lol, I just noticed it. That is flat out embarrassing.

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Lageman discussed the play on the 9/20 Jaguars Today.


He said the defense was in "4 under, 3 deep zone." Gratz was supposed to hand off his man to Poz, who in turn should've handed off to Gipson. Gratz was supposed to "squeeze" back into the flat.


Gratz was responsible for that zone, according to him. It's at the 21 minute mark for anyone that cares to listen.

 

Gratz. If we're to assume that only one person made a mistake and that everyone else were doing their job, you can clearly see that it was Cover 3 (House, Gipson, Cyp). Which means Gratz had no business running with the receiver to that spot.

 

I disagree with the poster who said Poz has responsibility for the shallow, who backed up almost immediately after the snap. IMO, if its not Cover 3 with Cyp, Gipson, and House with deep responsibilities, the only other possible coverage we could be playing here is also another Cover 3 Cyp, Gratz, and Gipson. Positioning wise, it kind of makes sense.

 

*Poz dropping back fits this cover 3 look

*Gratz also dropping back early (earlier than Poz, and also his positioning) fits this look

*Ramsey passing his receiver and staying underneath

 

If you look at what those three guys are doing, then it is possible that Gratz is supposed to have the middle 3rd responsibility, with Gipson having the deep left 3rd responsibility. Which means House wasn't supposed to bail (he was supposed to do the same thing Ramsey did, which is play underneath). I don't believe this is the case though, as Gipson was playing more in the middle (and Gratz was giving a man look vs zone look), this would mean two players did the wrong thing (him and House). But as I said, I think Gratz being at fault here makes more sense because a DB playing man going into what is a 3 deep zone just doesn't make sense.

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Regardless of who or what, it goes back to this: in four years we're still having defensive breakdowns at a simpleton level. Clearly the coaches either:


1. Know these players aren't capable of running this scheme and therefore there's blown coverage, missed assignments, etc. but still insist on putting square pegs in round holes


2. Are sitting around like us and wondering who screwed up their assignment and they sincerely can't figure out why the defense is failing.


3. Are trying every different defensive formation they can think of (which is fair, as from watching the games you can tell they've tried different coverages, hybrid formulas etc.) but nothing is working.


None of these options are comforting. Vote early, vote often

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Gratz. If we're to assume that only one person made a mistake and that everyone else were doing their job, you can clearly see that it was Cover 3 (House, Gipson, Cyp). Which means Gratz had no business running with the receiver to that spot.

 

I disagree with the poster who said Poz has responsibility for the shallow, who backed up almost immediately after the snap. IMO, if its not Cover 3 with Cyp, Gipson, and House with deep responsibilities, the only other possible coverage we could be playing here is also another Cover 3 Cyp, Gratz, and Gipson. Positioning wise, it kind of makes sense.

 

*Poz dropping back fits this cover 3 look

*Gratz also dropping back early (earlier than Poz, and also his positioning) fits this look

*Ramsey passing his receiver and staying underneath

 

If you look at what those three guys are doing, then it is possible that Gratz is supposed to have the middle 3rd responsibility, with Gipson having the deep left 3rd responsibility. Which means House wasn't supposed to bail (he was supposed to do the same thing Ramsey did, which is play underneath). I don't believe this is the case though, as Gipson was playing more in the middle (and Gratz was giving a man look vs zone look), this would mean two players did the wrong thing (him and House). But as I said, I think Gratz being at fault here makes more sense because a DB playing man going into what is a 3 deep zone just doesn't make sense.

My problem with the analysis is that after Ramsey releases the receiver no one picks him up. The guy is wide open running across the field. He is open for a sizable gain well before he even reaches Gratz's zone which is completely on the other side of the field.

 

Who is supposed to be covering the middle underneath? The only person who has position to cover that part of the field is Poz and he drops deep.

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I hope people are aware that there are different forms of cover 3.

 

Meaning 2 Safetys + 1 corner can have deep thirds with a corner covering a flat. Etc. 

 

Sorry if this was mentioned already.

 

I am also not sure if players have the approval to change on the fly via communication. Maybe Cyp and Ramsey communicated to switch right before the play got off, switching assignments.

Not sure if this is a thing though. I acknowledge that this was away from the ball. 

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I really appreciate all the analysis of what happened on that play. Obviously some of you know more about NFL defenses than I do.


That said, there is something missing from all the talk about who is to blame for the blown coverage, was it Gratz, was it Poz, etc, and that is, there are TWO players wide open on that play. The ENTIRE underneath portion of the defense is wide open. Not just on one side; the whole thing. One San Diego player in the deep middle is TRIPLE COVERED and two San Diego players are wide open underneath.


This is evidence of such a massive level of confusion,I don't see how we can assign blame to one single player.

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Okay, now this gif makes it pretty obvious. This a zone defense with Gratz leaving his zone, probably thinking he was in man defense. Jesus.

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I really appreciate all the analysis of what happened on that play. Obviously some of you know more about NFL defenses than I do.


That said, there is something missing from all the talk about who is to blame for the blown coverage, was it Gratz, was it Poz, etc, and that is, there are TWO players wide open on that play. The ENTIRE underneath portion of the defense is wide open. Not just on one side; the whole thing. One San Diego player in the deep middle is TRIPLE COVERED and two San Diego players are wide open underneath.


