Had to work out if this is a TTR post or not.


I don't think its as complicated as you make out. Marrone deserves blame or praise for all the on the field stuff. It will be quite easy to see his work taking place.


For the off field stuff Coughlin is the head honcho and signs off on everything so he deserves the blame or praise.


Look at the Miami Heat. Pat Riley is the team president , Andy Elisburg is the GM and Eric Spoelstra is the HC. Pat doesn't do much draft stuff but he signs off on everything and has his stamp all over the organization. When people talk about the Heat the only two guys you hear about are the great work Spoelstra does or how Pat does running the team. Its the exact same structure as here.

 

I don't think it's complicated at all.  Just look at what people are already posting.

 

The "in Tom we trust" has already started.

 

The fire Dave/should have let him go with his boy Gus posts aren't even dry.

 

It's just simple observation.  If you'd rather not discuss it and try to dismiss it, I'm not sure what the motivation behind that attitude is.

 

If the rebuild goes slower than anticipated, is Dave the next guy on the chopping block?  Or should Tom bear the weight of the blame?  Is there a bigger issue with what Khan is doing, that he can't yet bridge the gap between successful business owner and successful NFL franchise owner?

 

If the turnaround is quick... is this all on Tom?  How will we know when Dave has turned the corner at GM if he's under the shadow?  Or, is it really about how Khan has turned the corner as an owner?

 

And where, oh where, will Marrone get his due?  Strictly wins/losses?  Or is there more to look for there?

 

Hang on, it's going to be a ride.  I don't know what kind of ride it will be, but it certainly will be a ride.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I don't think it's complicated at all. Just look at what people are already posting.


The "in Tom we trust" has already started.


The fire Dave/should have let him go with his boy Gus posts aren't even dry.


It's just simple observation. If you'd rather not discuss it and try to dismiss it, I'm not sure what the motivation behind that attitude is.


If the rebuild goes slower than anticipated, is Dave the next guy on the chopping block? Or should Tom bear the weight of the blame? Is there a bigger issue with what Khan is doing, that he can't yet bridge the gap between successful business owner and successful NFL franchise owner?


If the turnaround is quick... is this all on Tom? How will we know when Dave has turned the corner at GM if he's under the shadow? Or, is it really about how Khan has turned the corner as an owner?


And where, oh where, will Marrone get his due? Strictly wins/losses? Or is there more to look for there?


Hang on, it's going to be a ride. I don't know what kind of ride it will be, but it certainly will be a ride.

No I'm all good discussing it just giving my views.


When is Dave's contract up? Tend to think he only lasts as long as Bortles lasts but that's pure guesswork.


The draft will be interesting as Bullseye mentioned. The draft board will be put together as a team but come draft day who pulls the trigger?


Oh yes, it could end very badly. Tom and Marrone seem to get on fine now but if we start losing big you can be sure there will be blow ups between them. Neither seem like the kind to back down.

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No I'm all good discussing it just giving my views.


When is Dave's contract up? Tend to think he only lasts as long as Bortles lasts but that's pure guesswork.


The draft will be interesting as Bullseye mentioned. The draft board will be put together as a team but come draft day who pulls the trigger?


Oh yes, it could end very badly. Tom and Marrone seem to get on fine now but if we start losing big you can be sure there will be blow ups between them. Neither seem like the kind to back down.

 

Dave was recently extended, which matches the years for both Coughlin and Marrone, IIRC.  I agree that Bortles' outcome should weigh heavily on Dave's as well, although I'm fair enough to also consider the bigger picture.

 

The way Tom used to run things, is that he'd have ultimate veto/override after everyone's opinions were weighed.

 

I think a DE/RB pick here would signal heavy Tom influence.  Tom has signaled run heavy/return to run, and he was blessed with Fred (and actually wanted Enis.)  That would tell me Fournette could likely be his target.  OTOH, he went Stroud and Henderson in back to back years before his own rebuild was cut off short.  Perhaps he picks up where he left off?

 

Personally, I'm on board with either DE or RB where we pick and projecting who is expected to be available.  I prefer that to the S alternative.  I feel we'll get a much better DE/RB here than by deferring, but don't see a problem with picking up a S later at all.

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"You do your own thing in your own time. You should be proud."

I saw that presser and came away with the same perspective.

 

What is unclear to me are the roles each will have in the draft/college scouting.  Will TC defer to Caldwell's ranking of players, but just decide which player is ultimately taken at the slot?

If I had to guess, I'd say Caldwell will assemble his big board like he always does and then the "brain-trust"  of DC/TC/DM will go over it and reconcile any glaring  differences in  opinion. 

 

As Dave mentioned in (years past) interviews they will prepare for a number of different scenarios involving players being there or being off the board --  I think it is in these discussions that they will be able to find common ground should the actual ranking of prospects not match closely. 

 

And of course - I think it will ultimately come down to Tom having the ability to make the final call on draft day in they are not in a consensus of agreement. 

 

Looking at this draft, it is actually easy to imagine they could get on the same page pretty easily.  

(Because the draft is pretty deep at a few positions of need.)

The only potential hang-up is if taking a QB at some point is being discussed. That one could be potentially divisive. I'm optimistic that these guys can come away from this draft with a nice haul. 

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I feel like Solomon Thomas at 4 would be a reach. He's great but not top 5 great. Not when you potentially have Jamal Adams, Fournette or Allen on the board.

