There are times where Bortles' throwing motion is Tebow-like. No thanks. Give me Derek Carr.

---

I like Bortles, he's clutch but i saw his last two games and he was average against the powerhouse that is SMU and USF. His measurables will definitely help his stock and i can see him being picked in the top 10 because of it, not seeing why he should be picked first though.  I have him behind Teddy and Carr.

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If you put Bridgewater or Bortles on Fresno State, they put up more or less the same numbers with the same success as Carr.  If you put Carr on Louisville or UCF neither team would make a BCS bowl like Bortles did with UCF and Bridgewater would have done if not for Bortles.

 

Here's Derek Carr's offense:

 

Throw the 0

Fake throwing the 0 and throw the 9

 

Complex...

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I see tons of talent in Johnny Football. I also see bust potential. Boom or bust. Home run or three straight swinging misses. Screw it, I'm in. If Caldwell does take Manhole, then I'll completely trust him and defend Manziel till the death. Or until he burns out of the league

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"Expect for the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes."

 

What's the beef w Manziel? He looks more like a pro than anyone else. His autograph thing? Partying?


Teddy is a bigger potential bust.

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What's the beef w Manziel? He looks more like a pro than anyone else. His autograph thing? Partying?


Teddy is a bigger potential bust.

Pray tell what traits of his you have evaluated that grade as 'more like a pro' than anyone else? 

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What's the beef w Manziel? He looks more like a pro than anyone else. His autograph thing? Partying?


Teddy is a bigger potential bust.

not sure if serious...

 

hes by far the least pro ready qb getting a first round grade.

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I agree that Bortles = Tannehill.

---

<div>As for the question of being Johnny being 'pro-ready', let's at least agree on this Jaguars fans: He's far more ready for primetime, the big moment, the big game, and the 'big-stage', than Bridgewater, Carr, and Bortles, maybe combined. Just by the sheer fact that for the last 2-seasons Manziel is the only quarterback of those 4 who has been playing against top-teer competition, the best of the best, the 'big boys' in the major conferences, where the best defenses play and who send the most players to the nfl each year(not to mention that Johnny's been breaking records and winning heismans while doing it).
 
How then are these 3-other qbs, playing against much lesser competition that Johnny would sneeze at, considered more 'pro-ready' than Johnny? I mean sure, we can talk adnauseum about Manziel's size/durability/arm-strength. But those are all the same things teams like Texas, Florida, TCU, and others underestimated Manziel for when they offered his scholarships, but none as a quarterback. Hasn't he proven by now that those perceived limitations are in fact not limitations. He's faced the very best, in the very best conference, and done better statistically than any other quarterback in history whose tried. Sadly, something we haven't even seen the other 3-qbs even have a chance to try.
 
So you ask me honestly then: How did these 3-other qbs, from smaller conferences, who most haven't even seen their games since most aren't televised in primetime, suddenly jump Johnny come draft time on most people's big boards? Well the problem is very simple: We live in a quarterback driven/centric league, where many teams(including us) are starving for a franchise guy. But this creates a problem where the supply doesn't meet the demand, and from that we get something called 'reaching', in particular for qbs higher than they are actually worth(think the Gabbert-draft all over again). And suddenly, in this supply-and-demand fiasco, it seems some of us have gone mad.
 
We start saying things on our big draft-boards like: "Bridgewater, Carr, and Bortles will all go in the top 10, or at the very least in the first round". But when has that happened? Three small conference qbs going in the first round like that? Never that I can remember. I personally can think of only two qbs from small colleges(flacco and smith) who have gone in the first round in the last 9-years combined. Please don't reach for a small-conference guy just because they are there Jaguars fans. Because you see, it doesn't matter how good they've looked in the games, they are playing virtually against highschool teams. Perhaps ask yourself this question and it might help: How many safeties that Teddy played against this year will be in the nfl next year? How about Carr, how many defensive linemen did he face that will be in the nfl next year? Johnny's been doing what he does in the most nfl-rich training grounds in all of college football. 
 
