It's the same scheme.  Maybe he will be better at playcalling by being more unpredictable, but expecting huge changes makes no sense.  This is Gus' defense.  Always has been.

If they clean up the issues he pointed out, that SHOULD improve the defense significantly.  Wash said during his presser that the scheme isn't broken.  It's just not being executed with the precision required.  That's what he'll address. 

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Never argue with idiots. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

It's not about "holding back greatness" but hyperbole all you want.

 

The style of the play calling reflects the guy actually DOING the play calling.  That situation has changed with Babich being fired and Wash taking over.  We'll see if Wash is able to leverage the talent he has to improve this defense. 

(Emphasis added)

 

It also reflects game scenarios, game planning, and available talent.

 

But most importantly, it damn well better reflect improved performance and wins and losses.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

lol love this thread.

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:thanks: Extra Life 2016 is 11/05/16 :thanks:

What a joke

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I don't care if you've got the greatest play caller on the planet drawing up a game plan.  When you've got players not understanding their assignments, playing out of position, taking bad angles, or just whiffing on tackles, that's a discipline issue.  If it didn't get cleaned up, that's on the coordinator to address.  He didn't.  He's been fired as a result. 

 

So it's only on the coordinator for those issues?

 

I will agree the players were the greatest detriment to the performance.  You can have a great playcaller, but without good players it's going to be futile.  Part of the reason the players were out of position is because they aren't good enough in between their ears to understand the pro game.  We need new players.

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This is meaningless. If were 2 and 6 at the half way mark hes gone. We all know that.


They have to go get free agents. When they decided to bring him back something like this made sense. It doesnt mean anything.

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