This is evidence of such a massive level of confusion,I don't see how we can assign blame to one single player.

Yep, Gordon was wide open for a checkdown. And then we had the play in the redzone where both Poz and Telvin chased after the back leaking out of the backfield. The defense was a complete mess. "Obviously not one of our best performances."

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Make the Jags Great Again
Blake Bortles......YOU'RE FIRED!
Dave Caldwell.....YOU'RE FIRED!

This is a blown coverage.


What should be of more concern is the fact that Wash has decided that in cover 1 man coverage that Poz is responsible for the 3rd WR...usually the fastest and most agile man on the field.


Even 14 year old Madden players know how stupid that is.

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My problem with the analysis is that after Ramsey releases the receiver no one picks him up. The guy is wide open running across the field. He is open for a sizable gain well before he even reaches Gratz's zone which is completely on the other side of the field.

 

Who is supposed to be covering the middle underneath? The only person who has position to cover that part of the field is Poz and he drops deep.

 

Assuming Gratz is actually at fault, he would have been right where Benjamin caught the ball (LOS was 44, Gratz was initially at 42.) Telvin (?) covered the hook. Poz rode the receiver deep and with help up top. If Benjamin is running an option route and sits instead of crossing all the way, Gratz would have been right there and Poz would be able to come down and help. It would be a short gain. 

 

As for Gordon on the checkdown, he'd be one-on-one vs. Ramsey (you can see him already take one step towards Gordon after he passed his receiver and saw Gordon coming out). 

 

The more I look at this, the more I am confident its Gratz.

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Bottom line, IF that was truly GRATZTER'S zone.... He should of beeen benched and never seen the field again. Of course though, Coach Gussy was pleased with his effort, and aloud him to play the whole game. Probably went to coldstone after the game and kept tipping the tip jar with bubblegum to sing songs with the employees. Such a joke. 

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Bottom line, IF that was truly GRATZTER'S zone.... He should of beeen benched and never seen the field again. Of course though, Coach Gussy was pleased with his effort, and aloud him to play the whole game. Probably went to coldstone after the game and kept tipping the tip jar with bubblegum to sing songs with the employees. Such a joke. 

 

He was actually benched at some point in the game for Josh Johnson.

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He was actually benched at some point in the game for Josh Johnson.

What do you consider benched? The last series of a game? Gratzter played 39 snaps and the Joshy J played 4 snaps on defense. The Gratzter played 57% of the defensive snaps, believe me... him and Gus got some scoops after the game to celebrate effort. Also, it wasn't Benjamin on that play it was Tyrell Williams. 

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What do you consider benched? The last series of a game? Gratzter played 39 snaps and the Joshy J played 4 snaps on defense. The Gratzter played 57% of the defensive snaps, believe me... him and Gus got some scoops after the game to celebrate effort. Also, it wasn't Benjamin on that play it was Tyrell Williams. 

 

I would consider him benched if they took him out of the game and lined up someone else such as Johnson/Thompson/whoever in his place. The percentages don't mean anything since we have no idea what formation we were lining up the rest of the game..unless you want to chart every single play and look who is lining up on defense.

 

Believe you? Ok, Donald.

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My problem with the analysis is that after Ramsey releases the receiver no one picks him up. The guy is wide open running across the field. He is open for a sizable gain well before he even reaches Gratz's zone which is completely on the other side of the field.

 

Who is supposed to be covering the middle underneath? The only person who has position to cover that part of the field is Poz and he drops deep.

Yeah but he's running wide open across the field toughly 8 yards in front of the marker with what should have been 3 players strung out along the marker to rally to him.

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Doesn't matter. Grate would have missed the tackle anyways.

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I would consider him benched if they took him out of the game and lined up someone else such as Johnson/Thompson/whoever in his place. The percentages don't mean anything since we have no idea what formation we were lining up the rest of the game..unless you want to chart every single play and look who is lining up on defense.

 

Believe you? Ok, Donald.

I don't have to, google can. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

 

What I am saying from that PLAY forward he should of been benched, and he wasn't. Which blows my mind. 

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I don't have to, google can. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

 

What I am saying from that PLAY forward he should of been benched, and he wasn't. Which blows my mind. 

 

Stats. Percentages. Reading comprehension.

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Stats. Percentages. Reading comprehension.

It is clear our ideas of being benched is obviously different. To you, Phillip Rivers must of been benched because he didn't take the final snaps for the Chargers and Kellen Clemens did. 

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It is clear our ideas of being benched is obviously different. To you, Phillip Rivers must of been benched because he didn't take the final snaps for the Chargers and Kellen Clemens did. 

 

Please do not try and put words in my mouth. 

 

The link you provided shows that Gratz played 39 snaps, which is 57% of the total defensive snaps. It does not tell you however, how many of those snaps occurred after this play. Furthermore, it doesn't tell you how many opportunities he had that were taken away. If the Jaguars go base 4-3 late in the game since the Chargers are trying to chew clock, where is that reflected in your 39 snaps/57% percent statistic?

 

Nowhere.

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