And so what does 'pro-ready' mean to me? Well it certainly doesn't mean you fit the pro-mold requirements for size, arm strength, durability, or any of those things. Because if that's what you're looking for then, sign Gabbert to another 10-years. No, no; what Pro-ready means to me is that I have seen this guy with my own eyes already go up against the very best competition he possibly can, against guys who are playing at the highest level possible, who will literally be playing in the nfl next year. And in that way, if we are honest with ourselves, we will admit that Teddy, Bortles, and Carr have been playing in the minor leagues. Now that doesn't mean they won't be great someday(I especially think Teddy will be). But this talk of being ready for the pros is deceiving. The fact is that Johnny has went up against and quite simply destroyed defensive players in the SEC week in and week out, who many consider to be the future of the nfl. While Teddy, Bortles, and Carr have been carving up defenses, most of which will be working at Home Depot next year. Regardless, they are no less, and certainly no more ready for the pros than Johnny.
</div>

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I want 3 players. Clowney, Bridgewater, Manziel. Jaguars have the number 3 pick. Just give me one of those 3 at 3, and I'm happy.

 

My top 6 favorite posters on these boards

Deacon
Pirkster
Shack Del Rio
Haterade
Hurricane
Badger

holy crap homie, but when people say pro ready, i assume they mean, experience in a pro style offense and/or receiving plenty of snaps under center, going through progressions and making pre snap reads etc and knows how to read defenses to an extent, so basically anything required to succeed in a pro style offense.  Johnny will have the highest learning curve regarding pro style offenses of the 4 QBs mentioned.

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 Johnny will have the highest learning curve regarding pro style offenses of the 4 QBs mentioned.

Agreed.

---

I want 3 players. Clowney, Bridgewater, Manziel. Jaguars have the number 3 pick. Just give me one of those 3 at 3, and I'm happy.

 

My top 6 favorite posters on these boards

Deacon
Pirkster
Shack Del Rio
Haterade
Hurricane
Badger

I think Carr will have a higher learning curve, but either will have a huge curve.

 

And if all you have to do is play in a big conference and play big games to be pro ready why was/is Tebow considered a project?  He wasn't pro ready.

---

I think Carr will have a higher learning curve, but either will have a huge curve.

Well Carr played in a pro style offense for one season before the coaching change in Fresno, thats why i didnt think he'll have any problem adjusting, also he has the Senior Bowl to reacclimate himself with the pro offense. As for Johnny all he's known in college is an air raid/spread offense, so his learning curve is much much higher.

---

 

<div>
<div>As for the question of being Johnny being 'pro-ready', let's at least agree on this Jaguars fans: He's far more ready for primetime, the big moment, the big game, and the 'big-stage', than Bridgewater, Carr, and Bortles, maybe combined. Just by the sheer fact that for the last 2-seasons Manziel is the only quarterback of those 4 who has been playing against top-teer competition, the best of the best, the 'big boys' in the major conferences, where the best defenses play and who send the most players to the nfl each year(not to mention that Johnny's been breaking records and winning heismans while doing it).
 
How then are these 3-other qbs, playing against much lesser competition that Johnny would sneeze at, considered more 'pro-ready' than Johnny? I mean sure, we can talk adnauseum about Manziel's size/durability/arm-strength. But those are all the same things teams like Texas, Florida, TCU, and others underestimated Manziel for when they offered his scholarships, but none as a quarterback. Hasn't he proven by now that those perceived limitations are in fact not limitations. He's faced the very best, in the very best conference, and done better statistically than any other quarterback in history whose tried. Sadly, something we haven't even seen the other 3-qbs even have a chance to try.
 
So you ask me honestly then: How did these 3-other qbs, from smaller conferences, who most haven't even seen their games since most aren't televised in primetime, suddenly jump Johnny come draft time on most people's big boards? Well the problem is very simple: We live in a quarterback driven/centric league, where many teams(including us) are starving for a franchise guy. But this creates a problem where the supply doesn't meet the demand, and from that we get something called 'reaching', in particular for qbs higher than they are actually worth(think the Gabbert-draft all over again). And suddenly, in this supply-and-demand fiasco, it seems some of us have gone mad.
 
