Man, it ain't often that Ozzie gets fleeced so it really stands out when he does. And he doesn't even go into the fact that Monroe cost them a Fifth Round pick either.

This deserves to be revisited on the main board. 

 

There are plenty that, to this day, continue to hammer Caldwell for trading him.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

At 6-5, 300, Eugene has good size for a LG, and he's always been a great run blocker. I'm wondering if he just might be a better LG than anyone else we're trying to plug in there. Have the Ravens ever worked him out at G?


 

I also like that if Caldwell re-signs him, and he does great, Caldwell will look like the boss. It reminds me of when the Eagles got Hugh Monroe back on the cheap along with a few other star vets who had moved on in free agency.

---

'02

Interesting story developing...

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/earl...he-ravens/

 

 

As long as he's not using. I'd hate to think his release had anything to do with a pending suspension.

---

'02

Upon further review, the reason the Ravens probably chose to mention this in his release at all was they're still getting over the Ray Rice debacle.


If there's any chance for them to look as if taking a moral stand or seeking high ground, they'll take any + they can give themselves.

I think you hit the nail on the head Pirk.

---

At 6-5, 300, Eugene has good size for a LG, and he's always been a great run blocker. I'm wondering if he just might be a better LG than anyone else we're trying to plug in there. Have the Ravens ever worked him out at G?


 

I also like that if Caldwell re-signs him, and he does great, Caldwell will look like the boss. It reminds me of when the Eagles got Hugh Monroe back on the cheap along with a few other star vets who had moved on in free agency.

Who the hell is Hugh Monroe?

 

Who Douglas maybe? :thumbsup:

---

What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.







 

Who the hell is Hugh Monroe?

 

Who Douglas maybe? :thumbsup:

 

 

Yeah...Hugh Douglas. ...I must have had Eugene's last name on my mind.

---

'02

he makes the most sense for NY or CHI imo

---

He met with the Giants, and has turned down an offer from them, as they want him to play right tackle.  He only wants a team that will keep him at left tackle.  Beachum is better than Monroe....pass.

---

He met with the Giants, and has turned down an offer from them, as they want him to play right tackle. He only wants a team that will keep him at left tackle. Beachum is better than Monroe....pass.

source?

---

source?

Grabbed this one quick...  

 

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/6/18/11...per-report

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This deserves to be revisited on the main board. 

 

There are plenty that, to this day, continue to hammer Caldwell for trading him.

 

I continue to "hammer" Caldwell for the trade.


 

For the 2nd pick in the 2013 draft + Monroe we ended up with Joeckel, Colvin, and Chris Smith.


 

Had we kept Monroe we'd have had Monroe instead of Joeckel which I see as a wash, plus whatever we could have gotten with the #2 pick in place of Colvin and Smith.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I continue to "hammer" Caldwell for the trade.


For the 2nd pick in the 2013 draft + Monroe we ended up with Joeckel, Colvin, and Chris Smith.


Had we kept Monroe we'd have had Monroe instead of Joeckel which I see as a wash, plus whatever we could have gotten with the #2 pick in place of Colvin and Smith.

And Monroe's contract on the books.


You know, the one that the team would have needed to sign him to in order for him to be on the roster past 2015. Left Tackle kinda money.

---

I'm trying to make myself more informed and less opinionated.

Stop saying whatever stupid thing you're talking about and pay attention to all the interesting things I have to say!

And Monroe's contract on the books.


You know, the one that the team would have needed to sign him to in order for him to be on the roster past 2015. Left Tackle kinda money.

 

The Jags were flush with cap room. Monroe wouldn't have been that much more expensive than Joeckel, and the contract could have been structured so that the remaining cap hit would be no more than Joeckel's by 2015. Maybe even less.


 

I consider Joeckel and Monroe to be equally mediocre. So effectively the Jags traded a 2013 1st for a 2014 4th and 5th, and an extra (say) $20M in Khan's pocket.

