Old timers love to use the "championships!" card when it suits them (Jordan) but deny it when it doesn't (Kobe).

 

I think the major argument is that for 3 of Kobe's 5 championships he wasn't even the best player on his team.  That has been the main argument I have heard about Kobe's 5 rings.  

 

Disclaimer - I feel completely neutral towards Kobe.  Congrats to him and his career.

---

“It is the job of thinking people not to be on the side of the executioners.”
― Albert Camus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobe_Bryan...sault_case

---

You don't think he's the 2nd best shooting guard in the history of the NBA?

Jerry West, Reggie Miller, Clyde the Glide, Allen Iverson and Pistol Pete all say no. 

 

P.S.  Hondo wants to know if his "Small forward/Shooting guard" job title cost him the title.

---

When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

Jerry West, Reggie Miller, Clyde the Glide, Allen Iverson and Pistol Pete all say no. 

 

P.S.  Hondo wants to know if his "Small forward/Shooting guard" job title cost him the title.

 

Reggie Miller and Allen Iverson who not better than Kobe. Are you kidding?

---

Reggie Miller and Allen Iverson who not better than Kobe. Are you kidding?

 

Reggie was probably the best shooter in the history of the game.  Nice to know you concede the others though.

---

When you get into the endzone, act like you've been there before.

Reggie was probably the best shooter in the history of the game.  Nice to know you concede the others though.

 

Reggie was probably best shooter in the history of the game. That does not make him a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant.

 

 

Also, I hate Kobe Bryant and loved Reggie Miller. Kobe was the better overall player, though, and it isn't that close.

---

I didn't concede the others, btw. I'm just pointing out the foolishness in saying that Reggie and Allen Iverson were better players than Kobe.

---

I am too lazy to go through, but did someone really say Miller and Iverson were better players than Kobe? 

 

Also, Kobe WAS the best player on the Lakers. 

---

I am too lazy to go through, but did someone really say Miller and Iverson were better players than Kobe?


Also, Kobe WAS the best player on the Lakers.

Shaq was.

---

Shaq was.

 

I am not sure if you are kidding or not. Kobe and Shaq have 3 championships together. Kobe won 2 additional rings being the top dog on his team.

 

Shaq won an additional one in Miami riding D. Wades coat tails.

 

I loved Shaq then and even more so now, but come on...

---

I am not sure if you are kidding or not. Kobe and Shaq have 3 championships together. Kobe won 2 additional rings being the top dog on his team.


Shaq won an additional one in Miami riding D. Wades coat tails.


I loved Shaq then and even more so now, but come on...

I'm talking about the 3 peat. Shaq was the better player and more important than Bryant.

---

My favorite Kobe moment was when he said Shaq paid off women that were accusing him of rape  ---  you know, while he himself was being actually charged with rape. 

 

#class

---

We just had this conversation on the Rivals college basketball forum earlier this year. I think Prime Shaq as possibly the most dominant player in NBA history.

 

2000 NBA Finals (6 games)

38.0 points per game

16.7 rebounds per game

2.7 blocks per game

 

 

That is pretty nuts.

 

 

 

That being said, Kobe and Shaq were about as 1a and 1b as you can get whichever way you lean. Both sides have merit.

---

We just had this conversation on the Rivals college basketball forum earlier this year. I think Prime Shaq as possibly the most dominant player in NBA history.


2000 NBA Finals (6 games)

38.0 points per game

16.7 rebounds per game

2.7 blocks per game



That is pretty nuts.




That being said, Kobe and Shaq were about as 1a and 1b as you can get whichever way you lean. Both sides have merit.

Fully agree ,I'm not trying to take away from Kobe by saying that because he was an amazing player in his own right but if someone told told you to go back in time and try do that 3 peat with Shaq or Kobe who do you pick? I think the answer is obvious.

---

We just had this conversation on the Rivals college basketball forum earlier this year. I think Prime Shaq as possibly the most dominant player in NBA history.

 

 

 

I'm not fan enough of the NBA to make any declarations on the topic, but, they did change the damn rules because of his performance. 

---

Fully agree ,I'm not trying to take away from Kobe by saying that because he was an amazing player in his own right but if someone told told you to go back in time and try do that 3 peat with Shaq or Kobe who do you pick? I think the answer is obvious.

We can agree to disagree.

---

We can agree to disagree.

We could but I'd like to hear why you'd pick Kobe. Do the Lakers get to the Finals those three years with only Kobe? Nope. Do they get to the finals with only Shaq? Yep most likely.

---

We could but I'd like to hear why you'd pick Kobe. Do the Lakers get to the Finals those three years with only Kobe? Nope. Do they get to the finals with only Shaq? Yep most likely.

 

I am not understanding your logic because Kobe got the Lakers to the finals two years without Shaq and won.

 

Once again, I am not taking anything away from Shaq because he was one of the last true centers the NBA has had and I feel lucky having gotten to watch him live in Orlando all those years when he was still breaking rims.

 

Having said that, if you use the old "if you were starting a team from scratch, who would you build around" argument, small forward/shooting guard is way more essential to a teams success than center play, so in their primes, I am going Kobe all day over Shaq.

 

During his prime years, I never even liked Kobe, but respected his game. Outside MJ, I have never seen a guy who could create his own shot better than Kobe. He hardly ever relied on complicated offensive sets and 5 pick and rolls to get his shot. A rarity in today's NBA.

---

I am not understanding your logic because Kobe got the Lakers to the finals two years without Shaq and won.


Once again, I am not taking anything away from Shaq because he was one of the last true centers the NBA has had and I feel lucky having gotten to watch him live in Orlando all those years when he was still breaking rims.


Having said that, if you use the old "if you were starting a team from scratch, who would you build around" argument, small forward/shooting guard is way more essential to a teams success than center play, so in their primes, I am going Kobe all day over Shaq.


During his prime years, I never even liked Kobe, but respected his game. Outside MJ, I have never seen a guy who could create his own shot better than Kobe. He hardly ever relied on complicated offensive sets and 5 pick and rolls to get his shot. A rarity in today's NBA.

Its not that hard to understand. 1999-2002 Kobe is not that same Kobe as 2008-2010 Kobe. Nowadays yes center is less important but if you were put back in 1999 and told to pick either 1999-2002 Shaq or Kobe from the same era who do you pick? The answer is Shaq everytime,you don't win a championship without him during that time period.

---

Its not that hard to understand. 1999-2002 Kobe is not that same Kobe as 2008-2010 Kobe. Nowadays yes center is less important but if you were put back in 1999 and told to pick either 1999-2002 Shaq or Kobe from the same era who do you pick? The answer is Shaq everytime,you don't win a championship without him during that time period.

 

Kobe's PPG average was very similar from 1999-2002 as it was between 2008-2010. They also essentially averaged the same amount of points during 1999-2002, so I am not sure where you get this idea from that Shaq was way better thank Kobe. Shaq also only averaged about 3 assists per game during his time with the Lakers, so it's not like he was a great passing big man once the double team came. Also, he was a huge liability at the free throw line his entire career.

 

So, you say "The answer is Shaq every time". I don't agree with you, and neither do the stats.

---