We start saying things on our big draft-boards like: "Bridgewater, Carr, and Bortles will all go in the top 10, or at the very least in the first round". But when has that happened? Three small conference qbs going in the first round like that? Never that I can remember. I personally can think of only two qbs from small colleges(flacco and smith) who have gone in the first round in the last 9-years combined. Please don't reach for a small-conference guy just because they are there Jaguars fans. Because you see, it doesn't matter how good they've looked in the games, they are playing virtually against highschool teams. Perhaps ask yourself this question and it might help: How many safeties that Teddy played against this year will be in the nfl next year? How about Carr, how many defensive linemen did he face that will be in the nfl next year? Johnny's been doing what he does in the most nfl-rich training grounds in all of college football. 
 
And so what does 'pro-ready' mean to me? Well it certainly doesn't mean you fit the pro-mold requirements for size, arm strength, durability, or any of those things. Because if that's what you're looking for then, sign Gabbert to another 10-years. No, no; what Pro-ready means to me is that I have seen this guy with my own eyes already go up against the very best competition he possibly can, against guys who are playing at the highest level possible, who will literally be playing in the nfl next year. And in that way, if we are honest with ourselves, we will admit that Teddy, Bortles, and Carr have been playing in the minor leagues. Now that doesn't mean they won't be great someday(I especially think Teddy will be). But this talk of being ready for the pros is deceiving. The fact is that Johnny has went up against and quite simply destroyed defensive players in the SEC week in and week out, who many consider to be the future of the nfl. While Teddy, Bortles, and Carr have been carving up defenses, most of which will be working at Home Depot next year. Regardless, they are no less, and certainly no more ready for the pros than Johnny.
</div>
 

</div>

 

 

The ol "level of competition" argument. What conference a QB plays in is irrelevant when evaluating him.

---

And if all you have to do is play in a big conference and play big games to be pro ready why was/is Tebow considered a project?  He wasn't pro ready.

Great point, and well-taken.

 

I think the way I'd answer that is to say that their styles of play were very different in the big games, and as such would and will translate differently to the NFL. That whereas Tebow's greatest selling point as a college player was in his sheer strength, determination, and his wrecking ball mentality to get those 3-or-4 yards on 3rd down, by being bigger and stronger than the opponent's D-line. Johnny's strongest point is his 'elusiveness', creativity, and athleticism to keeps broken-down plays alive.

 

And so while I don't think anyone thought Tebow was going to still be trucking over guys once he got to the in the NFL, and once he was no longer the biggest guy on the field. I do feel there is a strong possibility that we will still see some of the highlights and flashes of 'Johnny-football' on Sundays, that we've witnessed these last 2-years on Saturday. But in practical ways. No, no, he won't be running for 200-yards every game. But it will be the elusiveness that translates to the pro-level. And when the opposing team blitzes, or the play breaks down on the field, and us Jaguars are so used to seeing Gabbert or Henne just go down, or get sacked, or throw the ball away; I think we will see new kind of elusiveness, and improvising that instead of getting us negative-5 yards, gets us 10-more yards to a first down. And that's Johnny's strong-suit. Not running the ball down people's throats just to do it like Tebow did, but improvising long enough to literally break-down whatever defensive scheme the D-cordinator has come up with. And when that's done right, it's virtually unstoppable, as defensive mastermind Nick Saban would be the first to tell us.

---

I want 3 players. Clowney, Bridgewater, Manziel. Jaguars have the number 3 pick. Just give me one of those 3 at 3, and I'm happy.

 

My top 6 favorite posters on these boards

Deacon
Pirkster
Shack Del Rio
Haterade
Hurricane
Badger

The ol "level of competition" argument. What conference a QB plays in is irrelevant when evaluating him.