 

The first round in 2013 was poor. The 2014 4th turned into Colvin, who showed a lot of promise at first (but bad coaching?). The 2014 5th, Chris Smith, never developed into anything. So in retrospect the trade is probably a wash, mediocre starter (Monroe) for mediocre starter (Colvin). The real loss is the lost possibility that Caldwell could have traded the 2013 pick for something better.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

I continue to "hammer" Caldwell for the trade.


 

For the 2nd pick in the 2013 draft + Monroe we ended up with Joeckel, Colvin, and Chris Smith.


 

Had we kept Monroe we'd have had Monroe instead of Joeckel which I see as a wash, plus whatever we could have gotten with the #2 pick in place of Colvin and Smith.

If we didn't have the extra picks to play with from that trade and the Mike Thomas deal, we wouldn't have had the ammo to move up to get Robinson and Linder.

 

Could we have possibly traded 144 to move up for Robinson?  Sure, but then we wouldn't have Telvin Smith, who according to players, is among the top 100 players in the league.

 

Could we have traded pick 205 for Linder?  Doubtful.  We traded 105 and 179 to move up into the 3rd to get Linder.  205 would have cost NE (?) an extra 25 picks in value in the 6th round.

 

Had we not made that deal, here's how that great 2014 draft probably would have looked.

 

1-Bortles

2a-Lee

2b-Robinson

4-Colvin

6-Luke Bowanko

7. Storm Johnson

 

This reflects the trade for Robinson where we gave up 70 and 105 to move back into the 2nd round to get Robinson.  This again assumes the Jaguars have the same freedom to move up absent the extra 4 and 5 obtained for Monroe.

 

Had the Jaguars been less inclined to move up for Robinson without the extra picks to play with...

 

1.  Bortles

2.  Lee

3.  Linder

4. Colvin

5.  ???- Maybe Telvin Smith if he would have been on the board at 150 instead of 144 when he was taken.

 

 

Either way, keeping Monroe likely costs us at least one, maybe 2 key players from that great 2014 draft class.  Smith and Robinson were ranked in the NFL's top 100.  Not only that, but as of this year, we'd still have a hole at LT, a bigger contract, and minus 1-2 other key contributors.

 

But hey, maybe we don't need Robinson or Linder or Telvin Smith.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

If we didn't have the extra picks to play with from that trade and the Mike Thomas deal, we wouldn't have had the ammo to move up to get Robinson and Linder.

 

Could we have possibly traded 144 to move up for Robinson?  Sure, but then we wouldn't have Telvin Smith, who according to players, is among the top 100 players in the league.

 

Could we have traded pick 205 for Linder?  Doubtful.  We traded 105 and 179 to move up into the 3rd to get Linder.  205 would have cost NE (?) an extra 25 picks in value in the 6th round.

 

Had we not made that deal, here's how that great 2014 draft probably would have looked.

 

1-Bortles

2a-Lee

2b-Robinson

4-Colvin

6-Luke Bowanko

7. Storm Johnson

 

This reflects the trade for Robinson where we gave up 70 and 105 to move back into the 2nd round to get Robinson.  This again assumes the Jaguars have the same freedom to move up absent the extra 4 and 5 obtained for Monroe.

 

Had the Jaguars been less inclined to move up for Robinson without the extra picks to play with...

 

1.  Bortles

2.  Lee

3.  Linder

4. Colvin

5.  ???- Maybe Telvin Smith if he would have been on the board at 150 instead of 144 when he was taken.

 

 

Either way, keeping Monroe likely costs us at least one, maybe 2 key players from that great 2014 draft class.  Smith and Robinson were ranked in the NFL's top 100.  Not only that, but as of this year, we'd still have a hole at LT, a bigger contract, and minus 1-2 other key contributors.

 

But hey, maybe we don't need Robinson or Linder or Telvin Smith.

 

Lots of maybes there. I can come up with another. Maybe the Jags trade the #2 pick in the 2013 draft for the 12th and 42nd picks (what Oakland got for pick 3), draft Richardson or Lotulelei, and trade the 42nd pick for a 2014 2nd round pick which they use on Robinson (or a 1st which they use on Beckham). With no trade up needed in round 2 they still have the round 3 pick to get Linder and the round 4 pick for Colvin.