What does Allen do better than Thomas?

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What does Allen do better than Thomas?

Play for Alabama lol

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What does Allen do better than Thomas?

He's bigger, stronger, better technique and better against double teams. Thomas is faster, more explosive, less injury prone and plays with a crazy intensity.

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He's bigger, stronger, better technique and better against double teams. Thomas is faster, more explosive, less injury prone and plays with a crazy intensity.

That's a pretty good assessment. Allen would probably make a better full time 3 tech, but Thomas is more versatile and would be a better end

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If I had to guess, I'd say Caldwell will assemble his big board like he always does and then the "brain-trust"  of DC/TC/DM will go over it and reconcile any glaring  differences in  opinion. 

 

As Dave mentioned in (years past) interviews they will prepare for a number of different scenarios involving players being there or being off the board --  I think it is in these discussions that they will be able to find common ground should the actual ranking of prospects not match closely. 

 

And of course - I think it will ultimately come down to Tom having the ability to make the final call on draft day in they are not in a consensus of agreement. 

 

Looking at this draft, it is actually easy to imagine they could get on the same page pretty easily.  

(Because the draft is pretty deep a few positions of need.)

The only potential hang-up is if taking a QB at some point is being discussed. That one could be potentially divisive. I'm optimistic that these guys can come away from this draft with a nice haul. 

 

They said they all do their own evaluations, then they meet and compare all evaluations together, then make joint decisions from there...

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

Dave was recently extended, which matches the years for both Coughlin and Marrone, IIRC.  I agree that Bortles' outcome should weigh heavily on Dave's as well, although I'm fair enough to also consider the bigger picture.

 

The way Tom used to run things, is that he'd have ultimate veto/override after everyone's opinions were weighed.

 

I think a DE/RB pick here would signal heavy Tom influence.  Tom has signaled run heavy/return to run, and he was blessed with Fred (and actually wanted Enis.)  That would tell me Fournette could likely be his target.  OTOH, he went Stroud and Henderson in back to back years before his own rebuild was cut off short.  Perhaps he picks up where he left off?

 

Personally, I'm on board with either DE or RB where we pick and projecting who is expected to be available.  I prefer that to the S alternative.  I feel we'll get a much better DE/RB here than by deferring, but don't see a problem with picking up a S later at all.

Ah so basically Khan will be deciding on Daves future not Tom.

 

Whatever happens we are in a similar spot to last year in that whoever we pick at 4 is going to be a quality prospect. If the DE is there you have to snap him up I think. The dline and Oline will have the greatest impact on the team as a whole.

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They said they all do their own evaluations, then they meet and compare all evaluations together, then make joint decisions from there...

Those comments was specifically regarding the existing roster evaluation.  

 

Dave's comments when asked about the draft indicate he'll be preparing as he has in years past, but clearly they will be collectively coming to a consensus together at some point. 

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Those comments was specifically regarding the existing roster evaluation.


Dave's comments when asked about the draft indicate he'll be preparing as he has in years past, but clearly they will be collectively coming to a consensus together at some point.

Oh really? I didn't know that was the context it was used in. Interesting. Well thanks for the correction.


It seems at least on the surface that everyone is clicking and on the same page. I hope their collective knowledge results in some top notch moves.

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Coughlin when asked if winning will be a focus: "What the hell else is there? This is nice and dandy, but winning is what all this is about."

That's a pretty good assessment. Allen would probably make a better full time 3 tech, but Thomas is more versatile and would be a better end

Allen can play 3 out of 4 spots on DL.

And I'm not sold on Thomas seeing as he got a lot of action from stunts and loops...

 

which I didn't think was a big deal when it was pointed out that is how Fowler got his action...

and then I saw... Fowler not get a lot of action at the NFL level.

 

I think if Allen is there at 4 you take him.

We don't pass on a sure thing like that. 

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That's a pretty good assessment. Allen would probably make a better full time 3 tech, but Thomas is more versatile and would be a better end

I'd say Allen is more versatile than Thomas who is way to small to play inside in the NFL, maybe for a few snaps a game but other than that no. Allen is a fletcher cox type in that he can play DE just as well. I can't think of a guy like Thomas to compare him too.

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I don't know if I see Allen as more than a 3-tech in the NFL whereas Thomas could be a 3-tech on passing downs and could play DE.

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I'd say Allen is more versatile than Thomas who is way to small to play inside in the NFL, maybe for a few snaps a game but other than that no. Allen is a fletcher cox type in that he can play DE just as well. I can't think of a guy like Thomas to compare him too.

Thomas could rush from the inside on pass rushing downs and play strong side end in base IMO. 

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I think Thomas will be a better pro than Allen.

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Thomas could rush from the inside on pass rushing downs and play strong side end in base IMO. 

Yeah I guess no reason why he can't do that. I'd just worry about him being inside too much, watched the first few mins of the UCLA game and he gets driven a few yards back every time they run at him.

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Yeah I guess no reason why he can't do that. I'd just worry about him being inside too much, watched the first few mins of the UCLA game and he gets driven a few yards back every time they run at him.

Gotcha. 

 

Given our current rotation at DT, there's no reason he'd have to be inside any more than they wanted to scheme him there situationally.  Strong side end seems to be more of a fit IMO. 

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After watching Thomas I'd have to say I think I'd rather Malik Mcdowell over him. Maybe even over Allen to if his shoulder are that bad.

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