Well; yes and no.

 

If you're implying that it would be wrong to say that Tebow for example, is a better qb than Bortles simply because he did well in a bigger conference, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I really do.

 

But if you are suggesting that Bortles would have played the exact same way he did this year, that Carr would have thrown for as many yards as he did, or that Teddy would have looked as poised and confident in the pocket as he did, had they played against a higher level of competition(ie, Lsu, Auburn, Alabama, Missouri, etc), I would have to disagree. 

 

I mean think about it, you wouldn't allow that sort of 'disparity of judgment' anywhere else in any other practical situation. Like say you and I were playing a season in the MAdden game. You are playing on the very hardest setting, while I set my season to the easiest mode the game allowed. We both end undefeated, and I look at you and say that overall I think I'm a little better. You'd call me crazy and you'd be right.

 

The point is that all these guys we're talking about can obviously play football(no one's arguing that). But who can still play at a high level against the very best of the best is a whole other question. A question which Johnny has at least answered to the extent that he could in college; and a question Teddy, Blake, and Derek will have to wait to answer after an NFL team takes a chance on them.

---

I want 3 players. Clowney, Bridgewater, Manziel. Jaguars have the number 3 pick. Just give me one of those 3 at 3, and I'm happy.

 

My top 6 favorite posters on these boards

Deacon
Pirkster
Shack Del Rio
Haterade
Hurricane
Badger

I mean think about it, you wouldn't allow that sort of 'disparity of judgment' anywhere else in any other practical situation. Like say you and I were playing a season in the MAdden game. You are playing on the very hardest setting, while I set my season to the easiest mode the game allowed. We both end undefeated, and I look at you and say that overall I think I'm a little better. You'd call me crazy and you'd be right.

 

Nobody will argue that

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Would love to see the Jags get Bortles , looks like a Roethlisberger/Luck mix I think

---

Great point, and well-taken.

 

I think the way I'd answer that is to say that their styles of play were very different in the big games, and as such would and will translate differently to the NFL. That whereas Tebow's greatest selling point as a college player was in his sheer strength, determination, and his wrecking ball mentality to get those 3-or-4 yards on 3rd down, by being bigger and stronger than the opponent's D-line. Johnny's strongest point is his 'elusiveness', creativity, and athleticism to keeps broken-down plays alive.

 

And so while I don't think anyone thought Tebow was going to still be trucking over guys once he got to the in the NFL, and once he was no longer the biggest guy on the field. I do feel there is a strong possibility that we will still see some of the highlights and flashes of 'Johnny-football' on Sundays, that we've witnessed these last 2-years on Saturday. But in practical ways. No, no, he won't be running for 200-yards every game. But it will be the elusiveness that translates to the pro-level. And when the opposing team blitzes, or the play breaks down on the field, and us Jaguars are so used to seeing Gabbert or Henne just go down, or get sacked, or throw the ball away; I think we will see new kind of elusiveness, and improvising that instead of getting us negative-5 yards, gets us 10-more yards to a first down. And that's Johnny's strong-suit. Not running the ball down people's throats just to do it like Tebow did, but improvising long enough to literally break-down whatever defensive scheme the D-cordinator has come up with. And when that's done right, it's virtually unstoppable, as defensive mastermind Nick Saban would be the first to tell us.

 

If Tebow can't "out truck" the bigger more physical defenders in the NFL, then Manziel won't be outruning the faster more athletic defenders in the NFL.

 

Mike Vick in his prime, Manziel is not. He'll have enough athleticism to buy him some time if guys aren't open, but he won't be running like he does in college.

---

Well Carr played in a pro style offense for one season before the coaching change in Fresno, thats why i didnt think he'll have any problem adjusting, also he has the Senior Bowl to reacclimate himself with the pro offense. As for Johnny all he's known in college is an air raid/spread offense, so his learning curve is much much higher.

 

His footwork wouldn't be terrible if he'd actually benefitted from that pro-style scheme several years ago.

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