And hindsight is 20/20. If the Pats had acquired the 6th round pick that they used to draft Brady by trading a 1st for it, would you laud such a trade just because the Pats got lucky with the 6th round pick?


 

With Monroe at LT Caldwell (who claimed to be a needs drafter!) shouldn't have drafted Joeckel. Since he did take Joeckel, Caldwell also should have shopped Monroe rather than taking the first offer he got from the Ravens. A starting LT who was very good in 2012 (admittedly struggled early in 2013, but under a zone blocking scheme that was new to him) was worth more than a 4th and 5th.

---

                                                                          

"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"

Lots of maybes there. I can come up with another. Maybe the Jags trade the #2 pick in the 2013 draft for the 12th and 42nd picks (what Oakland got for pick 3), draft Richardson or Lotulelei, and trade the 42nd pick for a 2014 2nd round pick which they use on Robinson (or a 1st which they use on Beckham). With no trade up needed in round 2 they still have the round 3 pick to get Linder and the round 4 pick for Colvin.


And hindsight is 20/20. If the Pats had acquired the 6th round pick that they used to draft Brady by trading a 1st for it, would you laud such a trade just because the Pats got lucky with the 6th round pick?


 

With Monroe at LT Caldwell (who claimed to be a needs drafter!) shouldn't have drafted Joeckel. Since he did take Joeckel, Caldwell also should have shopped Monroe rather than taking the first offer he got from the Ravens. A starting LT who was very good in 2012 (admittedly struggled early in 2013, but under a zone blocking scheme that was new to him) was worth more than a 4th and 5th.

The difference is, my answer dealt with as many definites as possible.  I plugged in the players we actually took into the draft scenarios.  I did not imagine the team was interested in any other player (though undoubtedly they had to have considered other players, we don't know who those players were).  I plugged the players in to the rounds as they were drafted.

 

Do you have any evidence supporting that the Miami offered that to move up to 2 in that draft?  We know they were willing to move to three, but do we have any definitive proof they offered that to us at 2, or that Caldwell would have taken that deal if offered?  For that matter, do we have any indicia Jacksonville would have taken Richardson or Lotuleilei there at 12?

 

At the end of the day, you are complaining about a draft that, as it stands now, is likely one of the best ever drafts in team history.  That's a difficult case to make.

---

 

Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ana-cause/


stinkin tacks to cut ties with Morgan?

---

I continue to "hammer" Caldwell for the trade.


 

For the 2nd pick in the 2013 draft + Monroe we ended up with Joeckel, Colvin, and Chris Smith.


 

Had we kept Monroe we'd have had Monroe instead of Joeckel which I see as a wash, plus whatever we could have gotten with the #2 pick in place of Colvin and Smith.

 

Except Monroe was a free agent, and had stated he wasn't resigning, and we weren't going to use the franchise tag on him.

 

It also happened at a time when our season was already lost, and the Ravens were in playoff contention.  We sold (ahem) high.

 

Despite an incredible outcry from the Caldwell haters, it was a good trade for the Jags.

---

LOL...

 

We made out good on a trade and some still try to manufacture reasons they were "right" about being wrong on keeping him.

---

"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

Do you have any evidence supporting that the Miami offered that to move up to 2 in that draft?  We know they were willing to move to three, but do we have any definitive proof they offered that to us at 2, or that Caldwell would have taken that deal if offered?  For that matter, do we have any indicia Jacksonville would have taken Richardson or Lotuleilei there at 12?

 

I doubt Miami made the offer. Caldwell was allowed to make such an offer himself, he didn't have to sit on his hands and hope that some other team would call.
 He himself said that he won't initiate a trade down, the request has to come from the other team. So opportunities are missed, and will continue to be missed.

 

I have no idea who the Jags would have taken at 12 had the trade been made. I just plugged in the best two of the next three picks that year. Caldwell has been a very good judge of talent, so it's reasonable to think he'd pick a good player in that scenario.


 

I like Caldwell and have been very impressed with his drafting. But he's not a shrewd trader, and has never traded down. In the end, picking the right guy is a lot more important than getting top value. I just believe he could have done even better.

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"Why should I give information to you when all you want to do is find something wrong with it?"